Getting a job with Southern

[Ivor]

I will try & keep this brief, I’ve had a tip off from Southern Staff of a handful of jobs that are imminent (Gateline, CSA etc) all of which I have been doing the past year & a half via an Agency on behalf of Southern.

I have previously applied for 3 posts the past year...Gateline, Platform & part time OBS all to no avail eventually getting the email “thank you but you have not been successful due to other candidates with more suitable experience” etc, can’t remember exact wording but near as damn it that is it.

Plus in the Spring I was working at a main line Southern Station covering CS & I was approached by a lady from the Southern careers office who was a ‘secret shopper’ saying she was impressed with my work & gave me her business card to apply direct as some posts were happening, obviously that put a smile on my face but a couple of follow up phone calls & emails a couple of weeks later were met with silence.

Now I am not saying “look at me, I’m great, I deserve a job etc etc.....that’s really not the case.

My frustration lies in the fact that I’m not even making an assessment or interview, it’s not my right to an assessment or interview but I am concluding being ‘an oldie’ this is the barrier. I know any displaced current staff should have first refusal but I have seen a few Agency staff make it to Southern & candidates from outside the industry have been employed.

Any Southern staff out there (or other TOC staff especially GTR) who could give me some pointers/views please as frankly I don’t even think I will even bother to apply again.

Thanks all.

 

[HeritageSussex]

Despite it seeming like there is no point applying, you should always apply if that's what you want to do for work. There is no logical way to describe recruitment processes and you may be one of a hundred with the right skills for the job. The effort required to keep applying and the emotions associated with progressing through one stage, no updates on your application or rejection are all challenging.
As many say on this forum: keep trying as it will pay off one day when you are successful.
I don't work in the rail industry but have spent many years applying unsuccessfully.
Best of luck.

 

[Ivor]

Despite it seeming like there is no point applying, you should always apply if that's what you want to do for work. There is no logical way to describe recruitment processes and you may be one of a hundred with the right skills for the job. The effort required to keep applying and the emotions associated with progressing through one stage, no updates on your application or rejection are all challenging.
As many say on this forum: keep trying as it will pay off one day when you are successful.
I don't work in the rail industry but have spent many years applying unsuccessfully.
Best of luck.

Yes like yourself I’ve spoken to others who applied for railway work when not involved with the railways & even in the industry now via Agency are frustrated with not progressing after application.

It could well be the volume of applications, I’m not sure.

 

[Headhunco]

I will try & keep this brief, I’ve had a tip off from Southern Staff of a handful of jobs that are imminent (Gateline, CSA etc) all of which I have been doing the past year & a half via an Agency on behalf of Southern.

I have previously applied for 3 posts the past year...Gateline, Platform & part time OBS all to no avail eventually getting the email “thank you but you have not been successful due to other candidates with more suitable experience” etc, can’t remember exact wording but near as damn it that is it.

Plus in the Spring I was working at a main line Southern Station covering CS & I was approached by a lady from the Southern careers office who was a ‘secret shopper’ saying she was impressed with my work & gave me her business card to apply direct as some posts were happening, obviously that put a smile on my face but a couple of follow up phone calls & emails a couple of weeks later were met with silence.

Now I am not saying “look at me, I’m great, I deserve a job etc etc.....that’s really not the case.

My frustration lies in the fact that I’m not even making an assessment or interview, it’s not my right to an assessment or interview but I am concluding being ‘an oldie’ this is the barrier. I know any displaced current staff should have first refusal but I have seen a few Agency staff make it to Southern & candidates from outside the industry have been employed.

Any Southern staff out there (or other TOC staff especially GTR) who could give me some pointers/views please as frankly I don’t even think I will even bother to apply again.

Thanks all.

I used to work for One of the Govia brands , same thing working on stations customer service platform staff etc as agency funny enough I got offered a job to join full
Time contract I would say you should follow it up with the person that told you to apply my situation was similar good CS lead to a manager telling me to apply then I got the job , so my advice is follow it up now I’ve moved up and been a train driver for just under a year

 

[Ivor]

I used to work for One of the Govia brands , same thing working on stations customer service platform staff etc as agency funny enough I got offered a job to join full
Time contract I would say you should follow it up with the person that told you to apply my situation was similar good CS lead to a manager telling me to apply then I got the job , so my advice is follow it up now I’ve moved up and been a train driver for just under a year

Thanks for that.

Funnily enough as I returned home to my local station this afternoon the staff said they put my name forward today to the area manager & flagged to him that my application is in.

I know the area manager doesn’t have the final say but it can’t do any harm.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I can't speak for agency employees but I'm also an outsider and so far I've had several knock backs for railway jobs.

I'm ex-police with a multitude of skills and experience under my belt but I've learned very early on that being ex emergency services is definately not a golden ticket to rail jobs.

I've even been unsuccessful for a clerk's role with Network Rail that paid just over minimum wage!

The volume of applications for these jobs is extremely high and I fully appreciate HR people are under enormous pressure but I've been baffled myself why I've been rejected a couple of times.

Take some comfort that your not on your own and just keep applying for anything that pops up.

C J

 

[Hotdog]

My frustration lies in the fact that I’m not even making an assessment or interview, it’s not my right to an assessment or interview...

This is probably your biggest hurdle which you need to concentrate on. Until you pass these then the "secret shopper" or Area Manager won't have much influence.

I know a few people gone from agency to GTR.

Keep applying.

 

[Ivor]

I can't speak for agency employees but I'm also an outsider and so far I've had several knock backs for railway jobs.

I'm ex-police with a multitude of skills and experience under my belt but I've learned very early on that being ex emergency services is definately not a golden ticket to rail jobs.

I've even been unsuccessful for a clerk's role with Network Rail that paid just over minimum wage!

The volume of applications for these jobs is extremely high and I fully appreciate HR people are under enormous pressure but I've been baffled myself why I've been rejected a couple of times.

Take some comfort that your not on your own and just keep applying for anything that pops up.

C J

I thought based on my past applications it’s ‘ageism’ & I know illegal & let’s be honest none of us would know how a CV is perceived when it hits the inbox.

I know speaking to other railway people TOC/agency & feedback like yourself there isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ I know a few that have applied from outside of the industry & sailed through to being offered a position, equally there must be thousands like us who fall at the first fence.

Good luck!

 

[Ivor]

This is probably your biggest hurdle which you need to concentrate on. Until you pass these then the "secret shopper" or Area Manager won't have much influence.

I know a few people gone from agency to GTR.

Keep applying.

It’s definitely the biggest hurdle for the next step, yep keep on keeping on.

 

[Supertrains19]

I fell into the railway by chance, never having read this forum or even to be fair rode a train for many many years and I have to say now I’m in, I love it and wish I had as others I know have joined in there teen years and have 50 plus years to enjoy the railway life.

Im in the industry and just secured a new position for a different TOC, the recruitment process is long and has many stages and I fell a number of times whilst trying to secure this role for other positions, in the end when I look back this is the best outcome so do believe that things happen for a reason even on the railway, if you have the skills and a determination then I promise you, you will get there and hopefully love it as much as I do.

good luck

 

[amateur]

Could be because they would have to pay an agency fee, if they were to "poach" you. Whereas if they hire an "outsider" there's no agency fee.

 

[Ivor]

Could be because they would have to pay an agency fee, if they were to "poach" you. Whereas if they hire an "outsider" there's no agency fee.

You may be right, haven’t heard of that but I suppose we would never know, some have gone from agency to Southern but they seem to be very, very few.

 

[221129]

It sounds like your application needs improvement.

 

[Ivor]

It sounds like your application needs improvement.

Not sure that’s the case as my CV is set out correctly as is the completion of application form, from my long past career I was involved in appointing staff so I know the ins & outs of job applications that’s not to say I have any right over any other candidate to make it past the initial application.

The agency staff I know that have applied more than once like myself to Southern & other regional TOCs have not made it off first base.

The very few I/we have met who have progressed previously from agency staff with Southern not one has been over 30 & not one ‘older’ candidate has got anywhere near an assessment or interview & that's covering Gateline, CSA, OBS, driver or ticket office.

With that said I’m sure there are people out there that have made it & I know a few that have joined from outside of the railway industry & nothing wrong with that.

 

[221129]

With all due respect, the fact that you're not passing the sift tends to indicate that there is something not quite right with your initial application.

 

[Ivor]

With all due respect, the fact that you're not passing the sift tends to indicate that there is something not quite right with your initial application.

Well past year plus all Agency staff that I know or others that know others etc are falling down with our initial applications but comment taken on board.

 

[amateur]

You may be right, haven’t heard of that but I suppose we would never know, some have gone from agency to Southern but they seem to be very, very few.

Standard terms and conditions with an agency.

If you get a permanent contract, the employer would have to pay a fee. Or the other option is, you end your contract with the agency, and have to wait 6 months before you can be hired by the company direct, without them having to pay an agency fee. It's all in the small print.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/employers-poaching-temporary-flexible-agency-staff.106725/

 

[Ivor]

Just an update to ‘vent’ a little I suppose.

There have been available some 30+ positions available open to agency staff. These seem now to be filled, no assessments but straight to appointments by way of station staff recommendations & candidates known to management.

Anyway I along with a couple of others have not been approached following our interest/CV as requested (this is my 4th attempt in two years trying to cross to a Southern post)

Personally I know staff at three stations that that have recommended me to management for a position & I’ve had positive Southern Twitter passenger comments.

I do not wish to seem ‘woe is me’ I can only conclude being an ‘older worker’ this is against me. I know ageism is illegal & can never be proved, my other agency colleagues not considered or so much of a response are also ‘oldies’ & I must say harder working conscientious people you would be hard to find in the workplace.

I shall keep going with the agency work as I love what I’m doing but it’s hit & miss with shifts, two weeks ago 1 shift, last week 5, next week zero!

To the guys & girls getting a position with Southern it’s great & I sincerely wish them well.

 

[Emmsie]

Its not your age, I know people that have been hired in their 50's and 60's

 

[Ivor]

Its not your age, I know people that have been hired in their 50's and 60's

Fair enough then.

 

[Emmsie]

deleted

 

[baz962]

Its not your age, I know people that have been hired in their 50's and 60's

They would take on some older people , as they would raise suspicion. I also know a few older trainee's/ new driver's as was I. It's my personal belief that Govia have some form for age bias though , based on personal experience.

 

[Ivor]

So a ‘second wave’ of positions came up after Xmas (internal notification via Southern for agency staff to apply) & those jobs filled latterly yet myself & a few others who again didn’t even get an acknowledgement (we were told not to ‘chase’ managers who were appointing)

Again no assessments or interviews at all for those appointed which I find absolutely amazing & some Southern staff have also said never known lack of a proper process as the last two waves of positions, jobs seem to go to those that were known to managers at their relevant stations a few only working via the agency for a month or two.

I previously said in the thread good luck to those appointed pre Xmas & I say the same again but to not have a ‘proper’ assessment/interview process as is the norm through the GTR Careers site seems strange.

5 applications in under 2 years with recommendations from Southern staff too I have to definitely conclude ageism but I’ll say again it’s not my divine right to a job but feel the ‘process’ is broken.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Sorry to hear that mate

It does feel like a double smack in the chops at times.

Have you considered pitching yourself at another TOC and may be giving SWR a break for a while?

 

[Ivor]

Sorry to hear that mate

It does feel like a double smack in the chops at times.

Have you considered pitching yourself at another TOC and may be giving SWR a break for a while?

Trouble is don’t want to spend half the day travelling to/fro to reach another TOC as Southern is my catchment area.

Did you manage to get into ‘the business?’ as I know you were having problems getting through the door?

 

[Horizon22]

So a ‘second wave’ of positions came up after Xmas (internal notification via Southern for agency staff to apply) & those jobs filled latterly yet myself & a few others who again didn’t even get an acknowledgement (we were told not to ‘chase’ managers who were appointing)

Again no assessments or interviews at all for those appointed which I find absolutely amazing & some Southern staff have also said never known lack of a proper process as the last two waves of positions, jobs seem to go to those that were known to managers at their relevant stations a few only working via the agency for a month or two.

I previously said in the thread good luck to those appointed pre Xmas & I say the same again but to not have a ‘proper’ assessment/interview process as is the norm through the GTR Careers site seems strange.

5 applications in under 2 years with recommendations from Southern staff too I have to definitely conclude ageism but I’ll say again it’s not my divine right to a job but feel the ‘process’ is broken.

Are you certain these people weren't already in a talent pool or similar or transferred from elsewhere in Southern?

 

[Ivor]

Are you certain these people weren't already in a talent pool or similar or transferred from elsewhere in Southern?

Nope....everyone of them like me agency staff, displaced Southern staff had first shout at the jobs/locations quite rightly then on these two occasions remaining positions thrown open to the agency staff to apply.

As I say some only been working with the agency a couple of months but ‘lucky enough’ to have worked where relevant managers based or where these managers managed a few stations so obviously got to know people. In fairness a few taken on have worked a couple of years via agency (like myself)

Don’t want to sound like a moaning old git but had also applied 3 times past two years via Southern Careers site for jobs where there is the process of sift etc & been recommended this time around for one of these internal recruited positions.

Can only give it my best shot, onwards & upwards

 

[C J Snarzell]

Ivor

To answer your question, I'm on a fixed term contract at present working in control. Unfortunately, Wednesday's news is not good as I work directly for Arriva and as I'm on a FTC they could terminate my contract without notice. Therefore, I'm going to be keeping my nose to the ground across the career boards again like yourself.

CJ

 

[Ivor]

Ivor

To answer your question, I'm on a fixed term contract at present working in control. Unfortunately, Wednesday's news is not good as I work directly for Arriva and as I'm on a FTC they could terminate my contract without notice. Therefore, I'm going to be keeping my nose to the ground across the career boards again like yourself.

CJ

Good luck CJ