Getting stuck behind a stopper

[Zoe]

Does anything actually get put onto the slow lines at Rutherglen? By the time you get to the four track section there are no stations so there doesn't seem that much benefit in having four tracks.

 

[asylumxl]

I know it's not a stopper, but having to slow a FGW HST to a stop before Airport Jnc towards Paddington, so that at Heathrow Express can go ahead really annoys me.

I seem to remember Rail had an article on how much diesel could be saved a year if this did not happen, and it was a horrendous amount.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Slight exaggeration there me thinks!

TPE services along the south route only seem to be late if it's a 170, or there has been a farce somewhere, such as pikeys helping themselves to a few hundred yards of cables ....

Not an exagerration, maybe my bad luck lol, but I work that route a hell of alot and we get delayed a heck of alot because the TPE is late, we then get held under the bridge until we get a road, its a pita

 

[Shaggy]

Quite often my homebound HST to Newbury (non-stopping from Reading) can get delayed behind a stopping service to either Newbury or Bedwyn.

Most frustrating trundling behind a DMU stopping at such hotspots as Midgham and Newbury Racecourse!

 

[tbtc]

Slight exaggeration there me thinks!

TPE services along the south route only seem to be late if it's a 170, or there has been a farce somewhere, such as pikeys helping themselves to a few hundred yards of cables ....

I don't know whether the 170s struggle to keep to the timings, but trying to cram all the passengers onto a two coach unit seems to add an extra few minutes to the dwell times at Sheffield and Manchester, which is sometimes the difference between getting the correct path and sitting behind something else...

...we are the poor relation of the TPE franchise

 

[ChrisCooper]

Slight exaggeration there me thinks!

TPE services along the south route only seem to be late if it's a 170, or there has been a farce somewhere, such as pikeys helping themselves to a few hundred yards of cables ....

Then again, most of the TPE South services are 170s.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Then again, most of the TPE South services are 170s.

no there not. there are two 170's operating all the rest are 185's. Rest of 170's do hull picaddily route

on a saturday and sunday its only one 170 diagram as it is a 4 car.

 

[Statto]

I've been on a late running TPE/EMT Manchester-Liverpool Express which got slowed down by the Ma-Liv stopper a couple of times, both instances, the stopper went into a loop just past Irlam to let the Express i was on through.

 

[ChrisCooper]

no there not. there are two 170's operating all the rest are 185's. Rest of 170's do hull picaddily route

on a saturday and sunday its only one 170 diagram as it is a 4 car.

Oh right, got the wrong idea then. Where do the Hull Picadillys go then (oviously not the South route)? I assumed last time I did it that I was lucky to get a 185 from Sheffield to Manchester, even if I did have to stand the entire way (and from Manchester to Bolton on the Glasgow), and that the 170 back was normal. Sounds like the 170 back was unlucky, more so as it ran late and I missed my connection so had to wait nearly an hour at Sheffield (and then that was delayed because the CDL was faulty, first not wanting to unlock, then not wanting to lock). Wasn't 4 car either, but a packed 2 car (I ended up spending the entire journey squashed between my own bags and someone elses dog, although I at least got a seat).

 

[ainsworth74]

Oh right, got the wrong idea then. Where do the Hull Picadillys go then (oviously not the South route)?

Manchester -> Leeds -> Hull

 

[scotsman]

One of the most irritating ones is getting held before Craigentinny because there's a train coming off/going on the Newcraighall line

 

[YorkshireBear]

Oh right, got the wrong idea then. Where do the Hull Picadillys go then (oviously not the South route)? I assumed last time I did it that I was lucky to get a 185 from Sheffield to Manchester, even if I did have to stand the entire way (and from Manchester to Bolton on the Glasgow), and that the 170 back was normal. Sounds like the 170 back was unlucky, more so as it ran late and I missed my connection so had to wait nearly an hour at Sheffield (and then that was delayed because the CDL was faulty, first not wanting to unlock, then not wanting to lock). Wasn't 4 car either, but a packed 2 car (I ended up spending the entire journey squashed between my own bags and someone elses dog, although I at least got a seat).

Aye, your unlucky to get a 170, although on a saturday as i said its 4 car so its quite nice when it turns up.

Problem is cos there so packed even in off peak they take forever to load unload all the time. They also have far inferior acceleration to the 185 far far far inferior.

Manchester sheffield is always packed in peaks, nothing you can do. Ive stood from penrith to sheffield on a 185 twice now.

 

[142094]

Oh right, got the wrong idea then. Where do the Hull Picadillys go then (oviously not the South route)? I assumed last time I did it that I was lucky to get a 185 from Sheffield to Manchester, even if I did have to stand the entire way (and from Manchester to Bolton on the Glasgow), and that the 170 back was normal. Sounds like the 170 back was unlucky, more so as it ran late and I missed my connection so had to wait nearly an hour at Sheffield (and then that was delayed because the CDL was faulty, first not wanting to unlock, then not wanting to lock). Wasn't 4 car either, but a packed 2 car (I ended up spending the entire journey squashed between my own bags and someone elses dog, although I at least got a seat).

South route is Cleethorpes - Donny - Sheffield - Manchester. 170s go Hull - Leeds via South Milford/Micklefield - Huddersfield - Manchester. Sometimes unlucky to get a 170 on a working through YOrk when there is service alterations or disruption. Not the best thing when they are just on 2 car workings, especially when you think that at a lot of the times during the day 2x 185s are needed.

 

[martinsh]

Aye, your unlucky to get a 170, although on a saturday as i said its 4 car so its quite nice when it turns up.

Problem is cos there so packed even in off peak they take forever to load unload all the time. They also have far inferior acceleration to the 185 far far far inferior.

I was going to ask about that. I was on a Picc - Hull 170 last week (first time I've used a TPE one) and it struggled to get over Standedge !

 

[ainsworth74]

I was on a Picc - Hull 170 last week (first time I've used a TPE one) and it struggled to get over Standedge !

Not really that surprising seeing as the 170s are widely considered to be underpowered, whilst the 185s have plenty of power due to the fact they have the same engines as the 125mph capable 22xs!

 

[MCR247]

Its quite shocking that in one TOCs fleet of trains, they have two types of train. On of them is still quicker off the mark even though it often runs with 2/3 engines and has two power notches locked OOU. (P2 and P7?)

 

[ainsworth74]

It is impressive/shocking. I've often wondered if Siemens could come up with a light weight trailer vehicle for the 185s what impact that would have on performance were it to be slotted into the existing 185s.

 

[Crossover]

Its quite shocking that in one TOCs fleet of trains, they have two types of train. On of them is still quicker off the mark even though it often runs with 2/3 engines and has two power notches locked OOU. (P2 and P7?)

Interesting...how come two of the notches (and out of how many?) are locked out of use?

I saw one of the other threads where the 170's were referred to as Turbosnails

 

[MCR247]

Because they are that overpowered they are not needed, and say a train left on notch 7, it would use more fuel, which isn't really needed.

185s have
P1 - P2 - P3 - P4 - P5 - P6 - P7

^^I think

 

[YorkshireBear]

Interesting...how come two of the notches (and out of how many?) are locked out of use?

I saw one of the other threads where the 170's were referred to as Turbosnails

I believe its because they are easily capable of 125mph running but are not allowed for various reasons? of which two i believe are weight and the fact the seats are too close to front of train? (ie no crumple zone)

Yeah they often are, very underpowered and also heavy which doesnt help them at all.

185's accelerate fantastically on 2 engines, went on one to york from leeds, engines completely off in last carriage, no noise or vibration at all felt absolutely fantastic, cos there ride comfort i think is top of the dmu's.

 

[MCR247]

The engines are capable of 125, but I think that is it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The engines are capable of 125, but I think that is it.

im just going on what i heard on here before not entirely sure.

 

[MCR247]

Well as you said it doesn't have a crumple zone, and bogies also probably wouldn't be up to it

 

[ainsworth74]

I believe its because they are easily capable of 125mph running but are not allowed for various reasons? of which two i believe are weight and the fact the seats are too close to front of train? (ie no crumple zone)

My impression was that it's mostly the lack of a crumple zone. Not sure about the weight, but the 185s could certainly do with going on a diet that's for sure so could well be restricted for that reason also. There are probably other things that would have to be changed, perhaps brakes and other mechanical bits and pieces.

went on one to york from leeds, engines completely off in last carriage, no noise or vibration at all felt absolutely fantastic, cos there ride comfort i think is top of the dmu's.

Have to agree with you there! I had a 185 from Hull to Leeds, sat in the un-powered vehicle and it was like travelling on a Mk4 or Mk3 coach (seat wasn't as comfy of course but otherwise no difference). Also kept time perfectly, in fact I suspect we arrived a minute or so early into Leeds.

 

[YorkshireBear]

My impression was that it's mostly the lack of a crumple zone. Not sure about the weight, but the 185s could certainly do with going on a diet that's for sure so could well be restricted for that reason also. There are probably other things that would have to be changed, perhaps brakes and other mechanical bits and pieces.



Have to agree with you there! I had a 185 from Hull to Leeds, sat in the un-powered vehicle and it was like travelling on a Mk4 or Mk3 coach (seat wasn't as comfy of course but otherwise no difference). Also kept time perfectly, in fact I suspect we arrived a minute or so early into Leeds.

I know a few places on network where weight affects them and got told by someone who works for NEtwork Rail that this was one of reasons. There limited between hull and leeds arnt they due to weight? Thats why 170s get used.

 

[tbtc]

I know a few places on network where weight affects them and got told by someone who works for NEtwork Rail that this was one of reasons. There limited between hull and leeds arnt they due to weight? Thats why 170s get used.

This is commonly said, but then 185s must run a few Hull trips (given the increased number of 170s on Cleethorpes services), so what happens then? Do they manage to keep to time on the Leeds - Hull section?

 

[Crossover]

From my understanding, the 185's have a higher axle loading, so are subject to speed restrictions on some parts of the line between Leeds and Hull. Maybe its compensated by better acceleration?

 

[MCR247]

The acceleration probably helps

 

[Crossover]

Because they are that overpowered they are not needed, and say a train left on notch 7, it would use more fuel, which isn't really needed.

185s have
P1 - P2 - P3 - P4 - P5 - P6 - P7

^^I think

The P7 being locked out of use makes sense, but why P2?

Also, on the control desk, can they physically not be placed into one of the disabled notches (well, for P7 this wouldn't be too difficult) or if it were to be placed into the disabled notch, would it just remain on the same power it was on previously?

 

[MCR247]

Not sure about that, sorry