General travel questions for GB railways

[thaitransit]

I have been a member on this site for a few years now. I mainly post about south east asian railways and mass transit. I considering a trip to the uk in either 2013 or 2014. I have never been to the uk before. I have a few questions about rail travel in the uk.

1. Are overnight sleepers available on most long distant trains after 7pm? Eg london to preston

2. Is first class sleeper airconditioned on all services. There is nothing worse than track noise all night from an open window. And a very hot sticky sleep in 30 c overnight heat.

3. Are there wide first class seats available on longdistance day time trains?

4. Are there sit down style toilets available on all trains including non aircon rail cars?

5. Are 2nd class seats on short distance trains airconditioned and comfortable or tight for seat space?

I hope someone can give me some friendly advise on this.

 

[maniacmartin]

Hi,

Overnight sleepers are only available on 2 routes:
Night Riviera: London/Reading to Taunton and stations through to Penzance
Caledonian Sleeper: London to North West England and many scottish stations.

The Caledonian Sleeper does call at Preston, but I believe this is for pick-up only northbound and set-down only southbound, so you cannot make a journey London to Preston by sleeper.


I'm not sure if all sleeper accommodating is air-conditioned, but you won't have the problem with 30C overnight heat in the UK, as our climate is a bit cooler than in many parts of SE Asia.


Most long distance routes have first class accommodation, where the seats are indeed wider and comfier.


Nearly all long distance trains have proper toilets, however shorter regional and local services often don't.


2nd class is called "standard class" on UK railways, and again you don't need to worry about air conditioning, although I believe most have it, as our climate isn't that hot here. Some standard class stock can feel quite cramped, whereas other stock feels rather spacious. On busy commuter routes at peak times you may have to stand if all of the seats are taken.

 

[jopsuk]

As said, sleeper trains are very rare on the GB network. For London to Preston the last service from London leaves at 2110, arrving 2339. The first train in the morning leaves at 0539, arriving 0813.

The Highland Sleeper (from London to the north of Scotland, splitting at Edinburgh to go to Fort William, Inverness and Glasgow as three seperate trains) does call at Preston, but as noted, this is for passengers from Preston heading to Scotland only (and in the other direction, passengers from Scotland to Preston). It leaves before the last day train (it's a slower train, both because it is older stock and for a smoother ride- plus the service needs to take its time so as not to arrive too early!) but gets to Preston later.

 

[Be3G]

Nevertheless, for the sake of completeness, I'll add that the sleeper cabins do contain air conditioning (with a switch that allows you to set a vague level of coolness), but in my single experience it didn't work very well. Perhaps it was faulty in my particular cabin, but I wouldn't want to trust it during one of England's occasional hot and humid nights.

 

[thaitransit]

Thanks for the advice didn't know sleepers were uncommon in the UK.

The London to Preston train must run very fast and doesn't get held up in every passing loop by cargo trains. I would assume in the UK once 30 or 40 km out from London the double track will end and its busy single track from there all the way to Preston.

To be able to complete a 300 km trip in only 2 and half hours. This train must have special express priority. In Thailand that would take at least 6 to 7 hours if on time normally 8 to 9 hours with delays.

Are the trains that do Preston in 2 and half hours diesel rail cars?

 

[ainsworth74]

The core part of the WCML (the route that Preston is on) is four track (occasionally six) I believe as far as Crewe and is two track from then on to Glasgow. It's electrified throughout and long distance services are provided by nine and eleven car EMUs (Class 390s). The train referred to above isn't a priority express (I do not believe we have such a thing) and most services do the journey in two hours or so with a top speed of 125mph (200kph).

 

[Be3G]

As an aside, it puts the quality of our railways in to perspective, doesn't it, when you see how impressed people from abroad are with what ours offer. Similarly a friend of mine from the USA thought our trains were great too when she came over here a few months ago.

 

[ainsworth74]

As an aside, it puts the quality of our railways in to perspective, doesn't it, when you see how impressed people from abroad are with what ours offer.

Quite. I personally believe that GB has one of the best railway networks in the world. That's not to say there aren't issues but even with the problems we have with things like cost (both to the passenger and taxpayer), lack of capacity on some routes and old stock on other routes we still have a very fine railway system. But that is not a popular point of view to take with the media and public at large it seems.

I think that thaitransit is going to have quite an eye-opening experience when they get here

 

[junglejames]

As an aside, it puts the quality of our railways in to perspective, doesn't it, when you see how impressed people from abroad are with what ours offer. Similarly a friend of mine from the USA thought our trains were great too when she came over here a few months ago.

The point ThaiTransit made, is a good one though. Are our railways as good from an FOCs perspective?

Whilst our railway system is without doubt very good, we are lucky (as passengers), that passenger trains get priority (usually!).
It certainly speeds things up an awful lot.

I have to admit, I was very amused at the thought of the WCML being a single track line with passing loops! Are things that different between Thailand and UK?
I expect if ThaiTransit bumps into Mr Branson at all, he will have him convinced it used to be a single track railway before virgin came along and saved the day

 

[telstarbox]

It was good of him to replace all those steam engines with Pendolinos too, and all out of his own pocket!

 

[Buttsy]

As far as comfort goes, I'd like to hear his comments on a Pacer compared to what is normally available in South East Asia. Perhaps a run to Blackpool Pleasure Beach after getting to Preston?????

 

[jopsuk]

Thanks for the advice didn't know sleepers were uncommon in the UK.

The London to Preston train must run very fast and doesn't get held up in every passing loop by cargo trains. I would assume in the UK once 30 or 40 km out from London the double track will end and its busy single track from there all the way to Preston.

To be able to complete a 300 km trip in only 2 and half hours. This train must have special express priority. In Thailand that would take at least 6 to 7 hours if on time normally 8 to 9 hours with delays.

Are the trains that do Preston in 2 and half hours diesel rail cars?

As said, the West Coast Main Line is a minimum of two tracks all the way from London to Glasgow (through Preston), fully electrified, with much of the route run at 125mph and (roughly) passenger services given priority over freight- most of the network is pretty much run as a passenger railway that also handles freight, rather than a freight railway that begrudgingly handles passengers. The East Coast mainline to Edinburgh is similar- both of them towards the London end have a lot of four track running, six in places and even more through some areas (some approaches to south London stations have 10+ tracks). London to Glasgow or Edinburgh (from Euston or Kings Cross) is done in as little as four hours, both routes running at up to 125mph, with trains once an hour.

I think you'll be blown away by the British rail network- and most of Western and Northern Europe is similar.

 

[Buttsy]

If you're going to travel around the UK a lot by train, I would recommend you look into getting a BritRail pass as it is very good value. Also, you may find that Standard Class is perfectly adequate for your needs.

 

[dave_wm]

The London to Preston daytime trains run at speeds of up to 125mph (200kph), and generally have priority over freight trains. The line is 6 track out of London as far as Watford (17 miles, 27km), then mostly 4 track but occasionally double track as far as Preston - there are no sections of single track on the West Coast Main Line.

On average around 90% of Virgin Trains (who operate the London - Preston route) arrive on time or within 10 minutes of scheduled time.

The trains from London to Preston are Class 390 'Virgin Pendolino' tilting Electric Multiple Units (effectively Electric Railcars), formed of either 9 or 11 coaches. See this page for more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_390

Hope that helps

 

[the sniper]

The London to Preston train must run very fast and doesn't get held up in every passing loop by cargo trains.

As a general rule in this country, and I believe much of western Europe, passenger services take priority over normal freight trains.

 

[LexyBoy]

You're in for a big shock! Hopefully a good one.

2. Is first class sleeper airconditioned on all services. There is nothing worse than track noise all night from an open window. And a very hot sticky sleep in 30 c overnight heat

I'm sure it wasn't just me who had a little giggle at this Make sure you look up the meaning of "wooly jumper" before you arrive!

Rest assured though that long distance trains all have aircon and more importantly heating. Seats are mostly comfortable in standard class- 2+2, i.e. 2 seats each side of a central aisle. In first it's 1+2 and you'll usually get free drinks and snacks, or a meal during the week.

Fares are expensive though, do a bit of research before arriving!

Oh, and express coaches are usually a lot slower and less frequent than trains, unlike Thailand!

 

[43167]

As said, sleeper trains are very rare on the GB network. For London to Preston the last service from London leaves at 2110, arrving 2339. The first train in the morning leaves at 0539, arriving 0813.

The Highland Sleeper (from London to the north of Scotland, splitting at Edinburgh to go to Fort William, Inverness and Glasgow as three seperate trains) does call at Preston, but as noted, this is for passengers from Preston heading to Scotland only (and in the other direction, passengers from Scotland to Preston). It leaves before the last day train (it's a slower train, both because it is older stock and for a smoother ride- plus the service needs to take its time so as not to arrive too early!) but gets to Preston later.

The Highland sleeper 2 out of 3 right, the 3rd portion goes to Aberdeen.

The Glasgow sleeper goes with the Edinburgh Sleeper and splits/joins at Carstairs. The Glasgow/Edinburgh Sleeper doesnt call at Preston for passengers, though if you wanted to go to Glasgow on an overnight from Preston, the Fort William portion calls at Westerton, which by time you got there, the early morning local services to would have started running.

 

[Buttsy]

Make sure you look up the meaning of "wooly jumper" before you arrive!

The other thing you may need is wet weather gear, Britain's weather is notoriously unreliable in summer...

 

[jopsuk]

The Highland sleeper 2 out of 3 right, the 3rd portion goes to Aberdeen.

The Glasgow sleeper goes with the Edinburgh Sleeper and splits/joins at Carstairs. The Glasgow/Edinburgh Sleeper doesnt call at Preston for passengers, though if you wanted to go to Glasgow on an overnight from Preston, the Fort William portion calls at Westerton, which by time you got there, the early morning local services to would have started running.

I know this. I have no idea why I typed "Glasgow" when I meant Aberdeen. Weird.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'd recommend Seat 61 as a good introduction to rail travel pretty much anywhere. The UK pages are more aimed at getting good fares than the pages for other countries, however. You can see how accurate you think his assessment of Thai railways are too!

 

[thaitransit]

The britrail passes sound like a great idea. But it states i need to pay an extra fee for a seat reservation. Never had to pay extra for booking a set seat on a train before.

Any idea how much extra this fee would be? For someone using a 15 day 1st class pass.

 

[dave_wm]

Generally, if you were traveling First Class, seat reservations would not be required, except on the busiest peak hour services into London in the morning (approximately 0800-1000), and out in the evening (approximately 1630-1830). Even then, First Class seats should be available without a reservation in the vast majority of cases.

In addition, seat reservations can be made free of charge at any staffed UK rail station, so it'd be best to wait until you get here.

 

[Requeststop]

I have been a member on this site for a few years now. I mainly post about south east asian railways and mass transit. I considering a trip to the uk in either 2013 or 2014. I have never been to the uk before. I have a few questions about rail travel in the uk.

1. Are overnight sleepers available on most long distant trains after 7pm? Eg london to preston

2. Is first class sleeper airconditioned on all services. There is nothing worse than track noise all night from an open window. And a very hot sticky sleep in 30 c overnight heat.

3. Are there wide first class seats available on longdistance day time trains?

4. Are there sit down style toilets available on all trains including non aircon rail cars?

5. Are 2nd class seats on short distance trains airconditioned and comfortable or tight for seat space?

I hope someone can give me some friendly advise on this.

I don't know if my Thai script will work here but here goes.
ยินดี Thaitransit คุณ ทักษะการใช้ภาษาไทยของฉันไม่ได้ดีที่สุดฉันกลัว.

British Railways services are much better that Thailand Rail services if you regard service and comfort. In the UK we have a wider track gauge than in Thailand and so the speed is faster. The comfort in the trains is not as good as the Eastern Orient from Singapore to Bangkok, but it is better than a ride from Bangkok to Chaing Mai.

To answer your questions in order.
1. Yes there are overnight sleepers but not between London and Preston.
2. Yes the sleeper trains are totally air conditioned both for coolness (ถ้าเคยได้รับความอบอุ่นในประเทศอังกฤษในช่วงฤดูร้อน) and warmth in the winter. The windows are sealed and cannot be opened so no noise from outside.
3. Yes there are first class seats available on many train services in the UK but some local services do not have first class. The seats are generally more comfortable and have more leg room but generally are not wider as in an aircraft for example. (ชายร่างสูงและคนอ้วนจะถือว่าเป็นเดียวกันในประเทศของฉัน)
4. All trains have aircon including the toilets. All toilets are western style as used in many towns and cities in Thailand. The squat toilets ส้วมนั่งยอง (สไตล์แอฟริกันและอาหรับ) are not used in general in the UK especially on public transport.
5. Second Class seats are very comfortable even on short journeys but be prepared to stand during the commuter hours as the trains are very busy during those times.

Khun Thaitransit, Happy Loi Khratong this day. ลอยกระทงสุขให้คุณและครอบครัวของคุณ ฉันขอโทษสำหรับคนยากจนมากไทยของฉัน แต่ฉันหวังว่าคุณจะเข้าใจความหมายของฉัน เพลิดเพลินไปกับการเยี่ยมชมของคุณไปยังประเทศของฉัน!

To the Moderators, I promise that the Thai script says nothing offensive at all but it is aimed to help thaitransit to understand my replies a bit more! Thanks.

 

[ainsworth74]

The seats are generally more comfortable and have more leg room but generally are not wider as in an aircraft for example.

Depends on the type of service. Intercity operators (Virgin, East Coast, Cross Country, First Great Western, Greater Anglia and Transpennine Express) have wider seats in first class for sure.

 

[Charlie2555]

4. All trains have aircon including the toilets. All toilets are western style as used in many towns and cities in Thailand. The squat toilets ส้วมนั่งยอง (สไตล์แอฟริกันและอาหรับ) are not used in general in the UK especially on public transport.

Not all trains have air con, a lot of suburban services don't and instead have opening windows.

 

[Requeststop]

The other thing you may need is wet weather gear, Britain's weather is notoriously unreliable in summer...

Obviously you have not been in Thailand during the rainy season. Generally May through November is the rainy season in Thailand and you see some of the thunder and lightening and the rain. Ok like in the UK it doesn't rain every day. My Thai partner hates the constant drizzle we get. It's nothing like the downpours that get in Bangkok for example, that last for an hour or two,

Certainly for a Thai national visiting the UK, they will need some warm clothing. Khun Thai transit will find some good warm weather clothing at MBK in Bangkok. He will know where MBK is!

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I would like to make a further point of interest. We have Class 158 and 360 trains which are also seen in Thailand, albeit (of course) looking different, notably internally.
I also agree with Requeststop - the weather here is very notorious!