Getting stuck behind a stopper

[Zoe]

There are quite a few locations where you can often be frustratinly stuck behind a stopper for some time. The two I immediately think of are King's Norton to Birmingham New Street via Selly Oak and Motherwell to Rutherlgen East Junction. Where else do you often get this?

 

[tbtc]

Drem - Edinburgh - on a later running East Coast/XC service (stuck behind the North Berwick EMU)

Parkgate (outside Rotherham) - Leeds on a late running XC Voyager (stuck behind the Sheffield - Rotherham - Wakefield - Leeds stopper)

These are two which happen often to me

Hope Valley (behind the "all stops" Pacer) can happen, due to tight timings, but I don't tend to do this route as often

 

[Failed Unit]

York - Edinburgh is extremely annoying when you miss you connection after getting stuck behind an XC service calling more often. Why the never let it pass where the can like Durham! I have even know the XC stop at Darlington but the East Coast which wasn't stopping still could not pass. The very annoying thing was the XC was late and made the East Coast late as well.
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Derby - Birmingham is common as well,

 

[Zoe]

Why the never let it pass where the can like Durham! I have even know the XC stop at Darlington but the East Coast which wasn't stopping still could not pass. The very annoying thing was the XC was late and made the East Coast late as well.

I really don't understand why they don't let trains not stopping at stations pass. If for any reason the Cornish Riviera is right behind an XC service after Newton Abbot, they will often force it to wait outside Totes while the XC stops there rather than just let it pass. Are these cases the decisions of the signalmen or are they told what to do?

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

On the Lea Valley, if everything runs to time (which it hardly ever does) then it's not too bad, but the up Hertford 9 times out of 10 delays the Stansted Express.


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[Mike395]

If the stopping trains on the Ashford - Canterbury West - Ramsgate line are out of sync, the limited stop trains that have just come off HS1 can be queueing behind a stopper - happens all too often when the 'classic' lines are messed up (usually through no fault of SouthEastern's however)

 

[Ivo]

If the stopping trains on the Ashford - Canterbury West - Ramsgate line are out of sync, the limited stop trains that have just come off HS1 can be queueing behind a stopper - happens all too often when the 'classic' lines are messed up (usually through no fault of SouthEastern's however)

Makes a change

Although not as bad as the line through Selly Oak (surely the biggest culprit of them all, and almost certainly solely responsible for Cheltenham to Brimingham being a 45 minute run and not a 40), the line to International (i.e. the Brum branch of the WCML) must come a close second in the Midlands.

 

[TomJ93]

Coming out of Coventry towards New Street if the 390 is late it tends to get stuck behind a stopper which it doesn't overtake at International.

 

[Oswyntail]

Doncaster to Leeds - 5 minutes late can treble at times. Particularly frustrating is when you are eventually allowed past the Doncaster-Leeds stopper only to get put behind the Sheffield Leeds stopper after Wakefield.
And, yesterday, the XC Voyager i was on was held up at Derby by 12 minutes. Just before it eventually left, the Matlock train was allowed out, turning 12 minutes into 26 minutes by Chesterfield. So, with the inevitable delays after Sheffield, a 31 minute connection time at Leeds became a -1 minute. Not exactly common sense.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

From crewe to euston when using virgin. London midland always cock up.
Ive used london midland from watford though and a broken down 313 held us up for a bit

 

[142094]

Disruption on the ECML over the past few days - on Friday was stuck behind a XC between York and Newcastle which had been allowed to depart from platform 5 a few minutes before our train was due. Followed it all the way, don't think we went past it at Darlington either. 30 minutes delayed into Newcastle.

 

[Geezertronic]

Coming out of Coventry towards New Street if the 390 is late it tends to get stuck behind a stopper which it doesn't overtake at International.

Frequently they cannot overtake at International due to a LM service that starts from BHI sitting in Platform 3 and the ATW service sitting in Platform 1

 

[linesider]

Disruption on the ECML over the past few days - on Friday was stuck behind a XC between York and Newcastle which had been allowed to depart from platform 5 a few minutes before our train was due. Followed it all the way, don't think we went past it at Darlington either. 30 minutes delayed into Newcastle.

On Wednesday on the same route I left York on an EC service and we were put straight onto the slow and headed north at a very leisurely pace until a XC service,that should have been 10 minutes behind us,overtook and so arrived in Darlington first.I wasnt to happy about that as i was supposed to change at Darlington for Durham onto that XC service!

 

[paul1609]

I really don't understand why they don't let trains not stopping at stations pass. If for any reason the Cornish Riviera is right behind an XC service after Newton Abbot, they will often force it to wait outside Totes while the XC stops there rather than just let it pass. Are these cases the decisions of the signalmen or are they told what to do?

Its because of the superior performance of a voyager over the riviera. If the riveira was let in front at Totnes the voyager would quickly catch it up despite the station stop. When they were first introduced the voyagers were timed at about 5 mins quicker than a HST on Exeter - Plymouth.

 

[Zoe]

Its because of the superior performance of a voyager over the riviera. If the riveira was let in front at Totnes the voyager would quickly catch it up despite the station stop. When they were first introduced the voyagers were timed at about 5 mins quicker than a HST on Exeter - Plymouth.

Are you sure it would make a difference in the case of the Cornish Riviera? Line speed from Totnes to Plymouth is generally 60 mph and the HST would already be doing at least 55 at Totnes. The Voyager would be starting from a stand and would get to line speed quicker but wouldn't be able to go any faster than the HST.

 

[martinsh]

Birmingham - Wolverhampton (in that direction). 2 stoppers per hour can cause havoc with the 7 fasts ...

 

[TEW]

Are you sure it would make a difference in the case of the Cornish Riviera? Line speed from Totnes to Plymouth is generally 60 mph and the HST would already be doing at least 55 at Totnes. The Voyager would be starting from a stand and would get to line speed quicker but wouldn't be able to go any faster than the HST.

There may also be passengers on the voyager who wish to connect with the HST at Plymouth to head down in to Cornwall. Keeping the Voyager in front on the HST protects their connection.

 

[Donny Dave]

Hope Valley (behind the "all stops" Pacer) can happen, due to tight timings, but I don't tend to do this route as often

It doesn't happen that often, just when Sheffield box decide to play silly buggers when the TPE service is a few minutes late :roll:

The EMT service to Liverpool can be delayed slightly around Chinley if the stopper is a couple of minutes late, but the timings along the Hope Valley are pretty well thought out so the stopper leaves Sheffield after the TPE, and clears Chinley as the EMT service is exiting Cowburn Tunnel. In the other direct, it's timed to arrive at Chinley as the EMT service reaches Cowburn Tunnel, and get to Sheffield about 6 mins ahead of the TPE.

 

[tbtc]

It doesn't happen that often, just when Sheffield box decide to play silly buggers when the TPE service is a few minutes late :roll:

The EMT service to Liverpool can be delayed slightly around Chinley if the stopper is a couple of minutes late, but the timings along the Hope Valley are pretty well thought out so the stopper leaves Sheffield after the TPE, and clears Chinley as the EMT service is exiting Cowburn Tunnel. In the other direct, it's timed to arrive at Chinley as the EMT service reaches Cowburn Tunnel, and get to Sheffield about 6 mins ahead of the TPE.

When it works it's a really good use of paths and ensures that a stopper can squeeze between the fast paths. However, like a lot of UK railways, when things go wrong there's little "plan B"

 

[YorkshireBear]

When it works it's a really good use of paths and ensures that a stopper can squeeze between the fast paths. However, like a lot of UK railways, when things go wrong there's little "plan B"

yes, when i unfortunately had a brakes and engine failure on a 142 at chinley, it was late and had to limp to sheffield and it was a very long difficult limp (i got on at hope already 50 late) the TPE behind was getting well towards an hour and a half late by sheffield (anmd the following one was 26 minutes late)

 

[Crossover]

I was on a Pendolino this evening from Birmingham International to New Street and I think we tailed a 350 along most of the line. We can have barely left International on a green (when I got on the train it was single yellow and we left not long after and the 350 was making a call at Marson Green too)

Had another odd one again this evening changing at Wolverhampton (rather than a long wait at International or New Street, I made it a short wait at each) - the 19:45 VT departure to Euston got slightly delayed leaving to allow another train to pass...a promptly replatformed ATW 158! I realised the reason was the VT was making a stop at Sandwell & Dudley, whereas the ATW was direct - was still a bit strange though!

The ultinate planning fail had to come last year at Manchester Piccadilly though. Boarded my TPE 185 service (towards Leeds/York - can't remember ultimate destination) 2 or 3 mins before booked departure, noticing there was a 323 stopper stuck in front. The 323 had a later booked departure time than the 185, so we had to wait for that to go before we could then depart (our train staff seemed a bit puzzled by it!), and we tailed it all the way down to Guide Bridge.

 

[Bittern]

Drem - Edinburgh - on a later running East Coast/XC service (stuck behind the North Berwick EMU)

Or as Clarkson called it - a "stupid commuter train".

 

[ChrisCooper]

I remember one time coming out of London on Anglia and due to delays (I think there had been an overhead problem) we were behind a FGW on the 2 track section north of Shenfield. I think we finally cleared it at Colchester (probably a Clacton). Got to Norwich to find they had held the Yarmouth train though, as Anglia often did.

 

[Zoe]

I remember one time coming out of London on Anglia and due to delays (I think there had been an overhead problem) we were behind a FGW on the 2 track section north of Shenfield. I think we finally cleared it at Colchester (probably a Clacton). Got to Norwich to find they had held the Yarmouth train though, as Anglia often did.

I'd be very surprised if you were stuck behind a FGW north of Shenfield, would have though it more likely to be FGE.

 

[Ivo]

Anything on the Wessex Main Line

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Drem - Edinburgh - on a later running East Coast/XC service (stuck behind the North Berwick EMU)

Parkgate (outside Rotherham) - Leeds on a late running XC Voyager (stuck behind the Sheffield - Rotherham - Wakefield - Leeds stopper)

These are two which happen often to me

Hope Valley (behind the "all stops" Pacer) can happen, due to tight timings, but I don't tend to do this route as often

We get so fed up waiting for the (normally always late running) TPE to the Airport or the EMT to Liverpool Lime Street, these so called "Expresses" always tend to run late, making Our Hope Valley Line services late luckily the passengers are used to it by now as it has been going on for years, we have a similar problem at Stoke on Trent but at least if Virgin/XC services are running late they can let us go and all we do is go into P3 at Macclesfield for 5 minutes or so, TPE always seems to be either late or cancelled, would be understandable if they had Northern's rolling stock, but brand spanking new 185's and 170's???

 

[Donny Dave]

TPE always seems to be either late or cancelled, would be understandable if they had Northern's rolling stock, but brand spanking new 185's and 170's???

Slight exaggeration there me thinks!

TPE services along the south route only seem to be late if it's a 170, or there has been a farce somewhere, such as pikeys helping themselves to a few hundred yards of cables ....

 

[Failed Unit]

It is the old network is too full. I remember years ago when Northern Spirit where on strike central trains timekeeping was nearly perfect on the strike days. The difference of removing a few conflicts.

 

[Zoe]

It doesn't seem logical to hold a 390 outside Motherwell to let a stopper go in front of it through to Glasgow but it is done. The result is you end up crawling all the way to Rutherlgen East Junction.

 

[me123]

Being held outside Motherwell is a common occurence, but I've never been stuck behind a stopper all the way to Rutherglen. Remember the local services go via Bellshill or Hamilton, whereas the WCML services avoid Bellshill. And I've been held at Newton once on a Hamilton service to let the Virgin train past.