General Election: Postal votes enquiry

[nw1]

Just a quick enquiry about postal votes for anyone who is also in that situation, or has been in the past.

For the first time I will be out of the country on election day and have therefore applied for a postal vote.

I leave on June 27 - so one week before the election.

Is it likely that I will get the postal vote paperwork by then? The council seems to be a bit non-committal. Last thing I want to do is miss the chance to vote!

(If not, I can still cancel before end of Wednesday and arrange a proxy vote instead).

The trip was arranged before Sunak's rain-soaked announcement so I don't really have much choice...

Thanks.

 

[Gloster]

An item in the Evening Standard, so you can make your own judgement of its accuracy, says around three weeks before the election. An official site for Northern Ireland says all should be issued by 21 June, while Elmbridge says around 10 days. Not an ideal situation.

 

[simonw]

Just a quick enquiry about postal votes for anyone who is also in that situation, or has been in the past.

For the first time I will be out of the country on election day and have therefore applied for a postal vote.

I leave on June 27 - so one week before the election.

Is it likely that I will get the postal vote paperwork by then? The council seems to be a bit non-committal. Last thing I want to do is miss the chance to vote!

(If not, I can still cancel before end of Wednesday and arrange a proxy vote instead).

The trip was arranged before Sunak's rain-soaked announcement so I don't really have much choice...

Thanks.

Postal vote forms should start arriving from today, but they tend to be sent out in batches and, with the postal system the way it is, who knows what delays will occur. having said that, the 27th should see all postal voted delivered in order that they are returned in time.

 

[nw1]

An item in the Evening Standard, so you can make your own judgement of its accuracy, says around three weeks before the election. An official site for Northern Ireland says all should be issued by 21 June, while Elmbridge says around 10 days. Not an ideal situation.

OK - thanks. My council says 10 or 11 days, though it's unclear whether this is working days or not. Working days would be fine, but calendar days might be a problem.

It certainly isn't ideal, I really think councils should be sending them out as soon as possible after the application is processed. Particularly with a mid-summer election when there is a very high chance that people will be away.

Maybe I'll wait until Wednesday morning and if I don't get anything, go the proxy route instead.

 

[Gloster]

It certainly isn't ideal, I really think councils should be sending them out as soon as possible after the application is processed. Particularly with a mid-summer election when there is a very high chance that people will be away.

I would think that they need to wait until the deadline before they start to issue the votes as otherwise you might get all sorts of problems with people changing their mind. However, once the deadline has passed they ought to be ready to issue the votes very soon so as to get them to as many people as possible before they leave.

 

[Stephen42]

I would think that they need to wait until the deadline before they start to issue the votes as otherwise you might get all sorts of problems with people changing their mind. However, once the deadline has passed they ought to be ready to issue the votes very soon so as to get them to as many people as possible before they leave.

There isn't a requirement to wait until the postal vote deadline (which is Wednesday in Great Britain, yesterday for Northern Ireland) as there are processes in place to cancel postal votes in case a replacement has to be issued. The deadlines are set in legislation and with increased use of postal voting it's a huge operation to try to get everything out in time. Many election staff will be working parts or all of this weekend. There's only a week and half between the nomination deadline and postal vote deadline so in practice few votes can go out before that deadline. Ballots that needs to go overseas are prioritised and will mostly go out before the postal vote deadline.

It's often done in batches as specialist printing is required and much slower to issue single ballots. Due to legislation the earliest some postal votes can be issued is the 26th June, this is typically when the last batch will be dispatched. The first domestic batch will often be next week, different councils will have different application cut-offs for each batch as it depends on their printing/issuing arrangements.

 

[jon0844]

I got the initial card to say my postal vote should arrive from June 17th (Monday/tomorrow). I don't have it to hand to see if it said anything more than that, as I didn't pay much attention. It's good I suppose to know it's coming, but also seems like a waste of paper/postage. However, if the rules say I must be notified that I'm registered for a postal vote and cannot post in person, then so be it.

 

[davetheguard]

The only time I've tried to vote by post was in the General Election of 2010. We knew we'd be on a two week holiday abroad, and the GE would be two days before we came home.

We applied in good time, but nothing arrived before we left on holiday.

On arrival home, the paperwork was waiting for us on the doormat - too late! Very annoying and the only time in my life I've failed to vote.

 

[Whistler40145]

From 22nd June in Blackpool

 

[Ostrich]

Dorset CC say they will be sent out "around Wednesday 19th June". They also say don't pester them unless you haven't received it by 28th June ....

 

[nw1]

Are they sent in first-class post incidentally?

Basically it has to arrive by around 10.00 or so on the 27th, otherwise I won't be here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2024 ==

Dorset CC say they will be sent out "around Wednesday 19th June". They also say don't pester them unless you haven't received it by 28th June ....

28th? Not good.

It seems to me that the system is in need of reform.

Proxy is the alternative, of course, but that means relying on a third-party, and what if they are ill, their car breaks down (and they're not on a bus route), or some emergency comes up on polling day....

 

[Stephen42]

Are they sent in first-class post incidentally?

Basically it has to arrive by around 10.00 or so on the 27th, otherwise I won't be here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2024 ==



28th? Not good.

It seems to me that the system is in need of reform.

Proxy is the alternative, of course, but that means relying on a third-party, and what if they are ill, their car breaks down (and they're not on a bus route), or some emergency comes up on polling day....

Legally replacement postal votes can only be issued from the 28th and many councils say wait until then as there's nothing they can do if people call up earlier. It's not that they may be expected to arrive up until that date.

Proxies themselves can vote by post if they wish provided they make a suitable application before the relevant deadline. It's rare anyone wants to do it, but if so they should contact their council to get the appropriate forms and enquire about the relevant deadlines.

 

[jon0844]

Elon Musk this weekend is now working very hard to discredit postal voting (and probably all voting) in the USA and of course that immediately brings back all the thoughts of election stealing - which I am sure will also apply to the UK if and when the Tories lose.

I am not entirely sure Rishi will go down the road of claiming election fraud, but it wouldn't be surprising if Reform do - given they're supposedly doing well in the polls, but will likely get very few - if any - seats in reality. That will come over to their base as rigging.

 

[ainsworth74]

It seems to me that the system is in need of reform.

What reform would you suggest?

Proxy is the alternative, of course, but that means relying on a third-party, and what if they are ill, their car breaks down (and they're not on a bus route), or some emergency comes up on polling day....

It is possible to arrange an Emergency Proxy vote on the day of the election itself in certain circumstances:

In certain circumstances, where you have an emergency that means you can't vote in person, you can apply for an emergency proxy.

This must be something that you weren't aware of before the normal proxy vote deadline, usually 5pm, 6 working days before the election. Emergency proxy applications can be made up to 5pm on polling day.

Circumstances where you may be able to apply for an emergency proxy include:

• You have a medical emergency (PDF)
• You are away for work (PDF)
• Your photo ID is lost, stolen, destroyed or damaged (PDF) after the deadline to apply for a Voter Authority Certificate has passed and you want to vote in an election which requires photo ID. This form can also be used if your Anonymous Elector's Document is lost, stolen, destroyed or damaged.

If you need to apply for an emergency proxy or to find out more information, contact the electoral services team at your local council.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/ways-vote/emergency-proxy-vote

Though I appreciate this may be logistically tricky with you not being in the UK. Personally if you're so worried about the postal vote I would just suggest going for a proxy vote instead, there was a General Election where it looked like I might not be in the UK when it took place (the 2019 one) and I was going to simply appointment my mum as proxy rather than faff with a postal vote. And that was before the Royal Mail went into a state of minor collapse!

 

[nw1]

What reform would you suggest?

Getting the first batch of postal votes delivered say a little over two weeks before election day, to cater for the average two-week holiday, as long as you applied early (e.g 4 or 5 weeks before election day).

At the end of the day I guess Rishi caught us out with his July election. If I'd have thought it was a realistic possibility I'd probably have arranged to go away 10 days later! But no, I thought perhaps June, and if it wasn't June, it'd be the autumn.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jun 2024 ==

Though I appreciate this may be logistically tricky with you not being in the UK. Personally if you're so worried about the postal vote I would just suggest going for a proxy vote instead, there was a General Election where it looked like I might not be in the UK when it took place (the 2019 one) and I was going to simply appointment my mum as proxy rather than faff with a postal vote. And that was before the Royal Mail went into a state of minor collapse!

I think this is what I'll do. The deadline for cancelling the postal vote is 5pm Wed, so if I don't get anything by Wed early morning I'll cancel and go proxy instead.

 

[najaB]

What reform would you suggest?

What about early in-person voting?

 

[WesternLancer]

OK - thanks. My council says 10 or 11 days, though it's unclear whether this is working days or not. Working days would be fine, but calendar days might be a problem.

It certainly isn't ideal, I really think councils should be sending them out as soon as possible after the application is processed. Particularly with a mid-summer election when there is a very high chance that people will be away.

Maybe I'll wait until Wednesday morning and if I don't get anything, go the proxy route instead.

They can only send them out once nominations deadline closes as that is when they know whose names to print on the ballot paper.

I would always advocate that if you are abroad to appoint a reliable proxy. But the deadline for that is later than postal vote deadline. However I doubt they will permit cancellation of a postal vote after they start sending them out. I would think if you are not going away to 26 June you will be ok. Fingers crossed.

The people who have permanent postal votes will get theirs first as the systems in place to send them out will be ready well before an election is called as they are permanently on the books.

Good luck.

 

[ainsworth74]

What about early in-person voting?

Well that's not exactly postal voting is it! But I do actually agree that it should be possible to do early in-person voting. Probably only one or two polling stations per constituency (or perhaps, depending on the length of early voting it could visit a few different areas) but I certainly do think we should introduce it in some form at least.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I applied for a postal vote for last month’s local elections because I was going to be away on holiday. It hadn’t arrived by the day I left home, 6 days before polling day. No idea if that’s a difference between local / national elections, Calderdale council being a bit rubbish, or postal delays

 

[najaB]

Well that's not exactly postal voting is it! But I do actually agree that it should be possible to do early in-person voting. Probably only one or two polling stations per constituency (or perhaps, depending on the length of early voting it could visit a few different areas) but I certainly do think we should introduce it in some form at least.

True, but it could use the same mechanism as postal voting, just without the ballot actually being posted.

 

[nw1]

They can only send them out once nominations deadline closes as that is when they know whose names to print on the ballot paper.

I would always advocate that if you are abroad to appoint a reliable proxy. But the deadline for that is later than postal vote deadline. However I doubt they will permit cancellation of a postal vote after they start sending them out. I would think if you are not going away to 26 June you will be ok. Fingers crossed.

The people who have permanent postal votes will get theirs first as the systems in place to send them out will be ready well before an election is called as they are permanently on the books.

Good luck.

Thanks.

As I happened I emailed the council yesterday and they told me that the postal votes (presumably the first batch) "had already been sent out, and will be with you soon".

So it looks like I will be in luck. Presumably they sent out a first batch consisting of those who registered well in advance of the deadline.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks.

As I happened I emailed the council yesterday and they told me that the postal votes (presumably the first batch) "had already been sent out, and will be with you soon".

So it looks like I will be in luck. Presumably they sent out a first batch consisting of those who registered well in advance of the deadline.

Do hope this works out OK - it's really frustrating that when you go to considerable efforts to ensure you can vote (as you are obv doing) the 'system' does not always work as smoothly as you would expect it to.

As mentioned of course, I don't think this is helped by the seemingly steady decline in the levels of service Royal Mail now seem happy to provide. A once superb service that now appears to be descending into a shadow of its former self, but that's another topic.

 

[najaB]

As mentioned of course, I don't think this is helped by the seemingly steady decline in the levels of service Royal Mail now seem happy to provide. A once superb service that now appears to be descending into a shadow of its former self, but that's another topic

I agree it's probably a topic for another thread, but I don't think Royal Mail are any happier about the state of their service than the rest of us. But that's the consequence of trying to run a public service at a profit.

 

[Amos]

Received my postal vote this morning,hopefully yours won’t be too far behind.

 

[WesternLancer]

My postal vote also arrived today so hopefully they are going out smoothly from all councils

 

[gswindale]

Yep. Ours received safely today.

 

[nw1]

I ended up (overcautiously, I know) cancelling the postal vote and appointing a proxy in the end "just to be sure" - probably just being paranoid about the Royal Mail.

But the following day, the (now cancelled) postal vote then arrived!

Thanks for the replies though.

 

[WesternLancer]

I ended up (overcautiously, I know) cancelling the postal vote and appointing a proxy in the end "just to be sure" - probably just being paranoid about the Royal Mail.

But the following day, the (now cancelled) postal vote then arrived!

Thanks for the replies though.

Thanks for update

actually that is typical bad luck - but you probably need to be 100% sure that the PV is cancelled to prevent the risk that your proxy turns up to vote on your behalf on election day and gets refused the vote on the basis that records show you had a postal vote...

So I would say:

I think what will happen now is that you and your Proxy will be issued letters from the council (or maybe e-mails) confirming the proxy - make sure your proxy has these (including a copy of the one sent to you perhaps) and takes them with them when they go to vote. I would not destroy the postal vote either (you could potentially fill it in, seal it, and give it to your proxy to take to the polling station to give to them in the event of the staff refusing to issue the proxy on the day on the basis that you were supposed to have voted by post). If the proxy can vote OK, your proxy should just give you back the un-deposited postal vote for you to destroy when you return from holiday - so you can proove you have not tried to vote twice. If you or the proxy send in the postal vote the ballot ref number on the signature declaration part of the postal vote docs should show to the council staff that this is in fact a cancelled postal vote and they would discard it

I realise I am probably being unnecessarily over the top in my advice, but this is the way to try to prevent your proxy being turned away on the day and not being able to do anything about it because you are out of the country.

Assuming the rules have not changed fundamentally I would think in the event of any such problem / dispute at the polling station the presiding officer should issue your proxy with a different coloured ballot paper (not sure what these are called) to allow your proxy to vote on - they keep supplies of these which are used but only counted in the event of the election being so close that the different coloured ballot papers could swing the election outcome. Since voter ID I suspect they are less common or may have been abolished even - but they were / are used in the event of someone coming to vote and finding that someone had already voted using their name and address earlier in the day (ie committed electoral fraud) - such that the fraud did not deny the true voter the chance to vote. If the suspected fraud affected the outcome of the election then I think that ultimate result of that would be the election in the constituency concerned being re-run. I think this may have actually happened in one constituency in 1997 for some reason such as this tho I've not double checked that.

There are probably some up to date presiding officers on this Forum who can correct me if any of the above is wrong / bad advice !!

 

[nw1]

@WesternLancer thanks. Presumably though I could just get written confirmation from the council that the postal vote is cancelled, which I could then print out and give to my proxy on the day in case of any dispute?

EDIT: I have now done this, I have asked for written confirmation about the status of the postal vote from the council. They are generally good at replying quickly.

I have already got written confirmation of the proxy vote.

 

[WesternLancer]

@WesternLancer thanks. Presumably though I could just get written confirmation from the council that the postal vote is cancelled, which I could then print out and give to my proxy on the day in case of any dispute?

Indeed yes, so long as they reply to you that is a better option. As you say the proxy should need to show it.

And watch out for those \proxy confirmation letters or cards they should send you (which is essentially said confirmation)

Other advice to the Proxy would be to aim to vote early in the day so that any glitches have time to get sorted (presiding officers will /. should have a hot line back to their council election officer senior staff member to clarify any issues like this were they to emerge on the day and any aspect be uncertain)