Getting passengers to spread out along the platform

[Haywain]

on the railways the passengers have to take responsibility for their own safety

To a point, yes. Nobody is forced to go into an extremely crowded area. Take some responsibility for your own safety and comfort.

 

[Bishops]

In what way is it safer?

once again, so that the drivers don't have a short stop incident.

yes customers may have to walk up but in reality how many are just going to jump on the carriages that are right in front of them?

 

[Kevin51]

To a point, yes. Nobody is forced to go into an extremely crowded area. Take some responsibility for your own safety and comfort.

Are you serious? Train arrives at destination, you leave the train. Must remember, sit on train for 10 minutes waiting for crowds to subside. I see to subscribe the the Peter Hendy School of Safety Management. Stay at home and don't travel at all. On hang on homes aren't safe.

 

[Haywain]

Are you serious? Train arrives at destination, you leave the train.

Yes, I am. A few minutes (it's rarely that long, in reality) to avoid being pushed a shoved by the impatient makes my life much more comfortable and happy. You should try it.

 

[ainsworth74]

To a point, yes. Nobody is forced to go into an extremely crowded area. Take some responsibility for your own safety and comfort.

But as we know what people can see at the back of a crush (a busy but not overly or extremely crowded area) can be very different to what's happening at the front (people being suffocated and dying).

 

[JamesT]

Safety on the railways is very heavily regulated. The ORR served an improvement notice regarding Euston crowding in 2023, but a year later were satisfied. If it was actually unsafe, I'm fairly sure we would hear about the regulator requesting action.

 

[Taunton]

A particular nuisance is lengthy platforms for full length trains, with entrance at the back, but also used by shorter formations, which used to have "Car 3 stop" signs etc along the platform, but now are only provided with one set of DOO departure equipment at the far end, so when a short train arrives it can be beyond where the crowd are waiting.

I did actually miss a train some time ago at Farringdon because of this, when a 4-car 319 turned up it stopped way at the other end to me, by the time I'd walked forward doors were closed.

 

[saismee]

To a point, yes. Nobody is forced to go into an extremely crowded area. Take some responsibility for your own safety and comfort.

While I agree with you, passengers are unfortunately very stupid. There is a reason gateline staff are trained to manage crowding (not that everyone is good at it) and spot the signs of overcrowding.

Ipswich and Norwich have football grounds close-by, and the crowding can be bad enough at the (admittedly undersized) gatelines that they need to be opened to prevent crushes. It is frowned upon by management, but often the call comes from a supervisor or platform host who can see the people getting close to the edges of the platforms or queuing on the bridges. Revenue protection does not superseded safety, even if it's only unsafe because people are stupid/impatient.

 

[Dr Hoo]

We seem to be conflating two distinct issues:
1. Getting passengers to spread out along the relevant section of platform pending the arrival or departure of the service (whilst still being in the ‘right area’ for access to reserved seats, bike storage, ramp access, first class, train divides en route and whatnot); and
2. Queuing to leave a platform via ticket barriers (or just ‘bunching’ at a single exit).

I entirely agree that trying to prevent running, crushing, getting too close to the edges of platforms, etc. are important factors in their own right.

 

[Bikeman78]

I’ve seen a handful of GWR drivers with a fold over device (a bit like a desk calendar for anyone old enough to remember what they are!) that they display on the dashboard to remind them at a glance whether they have 4, 8 or 12 coaches (387) or 5, 9 or 10 (IET). If I were the Fat Controller, I would productionise these and give one to every driver, then re-set all the stop boards to be at the most convenient place for customers on every platform. Both simple and safe.

When driving a pair of class 507s, Merseyrail drivers often had an A4 sheet with a big number 6 propped in front of them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

I was at Gatwick on Friday evening. The person on the platform was doing what I thought was a great job of convincing people to spread out by explaining the train would fill the full length of the platform. Compliance was broadly good.

Unfortunately for him, and me, a late platform alteration meant his efforts were all in vain, as was clear on his face when it was announced. It wasn’t even clear to me why the alteration was made as the road was clear and no other apparently conflicting services except a Southern due after we departed. But I don’t doubt that control or the signaller had their reasons.

Gatwick has not been great since up fast trains started using platform 5. I once saw two consecutive trains replatformed from 4 to 5 and vice versa. I'm sure you can imagine the result. As a result, I will always loiter near or on the footbridge until I can see the route set on open train times.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

Has an increase in such incidents generated this? In my experience they are incredibly rare, although still undesirable of course.

In more than 30 years, the only stop short I'm aware of was a class 745 at Tottenham Hale. The doors only opened on the front eight coaches so I assume the driver used selective door opening after realising their mistake. The train departed normally after a minute or so.

 

[Smitham]

Reminds me of a platform announcement, somewhere on Southern. "The next train is not an advent calendar, you can open more than one door at the same time"

 

[mmh]

This was because SWR decided they couldn't trust the drivers to remeber how many cars the train had, so they removed the "8 car" stop board and all trains had to stop at the 10 car board, despite the fact that most trains were 8 car and the driving cabs of the 10 car trains were totally different, so it would be hard for a driver to forget what he was driving

Weren't class 455 (4 car) and class 456 (2 car) combinations also used to make up 10 car trains, so the same cab could be on an 8 or 10 car train? (Or 2, 4 or 6 cars!)

 

[etr221]

Yes, I am. A few minutes (it's rarely that long, in reality) to avoid being pushed a shoved by the impatient makes my life much more comfortable and happy. You should try it.

Which is fine until the driver makes a quick get away, closing the doors and shutting down the train. Before everybody had got off....

 

[boiledbeans2]

[...]

In more than 30 years, the only stop short I'm aware of was a class 745 at Tottenham Hale. The doors only opened on the front eight coaches so I assume the driver used selective door opening after realising their mistake. The train departed normally after a minute or so.

If the driver did realise the mistake before opening the doors, couldn't the driver drive the train forward to its correct stopping position before opening doors?

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Imagine me, as a leading railman, (yes, that long ago) train despatching at a midlands university town, having one minute to get rid of trains, being confronted many times at semesters end with a crowd of students with luggage all waiting patiently to get in one door. The solution? Blow whistle, open other doors, announce loudly, but not sarcastically, that they might like to use the freshly opened doors. Seemed to work. The fun I had.

 

[Alpine Rider]

All the key issues have already been mention in this thread.
Te problem is widespread and demonstrates how many travellers (especially those unfamiliar to a station) tend to cluster together following the they must know something principle..
So can this resolved (or even slightly improved) by things done by staff or changes to the stations? Well yes possibly.
Longer trains and consistent stopping locations helps a lot. How hard can it be to locate a waiting shelt close to where the train will actually stop? However there is probably no budget for such changes.

Announcements can also help, likewise clear and understandable signage can help. But as more travellers are so engrossed in their music or hand held device you will struggle to get any response from some - especially from the regulars who tend to have their chosen spot and won't move.

The Elizabeth Line provides a slight way forward with the central area platforms equipped with displays showing which coaches on the next train are full/empty. Some passengers take note - many don't. Actually that's fine by me as it means I have a better chance of bagging a seat.

 

[AM9]

Unsure about the St Albans to London bit as I don't visit them, but as the stations listed above are the normal stopping pattern north of London, you could feasibly board at the bottom of the steps in St Pancras or Bedford, and then be pretty much in line with every footbridge at every stop.

The new footbridge is welcome but unfortunately, it is angled so as to double back, particularly when exiting platform 4 (down fast) to the main exit. But the biggest safety problem at that station is crowding at the bottom of the stairs on P3 in the morning peak where every fast Thameslink train is preceded with a non-stopping EMR train passing through at 95mph on a crowded narrow and curved platform. It has been mentioned here before that drivers just have to sound the horn and pray when passing the blur of the crowd, often overflowing over the yellow line. The majority of regular passengers are well behaved there and stand where their alighting point is, unfortunately, St Pancras exit is at the centre of the trains, (owing to the requirement of the Harrington humps also aided by ATO), but the wide platform there aids clearance at busy times. The other core stations have front and rear exits so that helps distribute passengers.
I also find that the door opening markers on the platforms also work reasonably well in keeping boarders back to allow those exiting sufficient room, a benefit of having common rolling stock of just 8 or 12 car length.

 

[Dave W]

Interesting thread this. Seems to me that in most cases the railway is providing you as much information as possible and no one pays heed. Edmonton Green up side is a great example. Mix of 4 and 8 coaches, stairs and lift to platform, and the canopy, at the country end. The regular commuters are pretty au fait but your common garden punter doesn't seem to have a scooby.

For me with the pram wanting to be in that area behind the driver and have it easy at Liv St, I'm down to the 8 car stop every time, even though that's beyond the last of the old cameras and on to the extension which looks relatively out of bounds.

Your train is advertised as 8 coaches. There's a sign saying that's where an 8 car train stops. None of this is secret or even that technical*. I've been caught out by an unexpected short form precisely once (and in fact that's outnumbered by the unexpected 8 vice 4 which leaves me grumbling somewhere in the middle)

* Still though, don't tell 'em Pike.

 

[Bikeman78]

If the driver did realise the mistake before opening the doors, couldn't the driver drive the train forward to its correct stopping position before opening doors?

That occurred to me as well. Maybe the train did it automatically? I cannot recall if Stansted was pick up only at Tottenham at that time, in which case no one would be expecting to get off. To the best of my recollection, none of the doors on the unplatformed coaches opened.

 

[Merle Haggard]

If the driver did realise the mistake before opening the doors, couldn't the driver drive the train forward to its correct stopping position before opening doors?

On LNw/LM (from experience at Platform 5, Rugby) if the driver stops very short (4 car train on 11 Pendo. platform) a problem arises if they have stopped short of the 'grid'. It was a strike day and the (infrequent & busy) trains were crewed by 'management' so everything was done by the rule book, but resolution took a lot of conversations, phone and face to face/signal re-sets/wandering about. At least a quarter-hour's further delay.
I wonder why the driver didn't notice the crowd of customers waiting in the correct stopping place for a 4 car train, with help from the platform staff.

 

[styles]

Your train is advertised as 8 coaches. There's a sign saying that's where an 8 car train stops. None of this is secret or even that technical*. I've been caught out by an unexpected short form precisely once (and in fact that's outnumbered by the unexpected 8 vice 4 which leaves me grumbling somewhere in the middle)

* Still though, don't tell 'em Pike.

I'm not sure passengers should be relied upon to read signage which is actually meant for drivers. And on many parts of the network it doesn't actually say the number of cars, it may just say ZZ for the Caledonian Sleeper service driver to know where to stop for example.

The passenger also can't really be expected to know where the back of an 8 car train will end up, as that's not particularly easy for a casual user to estimate. And indeed, it depends what units are forming the train, as the length of a 158 is not the same as the length as an 800. On an 8 car service the difference would be about 24 metres, or roughly one full carriage length in difference.

I doubt many casual travellers even clock the signs for where certain trains should stop, let alone understand them, especially when there's different stopping points for different classes.

 

[Dave W]

I'm not sure passengers should be relied upon to read signage which is actually meant for drivers.

Fair enough - and I agree more proactive platform management would help - just being smug that it means I get a seat every time What is interesting though, is that on ANY given platform at ANY time of day, the number of people using a station for the first time, or even first in a long while, must be low - so you would expect from that familiarity even some basic pattern recognition much as you see regular commuters pick up.

I do give some credit to the view put very early in this thread that people seem to lose their confidence around transport. On work trips I've seen very highly paid people be flummoxed by "front [X] carriages only" - same goes in airports. Strange phenomenon really.

 

[Taunton]

The Elizabeth Line provides a slight way forward with the central area platforms equipped with displays showing which coaches on the next train are full/empty. Some passengers take note - many don't. Actually that's fine by me as it means I have a better chance of bagging a seat.

The Liz Line Core has a particular problem, which I'm sure seemed like a good idea at the time, of widely separated station entrances into each station, designed to serve the widest area above ground, leading down to both extreme ends of the very lengthy platforms, causing congestion for boarding the end cars but less usage of the middle. The supposed advantage of wide inter-car gangways to then move within the train is negated by these being the same areas counted for standing passenger provision - so of course passengers are standing in the way there.

You can of course move along the platform, but the combination of lengthy trains and frequent service means if you do that you'll probably miss your next train.

 

[styles]

Fair enough - and I agree more proactive platform management would help - just being smug that it means I get a seat every time

Yeah it is one of those things that those a little more in the know than the average traveller can benefit from, like some of the fares quirks, split tickets, rangers/rovers, etc!

What is interesting though, is that on ANY given platform at ANY time of day, the number of people using a station for the first time, or even first in a long while, must be low - so you would expect from that familiarity even some basic pattern recognition much as you see regular commuters pick up.

I think that comes back to my case-by-case suggestion above. Some stations, like many in the SE England, are mainly commuter stations; whereas the North Wales Coast Line, certainly for a few months of the year, is as much tourists as it is people heading to work. The problem is if you board at Rhyl heading to Llandudno for your holidays, you could get a 2 coach TfW class 197 service, or a 5 coach Avanti class 805 service. If you get a 5 coach service one year, stand further down the platform, then next time it's a 2 coach service and you stand further down the platform and then end up walking back up the platform to board, you're probably going to give up walking down the platform because you don't understand the system.

 

[BeijingDave]

The best solution will probably be what is already in operation in some places:

Have a big screen display that shows you which parts of the arriving train are most busy, do it as obviously as possible (a big red bar in the middle carriages and a small green bar in the emptier carriages) and ensure where the carriages will actually stop is clearly marked (instead of actually stopping half a carriage length away, which often happens).

Japanese drivers can stop where they're supposed to, so it's not beyond human or systems capability.

 

[saismee]

Yeah it is one of those things that those a little more in the know than the average traveller can benefit from, like some of the fares quirks, split tickets, rangers/rovers, etc!

I think that comes back to my case-by-case suggestion above. Some stations, like many in the SE England, are mainly commuter stations; whereas the North Wales Coast Line, certainly for a few months of the year, is as much tourists as it is people heading to work. The problem is if you board at Rhyl heading to Llandudno for your holidays, you could get a 2 coach TfW class 197 service, or a 5 coach Avanti class 805 service. If you get a 5 coach service one year, stand further down the platform, then next time it's a 2 coach service and you stand further down the platform and then end up walking back up the platform to board, you're probably going to give up walking down the platform because you don't understand the system.

That's an important point that I notice. Leisure travel is a lot more common now and passengers don't know what they're doing. They can't find basic information for themselves and rely on staff for figuring out which way is up.

It is reasonable to expect passengers to check the information screens for the length of the train, but they certainly won't. Then the next time they travel will be a different destination, months away, and they'll forget everything.

 

[AM9]

You can of course move along the platform, but the combination of lengthy trains and frequent service means if you do that you'll probably miss your next train.

Well, not quite. It takes about 20 seconds at an leisurely pace to walk the c.23m length of a Lizzy car, passing two double doors in the process. So even in the peak with platform reoccupation times of not much more than 1 minute, passengers can easily get to board less densely packed cars without risking missing a train. Every platform door has a live information board above, so it's not as if they are short of updated information about approaching trains.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

On Sunday (16th August) there was carnage at London Victoria when trespassers on the tracks at Balham (I think) caused trains to be cancelled and delayed on the route via Clapham Junction and East Croydon.
As a train was announced after a long interval, people piled onto Platform 16 and were 2-3 deep before the train even arrived. There was an announcement that made sense asking people ‘to wait on Platform 15 instead, as the train is very full and if you allow people to disembark quickly then it may reduce the delay to the service’.
Needless to say, barely anyone followed the advice and there was a mad scramble as people slipped between those getting off to grab a seat.
Against all my better instincts, I was one of the miscreants, as I’m over 60 and didn’t fancy standing all the way home.

 

[birchesgreen]

Always wondered why people don't move down the platform, and i'm talking regular commuters not occasional travellers. When i used to commute Birmingham-Worcester, on the train home (back in the days when a 2 car Class 150 that stank of damp was considered fine in rush hour) there were the same people who every night used to go up the stairs at Foregate St and stay there, then having to fight to get on the train in the crowd that had formed. Yet if you walked a short distance down the platform you could get on the train easily...

 

[Pixa]

Gatwick is particularly poorly setup for this. The space the escalators dump you in does nothing to encourage you to move elsewhere, and if you do move elsewhere, the platform is often narrow enough that if there's a family or group of people with some suitcases standing in that section you'll have to cross the yellow line to get past them. You get yelled at by the platform staff for not moving, then you get yelled at by the platform staff for moving! (I say yell, it's more just speaking assertively into a loud public address system).