Getting to Sunderland - help needed

[insubordinate bo]

Afternoon gents,

I'm looking to book a journey to Sunderland and was wondering if I could call up on your assistance? I can go from Milton Keynes or Biggleswade as they are the nearest stations that look as though they go there.

My only problem is the price. A friend of mine said he did it from Stevenage (same line as Biggleswade I think but further south) for £25. And to get two singles. I have lost his number and he doesn't check his emails hence my post on here to see if you can help explain how you get for this price as I want to book asap.

I went on the trainline.com and it looks around £85 however when you click the line for cheaper/slower tickets there are some but it says N/A when you check for availability. is this normal? or do you have to book X amount of days in advance?

I am leaving on the 21st Nov and need to be there by about 2pm. and hopefully come back the same day. I have a young person's rail card if that helps?

Sorry about the demanding first post. I will hopefully be able to add something to the board one day. I’m pretty clued up on football if anyone has any queries/questions.

Many thanks

Insubordinate Boy
(not sure why my user name says bo but hey! )

 

[generalvegitable]

what I would suggest doing is from biggleswade or mkc to kings cross (if the latter you would need to use the underground or walk between euston and kings cross) then grand central to Sunderland (leaving kings cross at either 08:04 to arrive at 11:50 or 11:27 to arrive at 14:50)

 

[insubordinate bo]

hi, thanks for the reply and information. would you know how to obtain these cheap tickets at all? i've seen them listed on trainline.co.uk but can't seem to access them.

If it costs as much as £100 plus i might be better off driving.

 

[generalvegitable]

what I would suggest is splitting (buying multiple tickets that when used together will cover your whole route) and not using trainline.com (book through a TOC), so split at London, York, Thirsk, Northallerton, Eaglescliffe and Hartlepool, AFAIK it will make the trip much much cheaper

 

[John @ home]

I'm looking to book a journey to Sunderland. ... I can go from ... Biggleswade. ... I am leaving on the 21st Nov and need to be there by about 2pm and ... come back the same day. I have a young person's rail card

The National Express East Coast web site has Advance single Biggleswade - Sunderland fares available on a wide range of trains on Saturday 21 November for £23.80 each way, total £47.60. These fares are only available on the train(s) that you book. If you miss a train, you have to buy another ticket and you don't get a refund on the one you didn't use. This price includes NXEC's 11% online discount and is only available at http://tickets.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/nxec/en/JourneyPlanning/MixingDeck

If you prefer flexibility to choose your train on the day, an Off-Peak Return with a 16-25 railcard allows travel on any train on a Saturday, and doesn't have to be booked in advance. To Sunderland, this costs £61.05 from Biggleswade, £63.30 from Milton Keynes, or £60.15 from Bedford.

All the fares above are for routes avoiding London.[/QUOTE]

A friend of mine said he did it from Stevenage ... for £25.

The very cheapest fares are available at the quietest times, such as weekday lunchtimes, not when Sunderland are playing Arsenal at football.

I went on the trainline.com and it looks around £85

This forum advises people not to buy tickets via thetrainline. It charges debit/credit fees, which the train companies are not allowed to do on their own sites which generally offer the same fares. In this case, you also don't get the 11% NXEC online booking discount.

But you won't have to pay £85.

John

 

[insubordinate bo]

Thanks for the help John. I really appreciate it.

for future reference how would I get the tickets for this price? says n/a at the moment.

Link doesn't work.

 

[turbo mick]

just looked on national railway enquires website


Grand central railways are doing a return on the 21st nov back same day for £46.85 with 16-25 railacard

07.57 dep kx arr s/land 11.50 return 17.30 s/land arr kx 21.30.
those trains will be rammed with mackems i dont know if arsenal fans will bottle it

Iam off to the s/land- villa game tonight and travelling back to london kx on grand central tommorow morn i,ll ask the train manager it dosent cost me anything i travel for free working on the railways

 

[insubordinate bo]

just looked on national railway enquires website


Grand central railways are doing a return on the 21st nov back same day for £46.85 with 16-25 railacard

07.57 dep kx arr s/land 11.50 return 17.30 s/land arr kx 21.30.
those trains will be rammed with mackems i dont know if arsenal fans will bottle it

Iam off to the s/land- villa game tonight and travelling back to london kx on grand central tommorow morn i,ll ask the train manager it dosent cost me anything i travel for free working on the railways

Arsenal away boys will have it covered!

you're lucky to get free train travel.

 

[John @ home]

Link doesn't work.

Sorry the NXEC link doesn't work. It works for me, but maybe that's because I have registered to buy tickets on the site. Try http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/

for future reference how would I get the tickets for this price? says n/a at the moment.

The list of fares in the image you posted is quite a useful feature because it shows all the fares that appear in the Fares Manual. When you click on Check for trains, the computer looks for the availabilty of that particular fare between your origin and your destination on the date you have chosen by the route you have chosen (or by the fastest trains taking any permitted route if you haven't chosen a route). If there are no trains at that price on that day then it returns N/A.

I find the layout on the NXEC and similar sites more helpful because it shows the cheapest available fares for a larger number of trains on the one screen. Hopefully the link above will now allow you to compare the two systems.

The fares in the image you posted actually do exist. For example, the £10.25 fare is currently available on the 0728 train from Biggleswade on Thursday 17 December. But it is also available at £9.15 (with the 11% online discount) on that train from http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/

John

 

[yorkie]

Walk on fares:

BIW-PBO £5.30
PBO-YRK £19.45
YRK-HPL £7.25 (Route Direct)
HPL-SUN £3.65 *

TOTAL = £35.65

Saving £61.05 - £35.65 = £25.40

This is because shorter distance journeys are cheaper than longer distance journeys, per mile, because if you are travelling a longer distance the railways do not allow day returns to be available and basically try to defraud you into paying more. This scam is avoided by splitting the fare into chunks.

It's a bit like if restaurants charged more for complete meals, but less for the individual courses. Of course, only the rail industry would do such a thing!

Suggested timings:

Biggleswade 0801
Peterborough 0838

Peterborough 0851
York 1001

York 1026
Thornaby 1120

Thornaby 1137
Sunderland 1229


Sunderland 1730
York 1913

York 1936
Peterborough 2051

Peterborough 2117
Biggleswade 2152

Regarding previous posts, splitting at Thirsk, Northallerton, Eaglescliffe isn't helpful, and splitting at Eaglescliffe would prevent you using TransPennine as these trains do not call there. The York-Hartlepool fare is very good value and cannot be beaten by splitting further. Also I don't suggest going all the way into London - that's about 200 miles extra!

* £2.00 if you buy Grand Central only, arriving 1150 but this means leaving Biggleswade quite early! See post by Clagmonster below

 

[dk1]

Iam off to the s/land- villa game tonight and travelling back to london kx on grand central tommorow morn i,ll ask the train manager it dosent cost me anything i travel for free working on the railways

If your travelling on priv or boxes, be careful as GC do not accept ATOC free or privelage staff travel.

 

[clagmonster]

Yorkie, your suggested timings include a Thornaby-Sunderland train, which is presumably operated by Northern, yet you make a good suggestion of splitting the fares to include a Grand Central only Hartlepool-York. I would suggest:
Biggleswade 07:01
Peterborough 07:36-07:46
York 09:04-10:00
Sunderland 11:50

If you choose to do this using Yorkie's selection of tickets, all the tickets can be bought from the booking office at Biggleswade.

 

[yorkie]

If your travelling on priv or boxes, be careful as GC do not accept ATOC free or privelage staff travel.

In reality, they do accept PRIV tickets, and GC staff have posted here confirming this.

Yorkie, your suggested timings include a Thornaby-Sunderland train, which is presumably operated by Northern, yet you make a good suggestion of splitting the fares to include a Grand Central only Hartlepool-York. I would suggest:
Biggleswade 07:01
Peterborough 07:36-07:46
York 09:04-10:00
Sunderland 11:50

If you choose to do this using Yorkie's selection of tickets, all the tickets can be bought from the booking office at Biggleswade.

I amended the fare to £3.65 but forgot to amend the description, but the £3.65 fare is 'Any Permitted'. It's £2.00 for the GC only (with a railcard). GC must have the cheapest Anytime (without the 'Day' suffix) fares in the country!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Turbo, which train you getting?

A quick check of my roster reveals Im Rest Day on the 21st (PHEW!) so I won't have the 'pleasure' of the footie fans!!

 

[turbo mick]

If your travelling on priv or boxes, be careful as GC do not accept ATOC free or privelage staff travel.

No problems at all with boxes ive been travelling about 4 times no bother the lady train manager smilled and said good morning but i would always ask before your board.

Grand central staff are always pleasant

 

[insubordinate bo]

Yorkie, that was a great post. Thanks a lot.

Does walk on fare mean pay at the ticket office? Excuse my ignorance.

I rarely use public transport you see.

Thanks again.

 

[yorkie]

You're welcome! Yes, you can buy on the day of travel for immediate travel. In theory you can buy all tickets from Biggleswade ticket office, but you can buy them as you go along, it just saves queuing if you buy them all at once, although at York you could get the Hartlepool ticket from a ticket machine in York (located on the main concourse or in the ticket office - no queues) and you can buy the Hartlepool-Sunderland ticket on board the TPE or Nothern train (ask before Hartlepool or they may not offer the railcard discount). I would certainly advise getting the Peterborough-York ticket before Peterborough if you can as you don't have long at Peterborough in the event of delays. You could, alternatively, buy online or in advance for the same price. As long as you avoid using Thetrainline.co.uk you won't pay for postage, any of the TOC sites offer free postage and no credit card fees.

Isn't it crazy that Biggleswade-York return is £40.25, yet Biggleswade-Peterborough is £5.30 and Peterborough-York is £19.45? Biggleswade-York is too far for a day return!:roll:

Imagine if taxi drivers did that. "Can I pay for the first 30 miles seperately, then pay for the next 110 miles?" "OK mate, only give me half of what I normally charge for 140 miles"

 

[insubordinate bo]

you've really opened my eyes up to how these guys make money! i wonder how much money people waste everyday on tickets?

Are those prices return and including the young person's discount? Also say if there are four of us is there like a group saver discount? only one other has a young person's rail card but if those prices include the young persons discount i might encourage them to buy one! only £23.40 and worth it imo.

 

[dk1]

No problems at all with boxes ive been travelling about 4 times no bother the lady train manager smilled and said good morning but i would always ask before your board.

Grand central staff are always pleasant

Thanks, thats good to know. I was always told never ask as refusal often offends :cry:.

 

[yorkie]

you've really opened my eyes up to how these guys make money! i wonder how much money people waste everyday on tickets?

I'd guess at least £1 million per day, as I reckon it's over 5% of revenue. Possibly more like £2 million per day. Just think of all those businesses shelling out for full fare Anytime returns when just splitting it up could make a signifcant part of their journey "off peak". On the 0827 (or 0844, or 0927) peak service from York to Derby passengers unnecessarily pay £72.00 for an Anytime Return, when they could pay only £27.00 for an Anytime to Sheffield plus Off Peak Day from Sheffield to Derby. This means that Cross Country are defrauding their customers to such an extent that they are charging nearly 200% more than the correct fare for the journey. Yes, seriously, it's that bad.

Are those prices return and including the young person's discount?

Yes

Also say if there are four of us is there like a group saver discount? only one other has a young person's rail card but if those prices include the young persons discount i might encourage them to buy one! only £23.40 and worth it imo.

The best you could hope for is a GroupSave 4 discount with 4 people, but the only part of the journey that may apply to is Biggleswade-Peterborough. Avantix 03 says no fares but FCC are in the GroupSave scheme so you may be able to get it. This means 50% off (instead of 34% off with a railcard) for a group of 4 (ie, 4 tickets for the price of 2), but only as far as PBO.

 

[spoony]

Turbo, which train you getting?

A quick check of my roster reveals Im Rest Day on the 21st (PHEW!) so I won't have the 'pleasure' of the footie fans!!

If your working the 1907 back from Kings Cross you may have the pleasure of mine and a lot of other Sunderland fans company

 

[insubordinate bo]

Suggested timings:

Biggleswade 0801
Peterborough 0838

Peterborough 0851
York 1001

York 1026
Thornaby 1120

Thornaby 1137
Sunderland 1229


Sunderland 1730
York 1913

York 1936
Peterborough 2051

Peterborough 2117
Biggleswade 2152

Do I have to get singles where it goes from york to thornaby to sunderland? as on the way back it goes straight to york from sunderland so will i need to get a single to york from sunderland?

sorry for being thick here

 

[clagmonster]

No, the combination suggested via Yorkie is all on returns. The York-Hartlepool ticket is valid both direct and via Thornaby. I have copied Yorkie's split below, expanding out the station codes and including the ticket type you should ask for. All the fares are inclusive of the YP railcard discount.
Biggleswade-Peterborough cheap day return £5.30 (or £16 for 4 people with groupsave 4 discount)
Peterborough-York cheap day return £19.45
YRK-HPL £7.25 cheap day return (Route not Darlington)
HPL-SUN cheap day return £3.65

 

[yorkie]

Yes York-Hartlepool has been renamed, I forgot about that, to Route Not Darlington, it's the same thing effectively but a little less confusing (Route Direct isn't defined and many tickets routed Direct have been renamed in recent years, it appears to be slowly being phased out)

 

[insubordinate bo]

afternoon gents.

still struggling here to understand the split from york to sunderland as it's one change there and direct back. Am i right in assuming if you get the ticket from york to hartlepool then hartlepool to sunderland on the return journey that ticket would be valid if you get the train direct from sunderland back to york?

another thing that's troubling me is that york to hartlepool says one change on the booking site so that would be two in total from york to sunderland not one. and the one that leaves at 1026 doesn't get there (hartlepool) until 1202 according to nationalrailexpress whereas the suggested timing would have been 1120. Is thornaby the same as hartlepool as i gathered that from the above post? My geography is terrible.

Can't believe booking a train journey is getting the better of me :cry:

 

[yorkie]

afternoon gents.

still struggling here to understand the split from york to sunderland as it's one change there and direct back.

The number of changes doesn't affect anything to do with the ticket.

Am i right in assuming if you get the ticket from york to hartlepool then hartlepool to sunderland on the return journey that ticket would be valid if you get the train direct from sunderland back to york?

Yes, the train (along with all trains on the route) calls at Hartlepool, where you change from one ticket to the other.

another thing that's troubling me is that york to hartlepool says one change on the booking site so that would be two in total from york to sunderland not one.

Two trains, one change at Thornaby.

and the one that leaves at 1026 doesn't get there (hartlepool) until 1202 according to nationalrailexpress whereas the suggested timing would have been 1120.

You change at Thornaby at 1120 and the 1337 gets to Hartlepool 1202.

Is thornaby the same as hartlepool as i gathered that from the above post? My geography is terrible.

No. Thornaby is between Stockton & Middlesbrough!

Hartlepool United are in Division 1, people from Hartlepool are known as monkey hangers. Also the further north you get the harder it is to understand the locals!

Map of the North East

Don't worry I'm sure the monkey hangers think Finsbury Park is roughly the same place as Gravesend anyway

By the way there's a small team that play near Gateshead that think they're massive and are about £1billion in debt. Don't confuse them with Sunderland or the Sunderland supporters get angry.

 

[John @ home]

You change at Thornaby at 1120 and the 1337 gets to Hartlepool 1202.

yorkie means 1137, not 1337.

You arrive at Thornaby at 1120 and leave on a Hexham train at 1137. You get off that train at Sunderland at 1229.

You change from one ticket to another at Hartlepool at 1202, but you don't get off the train.

John

 

[NXEA!]

I've found a fair for £23.30 for you to Sunderland from Biggleswade albeit arriving at 15.15 changing at Peterborough and York. From Biggleswade to York it costs £17.80 and from York to Sunderland £5.50. You would depart Biggleswade at 11.01 and arrive at 11.38 From Peterborough you would depart at 11.46 arriving in York at 12.56. From York the train would leave at 13.30 arriving at 15.15. On the way back theres a train to York at 17.30 arriving at 19.13. From York you would leave at 19.36 and arrive at Peterborugh at 20.51. Finally from there the train for Biggleswade leaves Peterbrough at 21.17 and arrives at 21.52. The Sunderland to York leg costs £5.50 and the York to Biggleswade stretch, £20.15. All in all that comes to £48.95. The price includes the Railcard Discount. Hope this helps

 

[yorkie]

I've found a fair for £23.30 for you to Sunderland from Biggleswade albeit arriving at 15.15 changing at Peterborough and York. From Biggleswade to York it costs £17.80 and from York to Sunderland £5.50. You would depart Biggleswade at 11.01 and arrive at 11.38 From Peterborough you would depart at 11.46 arriving in York at 12.56. From York the train would leave at 13.30 arriving at 15.15. On the way back theres a train to York at 17.30 arriving at 19.13. From York you would leave at 19.36 and arrive at Peterborugh at 20.51. Finally from there the train for Biggleswade leaves Peterbrough at 21.17 and arrives at 21.52. The Sunderland to York leg costs £5.50 and the York to Biggleswade stretch, £20.15. All in all that comes to £48.95. The price includes the Railcard Discount. Hope this helps

I'm not sure how you can get SUN-YRK down to £5.50 each way? Also this is for a football match, 15:00 KO so 15:15 arrival isn't possible. Anyway your prices for AP singles are more expensive than for walk-on returns!

BIW-PBO £5.30
PBO-YRK £19.45
YRK-HPL £7.25 (Route Not Darlo)
HPL-SUN £3.65 *

TOTAL = £35.65

It's worth paying extra for walk-on returns compared to advance singles, but when it's actually cheaper to avoid AP fares, it's a "no-brainer".