Germany recommendations for loco hauled or interesting trams

[zigzag]

I find myself with a bit of annual leave to take shortly and am considering a trip to Germany, a country that although I have visited on a number of family holiday I am not too familar with from a rail perspective and I wonder if anyone can help with some recommendations for either interesting loco hauled routes/workings or interesting tram routes/stock

I am flexible on where I travel in Germany but would like to ride and maybe photograph interesting trains and workings which may not be with us for too much longer or are well worth a visit due to the lien or stock being used

 

[jamesontheroad]

As discussed in another thread, Amsterdam-Berlin is an unusual non-ICE international route with a mix of domestic Dutch passengers in the Netherlands and longer distance travellers heading into Germany. I rather like the older German IC carriages.

From Hamburg, DSB (Danish railways) operate their charming and esoteric IC3 diesel multiple units towards the Aarhus and Copenhagen. Go as far as Flensburg and you’ll cross the Rendsburg High Bridge, after which the track loops around and under itself.

 

[Alfonso]

The Zurich - Munich Eurocities, with double headed diesels for part of the route and the SBB panorama cars will disappear and be replaced with pendolinos in December, though some of the route is bustituted for the electrification work. Vagonweb will show you what's normally used.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2020 ==

I find myself with a bit of annual leave to take shortly and am considering a trip to Germany, a country that although I have visited on a number of family holiday I am not too familar with from a rail perspective and I wonder if anyone can help with some recommendations for either interesting loco hauled routes/workings or interesting tram routes/stock

I am flexible on where I travel in Germany but would like to ride and maybe photograph interesting trains and workings which may not be with us for too much longer or are well worth a visit due to the lien or stock being used

Most IC andmaybe EC trains will be replaced in the coming years. In addition to the Zurich Munich mentioned, personally I'd go for any loco hauled train with a Central European catering car - good food and drink at very reasonable prices. Vagonweb is your friend for seeing what's on what, but the munich-prague and Prague to Berlin and onwards services spring to mind.

 

[James James]

I got the feeling there's quite a lot of interesting stuff around Berlin, because they get international trains from e.g. Prague or Warsaw operating with their respective stock. Although perhaps not that interesting: it is LHCS, but with a Taurus or Vectron on the front. The Prague trains do operate a fair distance in Germany (e.g. via Dresden), and some of those use Hungarian stock (continuing to/from Budapest), e.g.:

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2020 » DB EC » EC 172 Hungaria

www.vagonweb.cz

Zurich-Munich can be fun with the panorama carriages, and that route can be scenic (I believe there are multiple possible routes - the one I took 2 years ago was a diversion and very nice - I'm not sure if the normal route is as scenic).

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Hard to know where to start
The Rendsburger Hochbrucke, a gigantic metal construction with a spiral ramp on the north side, the south side is good too, one is surprised that the train suddenly starts climbing in what seemed to be a low-lying landscape
There are several other bridges over the canal

Rotenburg (Wumme) - Verden: a short but important third corner of a triangle
I read a report of a single double-decker driving trailer with an electric loco on that route, when I went there it was a double-decker ordinary coach with an electric loco at each end
Highest power-weight ratio ever?

Some ICEs with proper compartments are still in use

 

[eastwestdivide]

The IC train to/from Oberstdorf is double-headed diesels south of Stuttgart, including over the Geislinger Steige incline (although you don't hear much from inside the train!).
At the other end of the scale is the Karlsruhe tram-train system, partly sharing the tracks with ICE and huge container trains, e.g. the line between Karlsruhe-Rastatt on the Murgtalbahn tram-train route.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Many towns in the East, and not a few in the West, still have trams, low-floor units are being introduced but you may find some old Tatra units still in use
Naumburg had a ring tram round the old town, being restored bit by bit
The Gothaer Waldbahn is a tram that goes up into the hills, nearby is the Oberweissbacher Bergbahn, takes wagons up on an inclined plane

One I want to visit again sometime is the steam line Freital - Kipsdorf, restored after disastrous flooding

 

[popeter45]

EC6 to Hamburg is interesting, loco swap and control car removal at Basel, EC8 on the return leg also has the panorama car

 

[duesselmartin]

If you are in the east, Frankfurt Oder ist surprisingly diverse. EC trains to Poland Run loco hauled, so does the RE1 to Berlin, plenty of freight including 143s in DR colours.
The Oderbrücke freight yard still sees loco changes with PKP aus I learned in this forum.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Going to Frankfurt try to get a connection changing at Werbig, it is like Tamworth but a bit smaller

 

[LowLevel]

The Zurich - Munich Eurocities, with double headed diesels for part of the route and the SBB panorama cars will disappear and be replaced with pendolinos in December, though some of the route is bustituted for the electrification work. Vagonweb will show you what's normally used.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2020 ==


Most IC andmaybe EC trains will be replaced in the coming years. In addition to the Zurich Munich mentioned, personally I'd go for any loco hauled train with a Central European catering car - good food and drink at very reasonable prices. Vagonweb is your friend for seeing what's on what, but the munich-prague and Prague to Berlin and onwards services spring to mind.

Agreed - did Berlin to Prague the other year and spent the whole trip camped in the restaurant car demolishing black lager and schnitzel once you cross into Czechia happy hour starts with the lower taxes and subsequently very good prices!

 

[43096]

Agreed - did Berlin to Prague the other year and spent the whole trip camped in the restaurant car demolishing black lager and schnitzel once you cross into Czechia happy hour starts with the lower taxes and subsequently very good prices!

I rate ČD restaurant cars very highly - never been disappointed with a meal on them. ŽSSK restaurant cars are also recommended.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2020 ==

Some ICEs with proper compartments are still in use

The ICE1 sets have compartments. You can find out what type of train you're getting on DB Fernverkehr (IC/ICE services) on a couple of websites. Personally, I'd recommend https://dbf.finalrewind.org/ as for IC and ICE services it also gives the set formation including vehicle numbers: the link "Wagenreihung" is what you need from the train's schedule page.

 

[Meole]

Wuppertal is rather different of course.
There are a number of surviving daily steam service railways through the year.

 

[30907]

At the last count, there were elderly substitute trains operating on Ruhr suburban routes and routes around Stuttgart where Abellio has been having problems sourcing drivers/stock. I am not up to date though - I wonder if one of our Germany-based members could help?

I believe class 218 diesels are still working a number of routes, but increasingly replaced by 245s at least in Bavaria. Mühldorf was a favoured spot till recently.
The EC services (the Panorama cars are 1st class BTW) are definitely 218s and resume from 14 Sept on the scenic Kempten route. They are also on the Westerland ICs in the north.
Alex operate a variety of diesel hauled services north and south of Munich, modern locos but interesting mix of stock (there's no restaurant car on the Prague trains now).

 

[StephenHunter]

I got the feeling there's quite a lot of interesting stuff around Berlin, because they get international trains from e.g. Prague or Warsaw operating with their respective stock. Although perhaps not that interesting: it is LHCS, but with a Taurus or Vectron on the front. The Prague trains do operate a fair distance in Germany (e.g. via Dresden), and some of those use Hungarian stock (continuing to/from Budapest), e.g.:

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2020 » DB EC » EC 172 Hungaria

www.vagonweb.cz

Zurich-Munich can be fun with the panorama carriages, and that route can be scenic (I believe there are multiple possible routes - the one I took 2 years ago was a diversion and very nice - I'm not sure if the normal route is as scenic).

There are also the Moscow sleepers, but they're currently suspended until at least the next timetable change.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The overhead railway in Wuppertal is one of the most interesting, but it is only running at weekends now
Apparently the tyres on the new wagons wear much more quickly than expected
..
Stuttgart 21, a daring scheme to modernise the railway/a crazy project to free building land (take your pick) is worth reading up about

 

[30907]

Just spotted the reference to trams, sorry.
As well as those mentioned by LSWR Cavalier,
interesting East German systems include:
overland routes East of Berlin - Rahnsdorf-Woltersdorf, Friedrichshagen-Alt-Ruedersdorf, Friedrichshagen-Rahnsdorf Waldschanke, Koepenick-Alt Schmoeckwitz (the last two have standard trams), and Strausberg-Lustgarten (urban).
Nordhausen has bimode trams that operate over the Harz n/g line to Ilfeld.
Halberstadt has a small network, including a weekend-only roadside line to Klus, and is a nice little city (within easy reach of the Harz n/g).

If n/g steam interests you, all the ex DDR lines are interesting in different ways.

 

[duesselmartin]

If you are in the west, the Ruhr has many industrial lines linked to steel or open cast mines. Easy to reach from Cologne, Düsseldorf, Duisburg, Essen ect. Not far is the Wuppertal Schwebebahn.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Flixtrain on any of its routes.

 

[duesselmartin]

Flixtrain on any of its routes.

All intercity trains barr one line are loco hauled.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Double-decker IC trains are in service now, Dresden-Berlin-Rostock for example
Not been on one yet, are they much different to RE Dostos?
There was some trouble with ride/suspension at the start, the German media like bad rail news too, it was reported often enough

 

[43096]

Double-decker IC trains are in service now, Dresden-Berlin-Rostock for example

Those are the former WestBahn Stadler KISS EMUs. There are also other InterCity dosto sets with Class 146.5 and 147.5 locos running on several routes.

 

[superalbs]

Try and steer clear of the Intercity 2 double-deck fleets. Whilst the Stadler KISS ones are a little bit better, both are pretty naff compared to a classic IC train.

Not been on one yet, are they much different to RE Dostos?

The IC and RE Dosto are basically the same train, the only difference I can find in Second Class is the seat covers, proper tables, and the addition of a small recline. It's a rotten deal! The only difference in First Class is the colour of the head cushion(!!).

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The lighting in the KISS trains is awful, they just feel cheap
..
One favourite memory: sitting in the last coach of an IC or ICE snaking along the Rhein north towards Koblenz

 

[Segedunum]

Try and steer clear of the Intercity 2 double-deck fleets. Whilst the Stadler KISS ones are a little bit better, both are pretty naff compared to a classic IC train.


The IC and RE Dosto are basically the same train, the only difference I can find in Second Class is the seat covers, proper tables, and the addition of a small recline. It's a rotten deal! The only difference in First Class is the colour of the head cushion(!!).

The IC Dostos in First are pleasant enough though indeed not the same as the classic IC stock.

That said in four uses of the stock, one worked fine, one failed completely, one stopped talking to the loco for a while and one couldn't get door release at destination. So I try to steer clear!

If you want some older stock, I'm sure the Nürnberg S-Bahn Line S2 is still mostly run by BR143 and X-Wagen carriages.

 

[zigzag]

Incredible depth of information and advice, thanks all

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Please report back on your travels
Germany has changed a bit in the last 30 years, the east is shinier than the west

 

[Jamesrob637]

Please report back on your travels
Germany has changed a bit in the last 30 years, the east is shinier than the west

Such a pity those East Germans exchanged their Trabants for cars I'd love to have been in Dresden or Leipzig in the 90s. There was lots of hauled stuff then too.

 

[43096]

Such a pity those East Germans exchanged their Trabants for cars I'd love to have been in Dresden or Leipzig in the 90s. There was lots of hauled stuff then too.

Depends which Trabants you are talking about: the road version or ex-DR Class 143 locos, which are known as Trabants by enthusiasts!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

A few Trabants are still in daily use, many more are used in summer only, there are lots of Trabi-Clubs
I was there in the 1990s,Leipzig Hauptbahnhof, Colditz . ..
Drove my Avenger carefully on the cobbles, I was often overtaken by Trabbis, they went fast enough to glide effortlessly by