Getting off train early on Advanced ticket

[dmackay42]

I have a problem which I would like resolved before I travel at the end of the month. I have contacted South West Trains regarding this but have been unable to receive a proper reply.

Basically, some weeks ago I booked an Advanced ticket for myself and my wife from London Waterloo to Brockenhurst as we were staying overnight with parents before going on a cruise from Southampton the following day.

Due to illness, my parents are unable to allow us to stay, so we are now going to stay overnight at Southampton, which means coming off the train early at Southampton.

Now, I am well aware of the T&Cs regarding Advanced tickets and getting off the train early etc, so I purchased single Anytime tickets, which I have in hand, from Brockenhurst to Southampton for that day of travel.

Now, the question which I posed to SWT, was, can we "safely" get off at Southampton Central and use the Anytime tickets to exit the station, OR will we have to stay on the train to Brockenhurst, then travel back to Southampton using the Anytime tickets.

THe response I received from SWT was simply a definition of an Advanced and Anytime ticket and no help whatsoever to advising on this quandry!

Any advice appreciated.

 

[bb21]

The only advice I can give you is to ask the guard on the day if you can get off at Southampton, while presenting both tickets.

The key is to emphasise that you did not wish to travel all the way out to Brockenhurst and back unnecessarily, while avoiding saying that you wish to get off early (on your Advance ticket). I would be astonished if the guard insisted that you remain onboard all the way to Brockenhurst and back.

 

[gordonthemoron]

or just sneak off at Southampton

 

[bb21]

or just sneak off at Southampton

Why would you do that and risk the small chance of being caught when a better alternative exists?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Now, the question which I posed to SWT, was, can we "safely" get off at Southampton Central and use the Anytime tickets to exit the station, OR will we have to stay on the train to Brockenhurst, then travel back to Southampton using the Anytime tickets....

I don't think many would question you getting off at Southampton the first time and I don't think many would object to you doing so, but officially you would have to go to Brockenhurst and come back.

 

[dmackay42]

Whilst I do not want to be sneaking off.....I am wondering if the Anytime tickets would just simply let us through the barriers at Southampton?

 

[dmackay42]

Just had another email from SWT stating that we have to stay on the train, not alight at Southampton, and then get off at Brockenhurst, as per the Advance ticket T&Cs.ie not ending journey early

We then have to use our Anytime tickets to return to Southampton because if we simply get off at Southampton, we would not get through the barrier to exit as we would have broken the T&Cs of the Anytime ticket by not starting the journey at Brockenhurst!

Where is common sense?

 

[Urban Gateline]

The ticket (Brockenhurst to Southampton Central) will work the Barriers at Southampton Central so you shouldn't have a problem getting out of the station.

I doubt most Guards will remember who had which tickets so they won't notice someone coming off the train on an Advance ticket before their booked stop! Also you'd be VERY unlucky indeed to have an RPI catch you as you came off the train as those checks are normally only done on-train or at the Barriers!

I commend you on at least buying that ticket as many passengers don't and just get angry when they get told they can't "stop short" on their Advance tickets.

 

[dmackay42]

The ticket (Brockenhurst to Southampton Central) will work the Barriers at Southampton Central so you shouldn't have a problem getting out of the station.

I doubt most Guards will remember who had which tickets so they won't notice someone coming off the train on an Advance ticket before their booked stop! Also you'd be VERY unlucky indeed to have an RPI catch you as you came off the train as those checks are normally only done on-train or at the Barriers!

I commend you on at least buying that ticket as many passengers don't and just get angry when they get told they can't "stop short" on their Advance tickets.

Thanks Urban Gateline...the voice of reason. The reason I joined the forum was because of a knowledgeable post you put on last year, and I thought..they know what they are talking about.

Anyway, enough of the praise for the first sensible answer I have received regarding this problem. I had realised (and appreciate) that my buying this Advance ticket at the price I paid, would be unfair on SWT and by buying the ticket from Brockenhurst to Southampton, it was showing that I was not wanting to dodge out on paying any revenue to SWT.

There was a previous post about informing the guard on the train (Waterloo to Southampton) that I had to get off at Southampton and to show both sets of tickets. Do you think I should still do this anyway?

Cheers

 

[Urban Gateline]

Thanks Urban Gateline...the voice of reason. The reason I joined the forum was because of a knowledgeable post you put on last year, and I thought..they know what they are talking about.

Anyway, enough of the praise for the first sensible answer I have received regarding this problem. I had realised (and appreciate) that my buying this Advance ticket at the price I paid, would be unfair on SWT and by buying the ticket from Brockenhurst to Southampton, it was showing that I was not wanting to dodge out on paying any revenue to SWT.

There was a previous post about informing the guard on the train (Waterloo to Southampton) that I had to get off at Southampton and to show both sets of tickets. Do you think I should still do this anyway?

Cheers

Thank you, that's very flattering, I'm glad someone appreciates my posts!

With regards to informing the Guard, make of it what you will but I would personally not recommend that, you may end up opening a can of worms. (ie if you encounter a nasty Guard who then has an RPI contact meet you at Southampton, yes this may not be the case but I believe you are safer not saying anything!)

 

[34D]

I don't like giving tips to fare-dodge (which is sort of what this is) however I would consider going to whatever platform at Southampton Central the next train from Brockenhurst arrives at, and getting a coffee until it does, then going through the barrier at the same time as those people.

 

[causton]

I don't like giving tips to fare-dodge (which is sort of what this is) however I would consider going to whatever platform at Southampton Central the next train from Brockenhurst arrives at, and getting a coffee until it does, then going through the barrier at the same time as those people.

Or simply go and have a coffee at one of the outlets in the station, i.e. Upper Crust, then wander about and leave. Then nobody can know which service you came from!

 

[bb21]

Or simply go and have a coffee at one of the outlets in the station, i.e. Upper Crust, then wander about and leave. Then nobody can know which service you came from!

Why all the hassle when you can avoid all this by asking the guard for the permission no one in their right frame of mind will refuse in the first place, if one wants to cover his back?

I wonder how many guards on the railway network set out deliberately to make life difficult for the passengers, however I trust that someone working for the same company knows more than I do.

And sod's law says that even after all that hassle, you will run into the one person who remembered seeing you come off the London train who is standing at the gateline and your "exit pass" happens to have a corrupted magstripe.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I don't like giving tips to fare-dodge (which is sort of what this is) however I would consider going to whatever platform at Southampton Central the next train from Brockenhurst arrives at, and getting a coffee until it does, then going through the barrier at the same time as those people.

I wouldn't say it's fare dodging, it's just not completely abiding with the Advance ticket T&C's. Fare dodging in my mind would be buying a St Denys to Southampton Central single to get out of the barriers in combination with a cheap Advance ticket or Megatrain booking to a further station, that is much worse deprivation of revenue for the TOC.

 

[bb21]

I wouldn't say it's fare dodging, it's just not completely abiding with the Advance ticket T&C's. Fare dodging in my mind would be buying a St Denys to Southampton Central single to get out of the barriers in combination with a cheap Advance ticket or Megatrain booking to a further station, that is much worse deprivation of revenue for the TOC.

We can debate till the cows come home as to whether the TOC actually lost out financially without reaching any consensus. I think that was how a previous thread on this subject ended.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Just had another email from SWT stating that we have to stay on the train, not alight at Southampton, and then get off at Brockenhurst, as per the Advance ticket T&Cs.ie not ending journey early

We then have to use our Anytime tickets to return to Southampton because if we simply get off at Southampton, we would not get through the barrier to exit as we would have broken the T&Cs of the Anytime ticket by not starting the journey at Brockenhurst!

Where is common sense?

Common sense? Or wanting your cake and eating it?

Your agreement with the railway, through the contract you have agreed to, is to go to Brockenhurst and to then go from there to Southampton, so what did you really expect SWT to say? They can only give you the official line as they see it.

You had, and indeed do still have, the option of changing the Advance to a ticket that allows you to stop short at Southampton, common sense?

 

[Urban Gateline]

Why all the hassle when you can avoid all this by asking the guard for the permission no one in their right frame of mind will refuse in the first place, if one wants to cover his back?

I wonder how many guards on the railway network set out deliberately to make life difficult for the passengers, however I trust that someone working for the same company knows more than I do.

And sod's law says that even after all that hassle, you will run into the one person who remembered seeing you come off the London train who is standing at the gateline and your "exit pass" happens to have a corrupted magstripe.

The last bit made me laugh, but it's a possibility I guess, thats a cue to the OP not to keep the ticket near their Phone or anything else magnetic

I disagree that asking the Guard would be less hassle, how will verbal permission help? (assuming it is given) Written permission is much stronger if the 0.001% chance of an RPI catching the OP coming off the train occurs and they have to refer to "the man on the train" which is often not believable is it?!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Common sense? Or wanting your cake and eating it?

Your agreement with the railway, through the contract you have agreed to, is to go to Brockenhurst and to then go from there to Southampton, so what did you really expect SWT to say? They can only give you the official line as they see it.

You had, and indeed do still have, the option of changing the Advance to a ticket that allows you to stop short at Southampton, common sense?

I can't disagree with what you have said there, but you fail to mention the lovely £10 admin fee for changing each Advance ticket to a walk up ticket and then the complication of having the Brockenhurst to Southampton Central tickets refunded too!

Hopefully the OP knows that on this forum the relevant rules relating to the Railway are gospel and we try as much as we can to advise travel that follows the rules, this will always be the official line, but I stress to the OP that you make your own decision and it doesn't have to be what people on here suggest!

 

[bb21]

I disagree that asking the Guard would be less hassle, how will verbal permission help? (assuming it is given) Written permission is much stronger if the 0.001% chance of an RPI catching the OP coming off the train occurs and they have to refer to "the man on the train" which is often not believable is it?!

Perhaps not on the spot, however if the unfortunate does happen then there would be back-up available, even if the company had to chase it up with the guard.

All immaterial really, as both being caught at the gateline and encountering a nasty guard are events which are unlikely to happen. The OP is clearly happy to take his chances by just leaving the train there, so everything else is academic. I was only trying to watch out for him, but apparently this is not considered a "sensible" option.

Hopefully the OP knows that on this forum the relevant rules relating to the Railway are gospel and we try as much as we can to advise travel that follows the rules, this will always be the official line, but I stress to the OP that you make your own decision and it doesn't have to be what people on here suggest!

Thanks. I will bear this in mind.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I can't disagree with what you have said there, but you fail to mention the lovely £10 admin fee for changing each Advance ticket to a walk up ticket and then the complication of having the Brockenhurst to Southampton Central tickets refunded too! ....

Well the option was there before the op bought the extra ticket, so I don't really think the argument about the refund on that carries much weight, though I doubt there would be much of a refund on the single ticket(s) anyway.

As for the admin fee on the Advance, you're right, I didn't mention it, but the thought occurred that the single back to Southampton was probably cheaper than the difference in fares anyway so the admin fee, though existent, probably has no bearing in the decision making process in this case.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Well the option was there before the op bought the extra ticket, so I don't really think the argument about the refund on that carries much weight, though I doubt there would be much of a refund on the single ticket(s) anyway.

As for the admin fee on the Advance, you're right, I didn't mention it, but the thought occurred that the single back to Southampton was probably cheaper than the difference in fares anyway so the admin fee, though existent, probably has no bearing in the decision making process in this case.

I agree, it is all academic really. The OP has the choice of whether to 100% follow the rules of the Advance ticket by travelling to Brockenhurst and then taking a train back from there to Southampton Central on the Anytime ticket OR just getting off at Southampton Central anyway and exiting with the Brockenhurst ticket.

To BB21, I didn't mean to come across so condescending, all I meant to say was is don't we normally give advice on here which follows all the relevant rules and regulations?

 

[jb]

Written permission is much stronger if the 0.001% chance of an RPI catching the OP coming off the train occurs and they have to refer to "the man on the train" which is often not believable is it?!

Whilst acknowledging that this is all academic () is written permission going to happen, ever? What exactly is the guard going to write?

 

[bb21]

To BB21, I didn't mean to come across so condescending, all I meant to say was is don't we normally give advice on here which follows all the relevant rules and regulations?

I wasn't thinking along those lines, hence the smilie.

It is true that we will try and follow the rules as much as we can, within reason of course. In that case, if things do go wrong then you have covered yourself as much as you can.

No one has to take anything anyone says onboard, especially when in many situations there is no single "right" way to go about things.

 

[tractakid]

We then have to use our Anytime tickets to return to Southampton because if we simply get off at Southampton, we would not get through the barrier to exit as we would have broken the T&Cs of the Anytime ticket by not starting the journey at Brockenhurst!

What?! Since when did anytime tickets have to commence at the named station? If not using the anytime ticket at all was the problem, could the OP start short on the Anytime ticket to return to Southampton after alighting the stop after Southampton? Perhaps the most awkward half way point of all the suggestions.

Just out of interest, is the only problem with going via Brockenhurst the pointlessness of it?

 

[Urban Gateline]

If not using the anytime ticket at was the problem, could the OP start short on the Anytime ticket to return to Southampton after alighting the stop after Southampton? Perhaps the most awkward half way point of all the suggestions.

Erm no, that would still incur the same issue of breaking Advance ticket T&C's by getting off the booked train before the booked stop! Anyway most trains go fast from Southampton Central to Brockenhurst so that wouldn't be feasible.

Just out of interest, is the only problem with going via Brockenhurst the pointlessness of it?

If I remember correctly it's to do with time, the OP would rather not spend the extra time on trains (unlike most of us ) that such a Journey would incur.

 

[tractakid]

Erm no, that would still incur the same issue of breaking Advance ticket T&C's by getting off the booked train before the booked stop!

Of course, hence the 'if the problem is' given that he has permission to leave the train early.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Of course, hence the 'if the only problem is'. ie, he somehow got permission to leave the train early.

If that were the case, assuming the OP were to actually be able to get such permission, it would be even more pointless as none of the stations between Southampton Central and Brockenhurst are Barriered, so the only proof of the OP being on an eligible train into Southampton Central would be using CCTV or the RPI visually seeing them come off the train from the theoretically correct platform.

It's all very long-winded and academic though, my thought is still to keep quiet and stick to the original plan!

 

[MikeWh]

Just had another email from SWT stating that we have to stay on the train, not alight at Southampton, and then get off at Brockenhurst, as per the Advance ticket T&Cs.ie not ending journey early

We then have to use our Anytime tickets to return to Southampton because if we simply get off at Southampton, we would not get through the barrier to exit as we would have broken the T&Cs of the Anytime ticket by not starting the journey at Brockenhurst!

Where is common sense?

Quite!

I've nothing to add to the main topic of the thread because others have adequately covered my view, but I would sorely like to press SWT about breaking the terms of the Anytime ticket. Perhaps when you return and the issue is no longer relevant? Basically the Anytime ticket is valid to start short at any station between Brockenhurst and Southampton, none of which are barriered, so the gates at Southampton won't care whether you've come from Brockenhurst or not. They will retain the ticket as you can't use earlier validity after the last chunk, so there is absolutely no reason to reject at all.

 

[Urban Gateline]

so there is absolutely no reason to reject at all.

Except the dreaded "09" or "07 if the magnetic strip of the ticket has had it's data corrupted!

Definitely agree about the Anytime ticket, it can be used to start of finish at any station between the two stations named on it. I guess CS staff were using it as an excuse to dissuade the OP from getting off the train at Southampton without going to Brockenhurst first.

 

[yorkie]

I am wondering if the Anytime tickets would just simply let us through the barriers at Southampton?

They would, but to be legit, simply ask the guard if you need to double-back or not. If the guard states a double-back is not necessary, then you are valid as you are following instructions from rail staff.

Where is common sense?

Common sense will, almost certainly, be applied by the guard, which is what matters.

Common sense may not be displayed by call centre staff (not that I am necessarily blaming them - they may not be allowed to display common sense!), hence why in post #2 the advice from bb21 was to ask the guard, rather than ask call centre staff.

In fact someone did a similar journey on SWT, asked the guard, who unsurprisingly gave permission for the double-back to not be necessary.

 

[transmanche]

Common sense may not be displayed by call centre staff (not that I am necessarily blaming them - they may not be allowed to display common sense!), hence why in post #2 the advice from bb21 was to ask the guard, rather than ask call centre staff.

As a general rule, if you ask a bureaucracy if you can do something, it's easier for the bureaucracy to say 'no'. Nobody gets sacked for saying 'no'.

Common sense will, almost certainly, be applied by the guard, which is what matters.

Exactly. Don't ask the bureaucracy, that just gives them the opportunity to say 'no'. Don't ask the (phone) monkey. Ask the organ grinder.