Genuine inter-TOC competition at Milton Keynes

[Starmill]

One of the VT guards I had on a train from Birmingham was practically insulting about London Midland. He definitely had some sort of superiority complex.

It just goes to show you the power of the red brand, doesn't it?

 

[tractakid]

Are London Midland shooting themselves in the foot? Off peak travelcards and Euston day returns are now (from January) more expensive than the Virgin equivalent. Pay more for a slower journey on arguably inferior trains. Southern's travelcard sits in the middle, price wise.

 

[Greeby]

More like shot themselves in the backside. Instead of altering the Any Permitted price to sit somewhere between the lowered Wolverton fare and the raised Bletchley fare, it's been left at the current price.
They've unintentionally made travel from Wolverton a lot more popular, whether passengers actually board a train from there or not.

 

[IanD]

With Virgin not accepting Gold Cards from this January, London Midland are bound to pick up some customers there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London Midland cannot launch "London Midland Only" tickets, except Advance, as they are the fare-setting TOC for the route.

Except in this case they can, or at least they can have the ones they already had, because they exist by precedent. I *think* at or around privatisation ICWC owned the flow, or it might be that there were "NSE Only" tickets prior to privatisation. Until very recently, there were LM Only (and Silverlink before that) but no VT Only tickets.

The situation is in a way similar to Gatwick, where Southern are in the same position.

Personally, though, I don't call it "genuine competition", I call it "a pain in the backside". They could both sell interavailable tickets at the "TOC Only" price and ensure the revenue was split correctly using surveys/ORCATS, and would not be much worse off. (I think other than in the peak few people bother buying the interavailable ticket).

Neil
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More like shot themselves in the backside. Instead of altering the Any Permitted price to sit somewhere between the lowered Wolverton fare and the raised Bletchley fare, it's been left at the current price.

Wolverton has taken fares from MKC for a very long time. The peak fares have long been the same for a lot of journeys (though not London where it's a massive and unjustifiable 6 quid more expensive, and that will be causing people to drive to MKC). And yes it does mean you might as well buy a season from Wolverton just in case you need the extra bit, if your journey is one of those affected!

If they have raised the Bletchley fare again but left the MKC one unchanged, they're going to find themselves selling a lot of tickets from MKC for travel from Bletchley. Ages ago they reduced it to be equal to the LM Only fare from MKC to prevent this being the case after a lot of complaints. Break of journey is allowed, so this is perfectly permissible.

Neil
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Would you prefer no-one to benefit? As that is the alternative!

The alternative is that people who use Bletchley pay over the odds (or have to buy a ticket from MKC, which the ticket office might be told not to sell, even if they are supposed to). This went on for years, and they finally fixed it as a result of complaints (it might well have been during the David Whitley Twitter era, as he did change a few things as a result of complaints on Twitter, and had the power to being such a senior manager). But it did create that other slight loophole. Which is probably of little actual consequence given that LM and SN are owned by the same company.

Neil

 

[Greeby]

The alternative is that people who use Bletchley pay over the odds (or have to buy a ticket from MKC, which the ticket office might be told not to sell, even if they are supposed to). This went on for years, and they finally fixed it as a result of complaints (it might well have been during the David Whitley Twitter era, as he did change a few things as a result of complaints on Twitter, and had the power to being such a senior manager). But it did create that other slight loophole. Which is probably of little actual consequence given that LM and SN are owned by the same company.

Neil

The booking office doesn't get told anything about ticketing. Usually because, with the recent cuts to station management, there's no-one there to do the telling.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Are London Midland shooting themselves in the foot? Off peak travelcards and Euston day returns are now (from January) more expensive than the Virgin equivalent. Pay more for a slower journey on arguably inferior trains.

London Midland have most of the departures from Milton Keynes, which is why Virgin have their ticket.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

As for the prices in Buckinghamshire, I think it shows yet again that London Midland would struggle to organise a booze-up in a brewery.

 

[Starmill]

Are London Midland shooting themselves in the foot? Off peak travelcards and Euston day returns are now (from January) more expensive than the Virgin equivalent. Pay more for a slower journey on arguably inferior trains. Southern's travelcard sits in the middle, price wise.

It appears Southern have fallen off the ball. Either that or they're playing The Long Game - they have not changed their Travelcard price outside of the long-term average. At the start of your thread, when the other two had reduced their prices in a price war you said this made them look daft. In that market it did - you'd have been crazy to buy their Travelcard. But now they are looking more useful.

On the other hand I strongly agree that LM lowering the price of their travelcard and then increasing it to more than it was before is exceptionally sneaky - going from £19.50 to £21 is a silly thing for them to have done. I suppose it can only be hoped that sales of that ticket fall!

 

[IanD]

On the other hand I strongly agree that LM lowering the price of their travelcard and then increasing it to more than it was before is exceptionally sneaky - going from £19.50 to £21 is a silly thing for them to have done. I suppose it can only be hoped that sales of that ticket fall!

LM fiddle with their travelcard fares all the time presumably in the hope that people won't be able to keep track.

 

[tractakid]

The Virgin travelcard won't be any more expensive than it was a year ago. It only got reduced because LM undercut it!

In other news I will be buying my first EVER Southern travelcard next Saturday!

 

[Kite159]

Doncaster - London must be another journey with genuine inter-TOC competition.

Grand Central only, Hull Trains only, EC only, (East Midland Trains only), plus any permitted.

 

[LexyBoy]

Once we're forced to use smartcards we have the choice of using smartcards, there will be the opportunity for some real competition. Tickets could be variably priced by the TOCs on a per-train basis, based on anticipated loadings for that day. So you might usually get the 0821 LM at £14.83 but today it's shortformed so will cost you £31.70 - fortunately the 0830 VT is reduced to £16.32 due to an earlier missed connexion leaving it quieter than usual. £2 off if you sit in coach C where the toilet has evolved a rudimentary intelligence and is loudly singing the theme tune to Dad's Army non-stop.

 

[Deerfold]

Once we're forced to use smartcards we have the choice of using smartcards, there will be the opportunity for some real competition. Tickets could be variably priced by the TOCs on a per-train basis, based on anticipated loadings for that day. So you might usually get the 0821 LM at £14.83 but today it's shortformed so will cost you £31.70 - fortunately the 0830 VT is reduced to £16.32 due to an earlier missed connexion leaving it quieter than usual. £2 off if you sit in coach C where the toilet has evolved a rudimentary intelligence and is loudly singing the theme tune to Dad's Army non-stop.

So people going for their normal train will find it's more expensive than usual as well as being crush loaded?

I know you've provided a cheaper alternative in this example, but then you'll have to make sure there's a way of telling everyone that before they've boarded so they can make the choice.

 

[IanD]

Once we're forced to use smartcards we have the choice of using smartcards, there will be the opportunity for some real competition. Tickets could be variably priced by the TOCs on a per-train basis, based on anticipated loadings for that day. So you might usually get the 0821 LM at £14.83 but today it's shortformed so will cost you £31.70 - fortunately the 0830 VT is reduced to £16.32 due to an earlier missed connexion leaving it quieter than usual. £2 off if you sit in coach C where the toilet has evolved a rudimentary intelligence and is loudly singing the theme tune to Dad's Army non-stop.

Wouldn't you need card readers on every train or even carriage rather than just at the gateline?

 

[LexyBoy]

My point was, choice is only good up to a point. If we have to shop around on every little thing just to avoid being screwed over, things have gone too far. All too often competition results in customers being lured in and then made to pay back later.

Any Permitted and Stoppers Only would be enough in my opinion.

 

[Deerfold]

My point was, choice is only good up to a point. If we have to shop around on every little thing just to avoid being screwed over, things have gone too far. All too often competition results in customers being lured in and then made to pay back later.

Any Permitted and Stoppers Only would be enough in my opinion.

Presumably you'd have to define how many stops a train has to make to be classed as a stopper.