George Osborne in first class with standard ticket?

[kieron]

I just think it's a pity that Virgin felt unable to state that anyone is entitled to sit in First class on their trains without prior permission or a first class ticket, provided that they are willing to pay the cost of an upgrade.

Perhaps they're worried about confusing people whose tickets don't give them this option. Train fares are rather complicated, after all.

 

[jon0844]

Do you have any proof what so ever for that?

No of course not! I was being sarcastic, given what had been said over the WCML franchise fiasco. I really thought it would be quite obvious without having to put in a disclaimer or loads of smileys!

I don't believe for one second anyone was against Virgin (especially given the sale of part of Northern Rock to Sir Richard) but that was suggested in the papers, and if it was true then I can't see the Government being able to quickly contact Virgin to say 'Hey, say this'.

For one, unless the journalist made a point of telling them on the train that she was a reporter and was Tweeting it all to the world, the Government wouldn't have been able to get to Virgin's PR department quick enough anyway.

Isn't it funny how recently we had the pro Virgin supporters claiming Virgin was being dumped on by the Government. Now, it's Virgin Trains being up to no good, by lying for the Government - for an incident that could have been seen by any number of people who might have all seen, heard, filmed or recorded the incident as it unfolded.

 

[blacknight]

Wow, this story just keeps on changing!

How many people were in his entourage? If there were multiple aides and police, why did it only cost £160-£190 (depending on whether you take the Virgin stated amount, or that of the reporter that heard £160)?

Maybe because as you earlier post police officers go free when on duty.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So that would be a no? Is there any other confirmation that the escort for Osborne was not sat with/near him?

You could put in for Freedom of Information request. Will keep looking for report that states Met Police officer was male, then maybe truth will dawn not as if its George Osborne first offence of travelling on standard ticket seated in first class if reports are to be believed.

 

[ainsworth74]

not as if its George Osborne first offence of travelling on standard ticket seated in first class if reports are to be believed.

Though if he paid the upgrade as required he hasn't committed an offence he just done what many people up and down the country do every day...

 

[blacknight]

Though if he paid the upgrade as required he hasn't committed an offence...

According to reports on an earlier occasion he actually moved into standard when caught in first class rather than pay upgrade.

 

[Oswyntail]

According to reports on an earlier occasion he actually moved into standard when caught in first class rather than pay upgrade.

That is shocking! "Man gets asked to pay large upgrade fee and decides to travel standard instead". Ranks alongside "Man decides sirloin is too expensive and chooses rump", or "Housewife buys Tesco value beans"

 

[jon0844]

Maybe because as you earlier post police officers go free when on duty.

But what about the other aide? The photo shows the aide and George Osborne, but now there's possibly another one and the police officer? But the police officer was in standard..

I'm certainly confused here!

Why didn't the reporter see, or even speak to, the police officer that remained in standard? She surely had a chance to get far more information to help her story.

You could put in for Freedom of Information request. Will keep looking for report that states Met Police officer was male, then maybe truth will dawn not as if its George Osborne first offence of travelling on standard ticket seated in first class if reports are to be believed.

Why do other people have to do investigating to disprove what is being suggested by unnamed sources. Where has the latest thing come from about Mr Osborne having sat in first with a standard class ticket before? Are we to read that as him doing so without upgrading? I presume that's the idea, otherwise another incident of upgrading (and paying the appropriate upgrade) is another non-story. Two non-stories added together still equals a non-story.

That is shocking! "Man gets asked to pay large upgrade fee and decides to travel standard instead". Ranks alongside "Man decides sirloin is too expensive and chooses rump", or "Housewife buys Tesco value beans"

I love how all these extra reports are coming out now. Nobody thought it was a big enough scandal to mention George Osborne sitting in first class with a standard class ticket before, presumably because it wasn't a scandal.

No wonder men who are not charged with rape can find their lives destroyed. We have this 'no smoke without fire' mentality that means that even after a story has been found to be 'nothing to see here - please move along', we have people desperate to cling on to anything that might suggest something bad happened.

 

[table38]

I love how all these extra reports are coming out now. Nobody thought it was a big enough scandal to mention George Osborne sitting in first class with a standard class ticket before, presumably because it wasn't a scandal.

Well, as I said already, evidently the media didn't think it worth reporting Labour MP Karl Turner being abusive to a Hull Trains Guard last year, presumably because it didn't suit anyones agenda at the time.

Whereas the Osborne story fits the "Oh Dear, we seem to have lost the economic argument, so let's smear all Tories as 'toffs' or 'out of touch' instead" agenda.

 

[HH]

Ah, but it does show them up. Why would George be buying a Standard Class ticket in the first place? So that he can pretend that he isn't a toff (probably been instructed by Cameroon), used to a life of privilege. It seems that the inept Osborne isn't even able keep up the pretense.

"I want to spread privilege", states the fatuous Cameroon, clearly showing the benefits of an Etonian education. The whole point of privilege is that it's not available to most people.

Why not just be honest about it?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We have this 'no smoke without fire' mentality that means that even after a story has been found to be 'nothing to see here - please move along', we have people desperate to cling on to anything that might suggest something bad happened.

How very true...well said.

 

[DarloRich]

The Government would have a number of pre-planned responses, but Virgin Trains?

David Cameron hated Virgin didn't he? That's why he told the DfT not to allow Virgin to win at any cost.

But now Virgin and the Government can work together to quickly put out a release that says exactly the same thing, when it's impossible to believe that they both said the same thing because that's what actually happened.

No - I doubt VT had a pre planned response, however they are a VERY media savvy company so I expect their PR/Media team to be sh*t hot at dealing with anything that arises.

They may well have decided simply to quash the story in order to keep the bigger story, for them, in the public eye as part of their campaign to retain the franchise.
Alternatively there wasn’t another story!

 

[jon0844]

Ah, but it does show them up. Why would George be buying a Standard Class ticket in the first place? So that he can pretend that he isn't a toff (probably been instructed by Cameroon), used to a life of privilege. It seems that the inept Osborne isn't even able keep up the pretense.

"I want to spread privilege", states the fatuous Cameroon, clearly showing the benefits of an Etonian education. The whole point of privilege is that it's not available to most people.

Why not just be honest about it?

Frankly, given Cameroon isn't even in the EU, I couldn't care one bit what it says...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Gist is clear to me class war is ongoing.

This statement seems to be taken directly from the "usable quotes" section of The Morning Star.

I would recommend that you read "Manchester and the Textile Districts in 1849" by Angus Bethune Reach if you wish to put your statement into a context.

Looking at "Class War" from another perspective, look at the "oppression of the masses" that were caused from 1928 - 1937 in "Soviet Russia" when deaths by famine occurred as a result of state dogma being enacted

 

[jon0844]

No - I doubt VT had a pre planned response, however they are a VERY media savvy company so I expect their PR/Media team to be sh*t hot at dealing with anything that arises.

Perhaps I'll ask them one day, given the fact I'm connected to a few Virgin PR people on LinkedIn (and Facebook) - although Jim Rowe isn't someone I know or have ever met/spoken to.

Anyway, I fail to see any big cover up from the following;

Jim Rowe, a Virgin Trains spokesman, Mr Osborne had no direct communication with Virgin Trains staff.

An officer from the Metropolitan Police, escorting the Chancellor, alerted the train manager in advance that Mr Osborne did not have the correct ticket, Mr Rowe said.

Once on the train, the train manager informed the police officer that the Chancellor would have to pay an upgrade fare, a request which Mr Osborne's aide initially refused.

But after asking for a second time, the Chancellor's aide agreed that the extra £160 would indeed be paid.

If anything else had happened, like Mr Osborne refusing to pay or going into standard saying 'F*** **u I won't sit in here with you scummy plebs' then I am sure staff, or other passengers, would have been lining up to sell their story.

Anyone can sit in first and upgrade when there's a train crew. Try doing that on a FCC service and upgrading when you're met by revenue officers. THEN you've got a story. Mind you, if that happens to a 'normal' then the press will be coming out with their 'jobsworth' and 'little Hitler' headlines...

 

[table38]

Ah, but it does show them up. Why would George be buying a Standard Class ticket in the first place?

Err, possibly because the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) rules say he has to?

"I want to spread privilege", states the fatuous Cameroon, clearly showing the benefits of an Etonian education. The whole point of privilege is that it's not available to most people.

How much choice do you think the 13-year old David Cameron had as to where he was sent to school?

 

[HH]

Err, possibly because the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) rules say he has to?

Err, no. That's what he can claim. IPSA haven't tried to tell MPs how they should live yet.

How much choice do you think the 13-year old David Cameron had as to where he was sent to school?

That looks like a red herring if I ever saw one. The point is that despite living a life of privilege, he apparently doesn't understand the meaning of the word. I'm sure his old English Teachers are in a state of despair.

 

[table38]

Err, no. That's what he can claim. IPSA haven't tried to tell MPs how they should live yet.

Well, I was answering your question why he would buy a Second Class ticket. Sure, if he wants to make up the difference himself, that is up to him.

That looks like a red herring if I ever saw one. The point is that despite living a life of privilege, he apparently doesn't understand the meaning of the word. I'm sure his old English Teachers are in a state of despair.

The point is, you are blaming him for something he didn't have a choice about.

You might as well blame Ed Milliband for inheriting a £1.5M house.

 

[HH]

Well, I was answering your question why he would buy a Second Class ticket. Sure, if he wants to make up the difference himself, that is up to him.

And I was saying why he didn't, and that's nothing to do with IPSA. And it's certainly not because he can't afford it.

The point is, you are blaming him for something he didn't have a choice about.

No I'm not. I'm blaming him for abusing the English language. Something that he certainly has a choice about, with aides, speech writers and what not, who will certainly know what privilege means, even if poor Dave had a substandard education.

 

[Oswyntail]

Ah, but it does show them up. Why would George be buying a Standard Class ticket in the first place? So that he can pretend that he isn't a toff (probably been instructed by Cameroon), used to a life of privilege. It seems that the inept Osborne isn't even able keep up the pretense

a) because, as stated above, it's in the rules. or b) In common with just about every millionaire I know or have spoken to, he actually knows the benefit of treating money carefully and not splashing it around unnecessarily. Quite a good qualification for a chancellor, methinks.

"I want to spread privilege", states the fatuous Cameroon, clearly showing the benefits of an Etonian education. The whole point of privilege is that it's not available to most people.

Why not just be honest about it?

Duh - and because "it's not available to most people" he wants to spread it around. Presumably you wish to deny anyone the opportunity of privilege?

 

[table38]

...if poor Dave had a substandard education.

Wow, so one minute, he's an "Eton Toff" with a privileged education, and the next minute he's had a "substandard education" :roll:

At least you could try to be consistent with your rhetoric!

 

[HH]

Duh - and because "it's not available to most people" he wants to spread it around. Presumably you wish to deny anyone the opportunity of privilege?

You are as bad as Dave. You cannot "spread privilege". If everyone has it, it's no longer privilege. Duh to the power of n.

 

[jon0844]

I guess in a few years, we'll find another group to blame for everything.

We've blamed the blacks, the Poles, the Jews, the Asians, the muslims and now the rich/bankers, moving on to anyone that was unlucky enough to get a good education or has made a success of themselves.

Who will it be next?

 

[HH]

Wow, so one minute, he's an "Eton Toff" with a privileged education, and the next minute he's had a "substandard education" :roll:

At least you could try to be consistent with your rhetoric!

After the Red Herring now we have the Straw Man. People should be getting a good education in logical fallacies from you today.

For your benefit I will share the meaning of sarcasm, "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; usually conveyed through irony or understatement".

 

[Oswyntail]

Gist is clear to me class war is ongoing

- the idea of there being a "class war" is merely the inane dribblings of Her Majesty's Opposition, who apparently lack the intellectual clout actually to offer effective opposition.

... why have close protection officer if they are travelling in another coach...

It does strike me that we are all assuming that the young lady laughing at the "Milliband" DVD with George is not also the police officer, and possibly the "aide" who therefore refused to pay the upgrade for herself on teh grounds that she was on duty.

 

[HH]

I guess in a few years, we'll find another group to blame for everything.

We've blamed the blacks, the Poles, the Jews, the Asians, the muslims and now the rich/bankers, moving on to anyone that was unlucky enough to get a good education or has made a success of themselves.

Who will it be next?

You're missing the point. Go back to my original post. It's not about people being privileged, it's about them trying to pretend that they're not, for political gain; and about how they keep tripping over the contradictions.

 

[table38]

After the Red Herring now we have the Straw Man. People should be getting a good education in logical fallacies from you today.

Well, I'm not an expert, but surely it's only a "Straw Man" agrument if I'd accused you of saying something you didn't, rather than quoting you as I have done.

Still, I guess it's a useful diversion when you can't make a more intelligent contribution

 

[Oswyntail]

You are as bad as Dave. You cannot "spread privilege". If everyone has it, it's no longer privilege. Duh to the power of n.

Yes indeed - so Mr Cameron is outlining his desire to get rid of privilege, and you are opposing it? Duh infinite!

 

[HH]

Well, I'm not an expert, but surely it's only a "Straw Man" agrument if I'd accused you of saying something you didn't, rather than quoting you as I have done.

No. The point is that it has nothing to do with what we were arguing about initially.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes indeed - so Mr Cameron is outlining his desire to get rid of privilege, and you are opposing it? Duh infinite!

No he isn't. He said nothing about getting rid of it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

From some of the (off-thread) postings that have been made upon this thread. it would appear that the views held and espoused by the shop steward, Fred Kite, (played by Peter Sellers), in the 1959 Boulting Brothers film "I'm all right, Jack" are still alive and well over fifty years later...:roll:

 

[Geezertronic]

George Osborne didn't buy a Standard class ticket, his aide or another staff member would have done.

George Osbourne did not refuse to pay an upgrade to First Class, his aide apparently initially refused then paid

George Osborne wasn't apparently involved in any conversations with VT staff regarding the upgrade so couldn't have called them anything (including plebs which seems to be the word of choice at the moment)

No one has stated whether George Osborne will be claiming the cost of the upgrade via expenses or paying for it out of his own pocket. Personally I think it is neither since George wasn't involved in the process, it would have been his aide that paid

So he was watching a DVD rather than working (or so some would say). Has anyone any proof he was indeed watching a DVD and whether it was or wasn't work related?

hock: