Getting two on the buzzer against a red

[notadriver]

Got to echo DaveNewcastles comments. My friends regularly try to tell me railways arn't safe. I then remind them that they happily drive everywhere. 8 people wake up everyday and go out in the car and do not come back.... So safety isn't really an issue here.

I've been told by on another forum that buses/coaches are safer than trains. I don't think so.

 

[VP185]

Does your employer feel the same way? If not, have you ever attempted to change things? Having staff operate a set of safety procedures which are different to the official ones is a problem, however unreasonable the official ones are believed to be.

I imagine in most rail companies the most minor of incidents turns into a full blown investigation and disclipnary. The guard hasn't done it deliberately and generally it acts as a bit of a wake up call.
If a guard has been repeatedly told about giving 2 on a red and he/she carries on doing it then things need escalating
I'm not jeopardising a colleagues career over one mistake in which no harm has been done and the guard realises there mistake (unless that guard has previously dropped someone else in it unnecessarily!)

 

[Starmill]

When I was let loose on the Class 323 simulator at Stafford I pulled up safely at one of the Walsall branch stations (poss Perry Barr). The instructors then tripped some relays just to set me a challenge. I went through the procedures, and reset.

They then gave me two bells. I pulled away, looked up, and suddenly saw the starter was 'ON'. Rapid brake application, and I (just) slid past the signal.

If only I'd seen this thread I'd have known they too were at fault!

There is a class 323 simulator? My god, why is the world so cruel.

 

[notadriver]

It's not a toy

 

[BestWestern]

I imagine in most rail companies the most minor of incidents turns into a full blown investigation and disclipnary. The guard hasn't done it deliberately and generally it acts as a bit of a wake up call.
If a guard has been repeatedly told about giving 2 on a red and he/she carries on doing it then things need escalating
I'm not jeopardising a colleagues career over one mistake in which no harm has been done and the guard realises there mistake (unless that guard has previously dropped someone else in it unnecessarily!)

That's a very reasonable assessment of the situation. Common sense tends to prevail, as you say provided that the person/people involved are suitably sobered (no pun intended) and aren't doing it on a regular basis.

 

[Starmill]

It's not a toy

That is why the world is cruel. If it were a toy, I wouldn't be unhappy.

I wouldn't want to use it as a toy though either really, but it's not as if I'm ever going to see it in a non-toy situation, so it doesn't really matter if it is one way or the other.

Add to that the fact that I'm never going to see it anyway, weather I consider it a toy or not and however I might have intended to use it, and I'm not sure you fully understood what I meant when you pronounced its non-toyishness :/

 

[Mojo]

Down platform at Wimbledon Park on the district line still has one

Signalling on this section of the District line is still operated by Network Rail though.

(Training video for interest http://www.railnetchannel.tv/avc-view.aspx?videoid=109&categoryid=)

 

[causton]

Signalling on this section of the District line is still operated by Network Rail though.

(Training video for interest http://www.railnetchannel.tv/avc-view.aspx?videoid=109&categoryid=)

Brilliant website - brilliant video! Worth it for the old liveries alone!

 

[6Gman]

That is why the world is cruel. If it were a toy, I wouldn't be unhappy.

I wouldn't want to use it as a toy though either really, but it's not as if I'm ever going to see it in a non-toy situation, so it doesn't really matter if it is one way or the other.

Add to that the fact that I'm never going to see it anyway, weather I consider it a toy or not and however I might have intended to use it, and I'm not sure you fully understood what I meant when you pronounced its non-toyishness :/

It lived in a portacabin in Stafford.

Good fun!

 

[bluenoxid]

I've been told by on another forum that buses/coaches are safer than trains. I don't think so.

I believe they are based on one of the measures of safety.

Whilst buses are involved in accidents, their weight makes any vehicle hitting them receive disproportionate damage. See the Gosforth Bus accident last weekend.

In addition, the c2000 deaths on the road are road fatalities.

 

[wilsontown]

I believe they are based on one of the measures of safety.

Whilst buses are involved in accidents, their weight makes any vehicle hitting them receive disproportionate damage. See the Gosforth Bus accident last weekend.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I can see this would make buses relatively safe compared to smaller vehicles, but I'd stilll rather be in a train in a crash. Modern coaching stock is very crash-worthy (I'm thinking of, for example, three generations of BR coaching stock flung all over the place at Colwich Junction with not a single passenger fatality, or a Pendolino rattling off down an embankment at 90 mph with only one fatality).

Of course, it also means that the existence of buses is rather unsafe for other road users...

In addition, the c2000 deaths on the road are road fatalities.

This is just a tautology, again I'm unsure of the point.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I find it surprising that there is not, as far as I am aware, an equivalent to Confidential Hazardous Incident Reporting Programme for the Rail industry. I would be very happy to be shown to be mistaken.

 

[Flamingo]

Google CIRAS! I'm not on a pc & can't figure how to drop a link in.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

http://www.ciras.org.uk/

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I was indeed wrong, and am very happy to be corrected.

Thanks for the replies and link.

 

[Southern Dvr]

I tend to stick my head out of the window or if on an Electrostar look on MITRAC to see what's happening with the doors. Should I see them closing I open a cab door. No interlock, no buzzer & when the guard calls me up unable to get interlock I just point out how fortunate it is as we don't have the road!

 

[TDK]

A collision in 2000ish at Lewes was a direct result of a Conductor giving 2 on the bell against a red and the driver taking it thus spadding and having the collision.

Not a direct result of the guard at all it was the direct result of the driver proceeding against a red, not seeting their DRA and moving the train, the guard did not move the train the driver did so the driver should cop the blame.

 

[BestWestern]

Not a direct result of the guard at all it was the direct result of the driver proceeding against a red, not seeting their DRA and moving the train, the guard did not move the train the driver did so the driver should cop the blame.

A very fair point, and an example of how even two sets of eyes can get it wrong. And, as we also know, even three sets can get it wrong. A constant warning and reminder to crews and dispatchers that you can never take it for granted.

 

[185]

I tend to stick my head out of the window or if on an Electrostar look on MITRAC to see what's happening with the doors. Should I see them closing I open a cab door. No interlock, no buzzer & when the guard calls me up unable to get interlock I just point out how fortunate it is as we don't have the road!

Good practice.. seen an old hand do that. I normally used to lock em up and await the green which some will disagree with.

 

[BestWestern]

Good practice.. seen an old hand do that. I normally used to lock em up and await the green which some will disagree with.

No problem with that so long as you don't get complacent! I will often do the same if we're passed departure time and just awaiting the road.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

To put it very bluntly, this is why we have procedures that are SET IN STONE the moment complacency sets in mistakes can/will happen I often have to remind myself that we can never take shortcuts and I say the same to any new starter it may be boring but Procedure, procedure, PROCEDURE! admittedly some days when you are trying to help an angry passenger or you have things on your mind, you can drift but you have to keep it in your mind is it really worth losing your job or someone getting hurt by taking an unneccesary shortcut? that mode of thinking has kept me clear so far, will it always? who knows but after a decade so far so good!

 

[9K43]

Stand on the platform/door and await for the signal changes from a red to a proceed aspect then give two on the buzzer.

 

[Tracky]

Good practice.. seen an old hand do that. I normally used to lock em up and await the green which some will disagree with.

We have a number of stations with guard operated TRTS plungers. If you dont lock em up first, you defeat the object at that location of the TRTS. For example one is at a station followed by a level crossing next to a hospital. The plunger came in to reduce the time the barriers were lowered and keep the road clear in case of emergencies.

 

[island]

Stand on the platform/door and await for the signal changes from a red to a proceed aspect then give two on the buzzer.

If only the local is open you're bound to have a latecomer show up on the platform demanding the doors be reopened for them, seeing as you're not leaving.

 

[BestWestern]

If only the local is open you're bound to have a latecomer show up on the platform demanding the doors be reopened for them, seeing as you're not leaving.

Indeed you sometimes do, any they are frequently disappointed!

 

[Smudger105e]

not setting their DRA

1963 stock did not have DRA fitted.

 

[wolfman]

1963 stock did not have DRA fitted.

correct,i used to put brakes into emergency ane reverser into EO or neutral.

 

[Smudger105e]

correct,i used to put brakes into emergency ane reverser into EO or neutral.

I guess you were a mixed traction Southern man, using the term EO

 

[wolfman]

I guess you were a mixed traction Southern man, using the term EO

yes,went on to the southern through redundancy and spent some time as a M/Tdriver.33s were good loco,s,73s a waste of space,71s not bad.