Getting off train early (with a separate ticket)

[ianBR]

Hi...

I'm travelling from London to Manchester tomorrow on an advance single but didn't realise how much easier it would be for my friend to pick me up from Stockport than Picadilly

If I now buy a separate Manchester-Stockport single ticket is there any issue with me getting off the train early at Stockport (and not actually travelling to Manchester)?


Thanks

 

[island]

Officially you are meant to travel to Manchester and back but the chance of you having any issues is exceptionally low; just use your Manchester to Stockport ticket to exit if the ticket gates are in operation.

 

[eroded]

In theory this is not permitted, however 99% of the time you will probably be okay.

There was the case of the Durham Professor in 2010... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11420790

 

[Merseysider]

If it's a train that stops at Wilmslow I'd just buy a ticket from WML to SPT (£4.90) and then be "double valid" for the last section, plus there's no arguing about whether you need to go into MAN and back out.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I’ve done that before, how would anyone know?

 

[Merseysider]

I’ve done that before, how would anyone know?

One could get unlucky and have the ticket rejected by the barrier for whatever reason, and if there haven't been any arrivals from MAN recently (timetable gaps / cancellations / whatever) you could be in a spot of bother. Unlikely though somewhat possible.

Edit: alternatively just ask Avanti on twitter (hope you don't get one of the sarky ones) to confirm it'd be fine to get off a stop early.

I can just see it now... "Hi, please look at the destination on your ticket. Does it say Manchester? If so that's obviously where you need to get off. Of course."

 

[Cdd89]

If it's a train that stops at Wilmslow I'd just buy a ticket from WML to SPT (£4.90) and then be "double valid" for the last section, plus there's no arguing about whether you need to go into MAN and back out.

Would it not be argued that you need to present proof of a ticket entitling you to end or break your journey at WML?

(I’ve often thought of doing this and decided against due to the above concern!)

 

[Merseysider]

Would it not be argued that you need to present proof of a ticket entitling you to end or break your journey at WML?

(I’ve often thought of doing this and decided against due to the above concern!)

The ticket from Wilmslow to Stockport would be accepted at face value, providing the train had called there. Presenting a ticket from Manchester along with the masses alighting a train from London may get the gateline staff's spidey senses tingling if the barriers aren't playing ball

 

[Cdd89]

The ticket from Wilmslow to Stockport would be accepted at face value, providing the train had called there

Presumably not, otherwise nobody would get caught at gatelines for short-faring (But I agree that 99% of the time it would be).

My concern is around the premeditation and small risk of far more serious allegations rearing their head (why I had purchased this arrangement of tickets, which proves I knew the advance wasn’t valid to alight here…), which is why I’ve never done it and instead just presented the advance and hoped for the best (the “penalty” for which is at least fairly limited).

Maybe I’m wrong though and the double ticket option is lower risk!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti isn't a Penalty Fares TOC so the "penalty" is to excess up to an Off Peak or Anytime Single as applicable to the time. I'd not put a TOC past trying something on though.

Most likely they'll let you out as it wouldn't have avoided a higher fare.

 

[ianBR]

I guess I’d assumed that buying a separate ticket to double back from the end destination (Manchester) would always look better than buying one from an earlier station (Wilmslow)…. as clearly the railway will never miss out on potential revenue that way you are just saving yourself 20 minutes of additional journey time?

Also - I realise this is a hypothetical point but interesting to me - if the worst case penalty is to excess up to an off-peak single how would that work under this scenario…

My current ticket is an Advance single in Premium class. As far as I can tell there is no such thing as an off-peak single fare in that class it is only ever used with advance tickets. How would the excess be calculated?

 

[MrJeeves]

How would the excess be calculated?

Single fare, plus the standard premium upgrade fee, I would assume.

 

[plugwash]

I’ve done that before, how would anyone know?

Technically if they were paying attention they could see which staircase you came down. Trains arriving at stockport from the south will always arrive in platforms 3 or 4 while in normal service* trains arriving from Manchester always arrive in 0, 1 or 2.

* Siginalling wise trains from Manchester can terminate in platform 3A but afaik this only happens during engineering works or disruption.

 

[MrJeeves]

Technically if they were paying attention they could see which staircase you came down. Trains arriving at stockport from the south will always arrive in platforms 3 or 4 while in normal service* trains arriving from Manchester always arrive in 0, 1 or 2.

* Siginalling wise trains from Manchester can terminate in platform 3A but afaik this only happens during engineering works or disruption.

One could, potentially, have crossed over to that platform to look at an incoming train before then walking back over to the exit.

 

[Birmingham]

Presumably not, otherwise nobody would get caught at gatelines for short-faring (But I agree that 99% of the time it would be).

I think often people doing that get themselves caught out by purchasing a ticket from a station the train they clearly came off didn't actually call at, e.g. a ticket from Wembley Stadium to London Terminals off a fast train from Birmingham to Marylebone.