General Question...

[class 313]

Well.

Me and my collegue at work are working out most codes used by TOCs for when there's a delay or something.

For example:-

DOO - Driver Operation Only

Can anyone on here help us find anymore?

 

[1D53]

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/dag_0907.pdf

 

[class 313]

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/dag_0907.pdf

Thanks for that, looks good!

 

[djw1981]

Well.

Me and my collegue at work are working out most codes used by TOCs for when there's a delay or something.

For example:-

DOO - Driver Operation Only

Can anyone on here help us find anymore?

Would DOO really be the reason for a delay though?

 

[class 313]

Would DOO really be the reason for a delay though?

It was an example, but still, you never know.

 

[djw1981]

Well no. The delay could be due to a train fault, sick passenger etc, or driver error (SPAD etc) but not due to DOO itself, since DOO is a protocol and method of operation not an event.

Do try and think before posting sometimes.

 

[me123]

I could imagine on, for example, FSR 156s that DOO would be problematic. IIRC, the controls are outwith the cab in the vestibules hence it would take one or two minutes extra at the station in total to allow passengers on and off.

 

[class 313]

Well no. The delay could be due to a train fault, sick passenger etc, or driver error (SPAD etc) but not due to DOO itself, since DOO is a protocol and method of operation not an event.

Do try and think before posting sometimes.

Theres no need to be like that, like I said, It was just an example of the type of code I was looking for. Fair enough I could of been clearer, but still.

 

[djw1981]

I could imagine on, for example, FSR 156s that DOO would be problematic. IIRC, the controls are outwith the cab in the vestibules hence it would take one or two minutes extra at the station in total to allow passengers on and off.

AIUI For safety reasons FSR (and any other operator?) cannot have a DOO Diesel. Not sure how Chiltern do it......

Plus if you are going for DOO you have the time and budget to move the controls into the cab if you really want.

 

[me123]

I didn't know that they couldn't but, in theory, if they had to (which is obviously not allowed) it would cause delays.

 

[mbonwick]

NFU - No F*cking Use!

 

[Respite]

Well no. The delay could be due to a train fault, sick passenger etc, or driver error (SPAD etc) but not due to DOO itself, since DOO is a protocol and method of operation not an event.

Do try and think before posting sometimes.

Actually just to be pedantic, DOO can cause delays.

I was sent up to Llanwyrted Wells (Heart of Wales line) the other night to pick up a 150, then work it DOO to Pen-Y-Bont to rescue a stranded 153, then work it DOO to shrewsbury. Because I was DOO I had to work all the Xings that the guard normally does. This did actually delay the train quite a bit as I had to secure the cab in each instance (DRA on,Brake in step 3, F&R to N, cab door closed,open butterfly for crew door etc etc) plus actually find where & how the crossing controls worked as we never have to do this move normally & it gets very dark up there at night. I eventually arrived back at salop about 10 late for the next train that unit was working.

 

[Coxster]

I'd call that driver incompetence mate

 

[djw1981]

But that is DOO OOS surely?

 

[Respite]

I'd call that driver incompetence mate

Yeah probably right mate, did stop at the chip shop at Llandrindod though. Was really funny the looks on the other customer's faces as I stopped the 150 alongside the shop & ambled in for some chips for the poor fitter who had been on the failed 153 for 7 hours. They all let me jump to the front & get served first.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But that is DOO OOS surely?

Still DOO though isnt it?
Knockon effect delays are still acountable in the big picture.
:grin:

 

[westcoaster]

DOO- missing the mirrors or cctv monitors, and having to get out a visually check the full lenght of your train can delay you

 

[O L Leigh]

NXEA run Cl170's DOO as far as Ipswich, then a guard gets on.

DOO itself doesn't delay trains where it is the normal method of working. Any delays as a result of faulty DOO equipment no despatch staff would not accrue against the driver.

O L Leigh

 

[class 313]

NXEA run Cl170's DOO as far as Ipswich, then a guard gets on.

DOO itself doesn't delay trains where it is the normal method of working. Any delays as a result of faulty DOO equipment no despatch staff would not accrue against the driver.

O L Leigh

"Delays due to lack off staff" - Could be used when there's no dispatch team.

 

[djw1981]

Is that a valid delay appropriation category? If not, stop making them up!

 

[class 313]

Is that a valid delay appropriation category? If not, stop making them up!

Delays due to staff shortages is a valid delay thank you.

 

[RJ]

What is an invalid delay then?

 

[djw1981]

So it is staff shortage not 'lack of staff' then.

Invalid - stoat on the line?

 

[class 313]

So it is staff shortage not 'lack of staff' then.

Invalid - stoat on the line?

Staff Shortages, and Lack of staff, same meanings? If there is a lack of staff there is a shortage! Anyway! How many times do I need to say, it was an example of the type of codes we needed. Be it for delays or not.

 

[RJ]

Anyone know the difference, if any between a 'valid' delay and 'invalid' delay? I've never heard this terminology used before??

 

[djw1981]

It may depend for whom you are the delay clerk...
The 2007 Delay Attribution Gudie is here http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...on guide/delay attribution guide jan 2007.pdf

It also goes for the prime cause, do in Ghost CAv's DOO example above, the prime delay maybe a set failure requiring him to run DOO with a replacement. Hence why a pathing decision between an XC train and the Edinburgh-Newcraighall train the other year caused 900 delay minutes, because every delay that train accrued or caused was blamed on that one decision, even though the initial delay was only 4 minutes.

Delay Code   Category Brief Description Default
A Freight Terminal Operations  (FOC)             (A##*) O***
F Freight Train Operator causes (excl FOC)     (F##*) O***
I and J Non Passenger’s Charter Exclusion 
infrastructure problems                                (IQ**) C*** Q*** O***
M Passenger and Freight Train Operator
Fleet problems                                           (M***) D*** O***
O Network Rail                                           (OQ**)
P Planned or excluded delays/cancellations
See paragraph 3.2.5                                   (PQ**) O***
Q Network Rail internal non-Operating causes  (QQ**) O***
R Station Operations Causes                         (RH**) D*** O***
T Passenger Train Operator causes
(excluding Fleet and Station problems)            (TH**) D*** O***
V Passenger’s Charter excludable events
the responsibility of Passenger TOC                 (VH**) D*** O***
X Passenger’s Charter excludable events
the responsibility of Network Rail                     (XQ**) D*** O***
Y Reactionary/consequential delays arising as a result of trains being delayed earlier by a given incident[B]
As per Incident to which they are allocated[/B]
Z Unexplained delays and cancellations                      O***

Suppose a Plymouth to York train is delayed as follows:-
At Plymouth: 10 minutes due to vehicle defect.
Approaching Bristol: 3 minutes due to loss of path.
Approaching Derby: 8 minutes due to signal failure.
Approaching Sheffield: 4 minutes due to waiting platform (due
to its late running it has lost its platform ‘slot’).
The Minutes Delay approaching Bristol would be attributed to the vehicle defect but using the Delay Code YC or YD to describe its loss of path. If no time were regained then the 4 Minutes Delay approaching Sheffield would also be attributed to the vehicle defect using code YO since the 13 Minutes Delay due to this exceeds the 8 Minutes Delay due to the signal failure. However, if the train had regained all but 5 minutes by the time it left Birmingham, the delay outside Sheffield would be attributed to the signal failure since only 5 minutes of the lateness approaching Sheffield is due to the vehicle defect. It is important that the effects of subsequent incidents are properly taken into account when considering the attribution of reactionary delays, and determining where the earlier incident’s effects have ceased. Apart from YL in respect of Infrastructure Maintainer or FOC delays (See 4.28.1), the
only other exception is where the main or only cause of delay is a P* coded incident in which case the code Q* (especially QL for TSR incidents) is to be used, reflecting that the location of the Recovery Time in the train schedule does not avoid conflicts with other trains after the TSR has been encountered. See Sections 4.29 and 4.34.

The full list of codes s included in the 125 pages of codes and algorithms.