General Election 2015 - Thoughts/Predictions/Results

[Butts]

And their working class vote dropped until they were no longer even the second or third party in most areas.
A one nation unionist party to Thatcherism in 14 years.
How to win friends and influence people.
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Glasgow Cathcart - Teddy Taylor MP

A walking talking version of the Sunday Post.

"Jings, help ma boab, the Socialists are coming".

Okay - no need to rub it in

Teddy Taylor buggered off to Southend if I remember correctly !!!

I think I know how Labour Voters in Surrey feel

 

[St Rollox]

Okay - no need to rub it in

Teddy Taylor buggered off to Southend if I remember correctly !!!

I think I know how Labour Voters in Surrey feel

Funnily enough i was looking back at the Scottish political history of the Unionist/Tory party at Westminster level (something you've mentioned before) and the anti socialist progressives/moderates at local level during the 1950s to how it compared with Wales at the 1955 election.
Seems the Welsh Tories never got a look in with only 4 Tory seats out of 40.
What was the political difference between Scotland and Wales in 1955 that made the Scottish Unionists a major force and the Welsh Tories an after thought.
What made Scottish voters flock to the Tories in the 1950s?

 

[Busaholic]

Scene: a supermarket carpark in deepest Cornwall this p.m.
Action: an old pick-up truck emblazoned down both sides with UKIP posters and details of how to contact said organisation, driven by a fellow of about 60 with an extremely red face, circles the car park, almost colliding with my own perfectly driven and positioned car, before deciding to park in a parent-and-child space.
Fact one= the driver had no child in attendance.
Fact two= the truck was LEFT-HAND DRIVE!!

I wonder if this was a 'spoiler' for UKIP or yet another foot-in-mouth moment for this party, whose vote in the St Ives constituency may well decrease compared to 2010.

 

[DarloRich]

A vote for UKIP is a vote for UKIP which in itself is a vote for UKIP, see 2014 Euro elections for the results of voting for one party is for that party alone.

UKIP themselves are an alternative centre party, some ideas are left field some are right field combine both and you get alternative centre. To put it another way the Lib Dems want in the EU, UKIP wants out of the EU.

I've read the UKIP Manifesto and agree to pretty much all of it.
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There is some truth in what he said, as the BBC have this Liberal lefty view and forces it on to the people who have no choice to pay for the TV Tax so that they can gawp at an audio picture box.

The Guardian, Mirror and even the 'freebie' Metro all have this desperate undemocratic view which is again forced on to the people without them realising it.
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Personally speaking, to me democracy died when Tony BLiar got in. Thirteen years of Labour was enough to make someone who wants to live in a proper democracy whether though the remaining democratic ways or by the civil war route and not this plastic one which is an illution that was brought to you by both blue Labour and red Tories.

God the output of a fevered fantasist mind or what?

How can it be undemocratic for Tony Blair to have won 3 elections yet have killed democracy? Is democracy only acceptable if the parties you consider decent win. What utter tosh!

As for you analysis of UKIP :roll: Alternative centrist party my rse :roll: BTW i do love the victim complex the UKIPers are starting to develop.

 

[ExRes]

What I find very interesting is that the joke party, UKIP, led by the joke politician, Nigel Farage, are given so much free advertising by the media and, seemingly, individuals on such wonderful inventions as facebook and twitter, even this forum just can't stop talking about them, if UKIP and Farage are such a non-entity then why all the fuss ?

I had the misfortune to catch the last minute or two of the PP broadcast on behalf of TUSC yesterday, now they really are a joke and a danger to this country, thankfully though we'll never see the like of them in power in this country again

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I had some joker from the TUSC / SWP waving a clipboard in front of me earlier asking for signatures (presuming that they'd try to copy them in order to rig whatever it is that the museum pieces are after doing).

How can anyone take the TUSC / SWP serious, they chant in the streets like termites then they smash the area they're in up before heading back to their hovel they call home before heading out of the door on a Monday morning for more benifits.

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Plus if anyone is really planning on voting Labour, have a look at this: http://http://labour25.com/

Shocking is probably the best way to put it.

 

[DarloRich]

What I find very interesting is that the joke party, UKIP, led by the joke politician, Nigel Farage, are given so much free advertising by the media and, seemingly, individuals on such wonderful inventions as facebook and twitter, even this forum just can't stop talking about them, if UKIP and Farage are such a non-entity then why all the fuss ?

I had the misfortune to catch the last minute or two of the PP broadcast on behalf of TUSC yesterday, now they really are a joke and a danger to this country, thankfully though we'll never see the like of them in power in this country again

i dont think they are a joke - they offering a a neo Thatcherite message that isn't welcome in the Conservative Party of the 21st century but this message still which resonates with a section of the conservative spectrum.

However, Farage seems to have misjudged the debate programmes and has really reverted to his "loony" stance of a few years ago. It wont wash with many and he is throwing away his chance to make a wider impact than his core vote.

What does worry me about UKIP is that they force Dave to the right (to protect his more right wing colleagues/vote share) meaning UKIP gain a wider influence on policy than their two turn coat MPs should allow
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I had some joker from the TUSC / SWP waving a clipboard in front of me earlier asking for signatures (presuming that they'd try to copy them in order to rig whatever it is that the museum pieces are after doing).

How can anyone take the TUSC / SWP serious, they chant in the streets like termites then they smash the area they're in up before heading back to their hovel they call home before heading out of the door on a Monday morning for more benifits.

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Plus if anyone is really planning on voting Labour, have a look at this: http://http://labour25.com/

Shocking is probably the best way to put it.

You are a very odd individual aren't you. You seem to be suggesting that anyone associated with the Labour party is paedophile and/or that the Labour Party stands for the advancement and promotion of paedophilia. That is before we look at the Jewish Zionist Marxists stuff - didn't a Germanic bloke with a 'tache spout something similar?

 

[St Rollox]

I had some joker from the TUSC / SWP waving a clipboard in front of me earlier asking for signatures (presuming that they'd try to copy them in order to rig whatever it is that the museum pieces are after doing).

How can anyone take the TUSC / SWP serious, they chant in the streets like termites then they smash the area they're in up before heading back to their hovel they call home before heading out of the door on a Monday morning for more benifits.

---

Plus if anyone is really planning on voting Labour, have a look at this: http://http://labour25.com/

Shocking is probably the best way to put it.

I'm the last person to defend the Labour Party having saw them turn on a section of their own voters during the Scottish Referendum.
But that link borders on sinister.
What kind of people post terms like Jewish Zionist Marxists to describe Labour Party members.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I'm the last person to defend the Labour Party having saw them turn on a section of their own voters during the Scottish Referendum.
But that link borders on sinister.
What kind of people post terms like Jewish Zionist Marxists to describe Labour Party members.

"The Marxist government paedophile ring that brought Belgium to the brink of revolution."

Gosh, David Icke may be a few lambs short of a Sunday roast but he's not like this.

 

[TheKnightWho]

It's perfectly possible to think someone has unfortunate political views whilst defending their right to express them, you know

Don't bother. This debate has happened several times with this particular poster, who seems to conflate disagreeing with them with trying to shut them down and ban their free speech. It's really rather strange.
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What I find very interesting is that the joke party, UKIP, led by the joke politician, Nigel Farage, are given so much free advertising by the media and, seemingly, individuals on such wonderful inventions as facebook and twitter, even this forum just can't stop talking about them, if UKIP and Farage are such a non-entity then why all the fuss ?

I had the misfortune to catch the last minute or two of the PP broadcast on behalf of TUSC yesterday, now they really are a joke and a danger to this country, thankfully though we'll never see the like of them in power in this country again

UKIP's policies are a joke.

UKIP the party are not, and are frankly pretty dangerous to the country as a whole.

 

[krus_aragon]

Scotland seems to be monopolising all the Election Talk....what is happening in Greenbacks "green and pleasant land" ?

Are the Tories hanging on, are Plaid on the march or will the "Labour Fiefdom" survive in Cymru unlike it's Scottish counterpart

Plaid aren't on the same roll the SNP is. But then Plaid weren't involved in a "to-the-wire" independence referendum last year. The SNP were the only party advocating the yes vote, so a lot of that 49% are sticking with them. Pundits predict results between Plaid keeping its three seats, and gaining a further three (out of 40 in Wales).

UKIP have historically been a non-entity in Wales as far as electoral results go, with polling results always significantly lower than those of England. However, in last year's European elections, they got their first elected representative in Wales, and came second in several regions. They probably won't make top billing in this year's first-past-the-post system (I'd guess N.E. Wales would be their best chance of doing so), but they'll be likely to get some regional seats in the proportional representation system used in the Assembly elections next year.

Labour's influence in many areas of Wales had been on the wane over recent decades, but they'll still expect to hold a majority of the seats in Wales. They actually expect to gain two seats in Cardiff: the marginal Cardiff North from the Tories, and Cardiff Central from the Lib Dems (student-heavy area).

The Liberals have been on the back foot in Wales since the Assembly elections in 2011, when they were down to one constituency seat. Without any PR-based regional seats in this system, they will be hoping to keep hold of any of their three Westminster seats. Cardiff Central is unlikely given the loss of student support, so it's a case of fending off the Tories in Brecon or Plaid in Ceredigion. Ceredigion is their stronger seat.

Outside of industrial heartlands, the Conservative Party has support in rural areas of Wales. Historic support can be seen in the constituencies along the southern and north-eastern coast. (And Anglesey too: Anglesey has been the most volatile seat in Wales over the past century.) In a UK-wide election, the coverage from London has often helped the Tories (and Labour) over smaller parties, as compared to local and Assembly elections. Will the fact that so many more parties had time at the podiums change this? Perhaps to some extent, but not entirely. My money is on the Tories to have the second greatest number of seats within Wales, perhaps as many as a quarter of them.

The Green Party of England and Wales has had little recent influence over this side of the border. Much of this is due to Plaid Cymru's historic stance on environmental issues (although there's been some awkward silences over whether the party still opposes the use of nuclear power when a new plant at Wylfa will be such an influence on Anglesey's economy). I can't forsee the Greens affecting any results here in Wales this time round.



In summary: While much of England is waking up to multi-party politics, Wales (and others) have been there for a long time. This round of elections is mainly characterised by UKIP's increased influence on results, giving five major parties in play. Many seats will still have a very safe majority: Labour aren't going to lose an entire 30% majority in the Cynon Valley, and Elfyn Llwyd can be confident of being returned as MP for Dwyfor Meirionydd yet again.

But in the marginal seats, it could really be up in the air. As an example: Labour currently hold Anglesey, but Plaid and the Tories would each hope to capture it. And while UKIP won't win here, is their growing support coming at the expense of the Tories, or from elsewhere? And will the remaining Liberal voters hold their ground, or look elsewhere this time? Only time will tell...

 

[ExRes]

Don't bother. This debate has happened several times with this particular poster, who seems to conflate disagreeing with them with trying to shut them down and ban their free speech. It's really rather strange.
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UKIP's policies are a joke.

UKIP the party are not, and are frankly pretty dangerous to the country as a whole.

I rather feel you should look in the mirror some time, it seems to me that nobody is allowed to argue with or question your opinions without being verbally bullied by you and I find that unacceptable but, as it's a waste of time, I won't comment further

As for your second paragraph, you obviously feel the electorate as a whole are stupid and unable to form their own opinions, if UKIP have joke policies then only a joke minority will vote for them, how then can UKIP the party be "frankly pretty dangerous to the country as a whole" ?, TUSC have joke policies, the BNP and EDL have or have had joke policies and so have many other political parties, what happens at the election booth ?, the electorate choose not to risk giving them political power and if the electorate feel that UKIP should not be trusted with political power then they will not put a cross in the UKIP box

 

[Johnuk123]

The dangerous Sturgeon has today refused to rule out a referendum vote within the next 5 years parliament which is fair enough as that's all she's in power for nothing else matters.

Scotland wants to go it alone and we should help them all the way as it seems the SNP are on a mission to make themselves as unpopular as possible to achieve their aims by default.

Why should a tiny place with 8% of the UK population try to change things for the worse in other parts of the UK just to further it's one dimension aim.

Salmond has said today that Sturgeon has massive support in England, really ?

The polling organisation who are said to have picked the audience for the BBC debate are strangely the one that has consistently given UKIP roughly half the votes the majority of the others do.
They are so reliable that 2 days before the European election they confidently predicted UKIP would finish 3rd, that's how accurate they are, you can discount them as being anywhere near a trustworthy firm.

 

[DarloRich]

The dangerous Sturgeon has today refused to rule out a referendum vote within the next 5 years parliament which is fair enough as that's all she's in power for nothing else matters.

Scotland wants to go it alone and we should help them all the way as it seems the SNP are on a mission to make themselves as unpopular as possible to achieve their aims by default.

Why should a tiny place with 8% of the UK population try to change things for the worse in other parts of the UK just to further it's one dimension aim.

In fairness you could swap the word SNP for the word UKIP and the word Scotland for the word Europe and make almost the same point.

A hung Parliament with a Conservative led government will see any UKIP MP's considered for inclusion just as Labour will have to consider SNP if the roles are reversed
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I'm the last person to defend the Labour Party having saw them turn on a section of their own voters during the Scottish Referendum.
But that link borders on sinister.
What kind of people post terms like Jewish Zionist Marxists to describe Labour Party members.

Does that question need an answer?

 

[Antman]

Don't bother. This debate has happened several times with this particular poster, who seems to conflate disagreeing with them with trying to shut them down and ban their free speech. It's really rather strange.
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UKIP's policies are a joke.

UKIP the party are not, and are frankly pretty dangerous to the country as a whole.

Well then don't vote for them, the rest of us can make our own mind up:roll:

Quite honestly I think it's people like you that are pretty dangerous but as ridiculous as I find your views I fully accept that you have a right to express them, it's rather sad that you can't be a bit more tolerant to other peoples opinions

 

[Johnuk123]

Well then don't vote for them, the rest of us can make our own mind up:roll:

Quite honestly I think it's people like you that are pretty dangerous but as ridiculous as I find your views I fully accept that you have a right to express them, it's rather sad that you can't be a bit more tolerant to other peoples opinions

Students are "tolerant" as long as your view is one they agree with.

UKIP is not allowed on the premises by many student unions but the Oxford Union has invited hate preacher Anjem Choudary to speak despite being on bail for being a member of a banned terror group.

 

[St Rollox]

The dangerous Sturgeon has today refused to rule out a referendum vote within the next 5 years parliament which is fair enough as that's all she's in power for nothing else matters.

Scotland wants to go it alone and we should help them all the way as it seems the SNP are on a mission to make themselves as unpopular as possible to achieve their aims by default.

Why should a tiny place with 8% of the UK population try to change things for the worse in other parts of the UK just to further it's one dimension aim.

Salmond has said today that Sturgeon has massive support in England, really ?

Nicola Sturgeon, dangerous???

If only.......

 

[yorksrob]

Salmond has said today that Sturgeon has massive support in England, really ?

As a left of centre Englishman, I have to admit that a lot of Ms Sturgeon's policies make sense to me, so much so that I could see myself voting for her were she to lead a unionist party.

I'm certainly against revolving door referendums as I don't think the never ending uncertainty will do anyone any good, let alone Scotland. Yet, even someone who's quite Eurosceptic like myself would have to admit that the Scots are generally more pro-European than the rest of us, so if we were to vote to leave the EU then I think she probably would be justified in calling for a referendum on Scotland's future soon afterwards.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Put me down as another supporter of Sturgeon. If only the SNP were a properly national party, and dropped the separatist rhetoric, I'd vote for them in an instant next month.

I guess I'm voting Labour at this election. Personally, I feel a Lab-Lib-SNP-Plaid coalition, or a Lab-Lib pact with support from Plaid and the SNP on an issue by issue basis could be pretty good for the country.

 

[Johnuk123]

Put me down as another supporter of Sturgeon. If only the SNP were a properly national party, and dropped the separatist rhetoric, I'd vote for them in an instant next month.

I guess I'm voting Labour at this election. Personally, I feel a Lab-Lib-SNP-Plaid coalition, or a Lab-Lib pact with support from Plaid and the SNP on an issue by issue basis could be pretty good for the country.

It probably would look pretty good for the country on paper but who would eventually pick up the massive bill after all the handouts.

Simple economics tells you that spending money you haven't got cannot work long term.

 

[yorksrob]

Simple economics tells you that spending money you haven't got cannot work long term.

Neither can flogging off all of your assets to every Tom, Dick or Harry, yet that hasn't stopped our establishment parties over the last thirty years.

 

[me123]

The dangerous Sturgeon has today refused to rule out a referendum vote within the next 5 years parliament which is fair enough as that's all she's in power for nothing else matters.

Scotland wants to go it alone and we should help them all the way as it seems the SNP are on a mission to make themselves as unpopular as possible to achieve their aims by default.

Why should a tiny place with 8% of the UK population try to change things for the worse in other parts of the UK just to further it's one dimension aim.

Salmond has said today that Sturgeon has massive support in England, really ?

The polling organisation who are said to have picked the audience for the BBC debate are strangely the one that has consistently given UKIP roughly half the votes the majority of the others do.
They are so reliable that 2 days before the European election they confidently predicted UKIP would finish 3rd, that's how accurate they are, you can discount them as being anywhere near a trustworthy firm.

Thanks for the laugh. Dangerous Nicola Sturgeon?

The SNP have proven they are not (or, perhaps, are not any more) a single issue party. They have a comprehensive left-of-centre manifesto covering a range of issues. They have delivered on many of these issues up here in Scotland, and are continuing to do so in spite of the referendum result in September. There is no doubt in my mind that they'll try to get another referendum whenever they can, but that's not the sole reason for the party's existence. (I very much hope that there's not a neverendum, like in Quebec). Most of the SNPs policies will concern devolving as many powers to Holyrood as possible, which many of us will agree with (even a good portion of those who voted "no"), as there are many areas where Scottish and English needs differ, therefore we will both benefit by devolving these areas.

Scotland is not a "tiny place", we make up 32% of the total area of the UK, although have just 8.5% of the population.

And I'm sorry to destroy your vision, but most of us who want independence don't want it to spite England (or indeed the rest of the UK). We feel that our country would be better governed by our own politicians, and that the differing needs of the two countries are best met by two separate parliaments.

We are much more pro-European, and to most us UKIP are just seen as bizarre. They are an irrelevance up here. I think a yes to withdrawal from the EU could give a mandate for a repeat independence referendum up here if and only if Scotland votes no to withdrawal. But it would be difficult to instigate the referendum so close to the previous one.

 

[DarloRich]

It probably would look pretty good for the country on paper but who would eventually pick up the massive bill after all the handouts.

Simple economics tells you that spending money you haven't got cannot work long term.

whereas the "trickle down effect" does? How about we start by all paying the tax we should pay?

 

[St Rollox]

You've got to hand it to the British Labour Party (Scottish Branch).
Seven leaders in the last fifteen years including one that became invisible during the referendum and then left slamming the door behind her.
Their latest leader is reduced to begging local Tories to vote for him not because his policies are great but because there's 24,000 YES voters in his constituency coming right towards him as a bloc vote.
Labour in Scotland messed up big time and now they wonder why their own voters have turned against them.
Best hope now is a defeat and a new leader that understands what Home Rule really means.

 

[47802]

Put me down as another supporter of Sturgeon. If only the SNP were a properly national party, and dropped the separatist rhetoric, I'd vote for them in an instant next month.

I guess I'm voting Labour at this election. Personally, I feel a Lab-Lib-SNP-Plaid coalition, or a Lab-Lib pact with support from Plaid and the SNP on an issue by issue basis could be pretty good for the country.

God I cannot think of anything worse for the first time in my life I am actually thinking of voting Tory I cannot think of anything worse than a Labour Government propped up by the Anti English Anti Union SNP, the last Independence vote should have been on condition that would not be another vote for at least 20 years. If we end up having yet another vote then that condition should apply, and also the question of fiscal union if the scots want it should be put to a referendum vote in the rest of the UK. We cannot keep having a referendum every time the UK government is one the scots don't like, as an someone half English and half Scottish but lived in England all my life I am somewhat bemused as to what is going on in Scotland I think they have lost the plot.

UKIP the politics of fear and everything wrong in the UK is down to immigration. I want to see some tough questioning of UKIP on the consequences of Jobs in UK by moving out of the EU. A Japanese minister said about 18 months a go that many Japanese companies could relocate to other EU counties, and you have counties like Poland who are desperate to get Multi Nationals to locate their Manufacturing and Services industries their, and then there is the whole of re negotiating trade agreements, some people seem to think we can turn the UK back to the 1950's, but that UK is long gone and we are fighting for a survival in a global economy.

 

[Senex]

And I'm sorry to destroy your vision, but most of us who want independence don't want it to spite England (or indeed the rest of the UK). We feel that our country would be better governed by our own politicians, and that the differing needs of the two countries are best met by two separate parliaments.

And I suspect that many of us who would like to see Scotland gone actually like the country but do indeed feel that the differing needs of the two countries would best be met by two completely separate parliaments. And would also feel that England too would be better governed by its own politicians, freed from all West Lothian constraints. We in England should not tell the Scots how to run their affairs, and neither should they be in a position to tell us how to run our affairs -- especially when that concerns matters over which we have no say for the Scottish equivalents.

 

[St Rollox]

Ukip vote to collapse as they back the Tories for a EU referendum.
David Cameron hands Scotland Home Rule.
Labour is finished for a generation.

 

[radamfi]

They have delivered on many of these issues up here in Scotland, and are continuing to do so in spite of the referendum result in September.

What about bus deregulation? That is as fundamental as it gets, yet they don't do anything about it. Labour on the other hand appear to be addressing this according to their manifesto:

"City and county regions will be given more power over the way buses are operated in their area. They will be able to decide routes, bear down on fares, drive improvements in services, and bring together trains, buses and trams into a single network with smart ticketing.”

 

[me123]

You've got to hand it to the British Labour Party (Scottish Branch).
Seven leaders in the last fifteen years including one that became invisible during the referendum and then left slamming the door behind her.
Their latest leader is reduced to begging local Tories to vote for him not because his policies are great but because there's 24,000 YES voters in his constituency coming right towards him as a bloc vote.
Labour in Scotland messed up big time and now they wonder why their own voters have turned against them.
Best hope now is a defeat and a new leader that understands what Home Rule really means.

I think (and hope) Jim Murphy is going to be a more disastrous leader than Iain Gray, the man who ran away from his own supporters and hid in the bathroom of a Subway sandwich shop.
[youtube]LfQmg8VSj0E[/youtube]
In spite of that, he still managed to hold on to his seat when the SNP stormed to a majority government (albeit by just 151 votes).

I think I've already stated my views on Jim Murphy. I had the "privilege" of seeing his soapbox referendum tour when it hit Elgin. He just stood there shouting nonsense at people - "Ah'm a patriot, Ah support the Scottish football team" (WTF does that even have to do with anything?) and getting irritated if someone dared to shout anything back at him (which is what he was doing to us in the first place). No wonder he wound people up.

Jim Murphy knows perfectly well that, if he is not elected, he kind of has to go. He'd be (I suspect) the first Scottish Labour leader who wasn't holding any office! However, I think that'll be a seat the Labour keeps a hold of. Murphy had an absolute majority of the vote (50.8%), with the Tories in second place (30.4%) and the SNP trailing in 4th place with less than 10% of the overall vote. I do not doubt that the SNP will likely rise to second place - overtaking the Lib Dems and Tories is probably inevitable, but I don't think that they'll manage to overtake Labour. I suspect that a lot of left supporters will be attracted from Labour to the SNP, but at least as many Tory and Lib Dem supporters will be pulled to Labour without.
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What about bus deregulation? That is as fundamental as it gets, yet they don't do anything about it. Labour on the other hand appear to be addressing this according to their manifesto:

"City and county regions will be given more power over the way buses are operated in their area. They will be able to decide routes, bear down on fares, drive improvements in services, and bring together trains, buses and trams into a single network with smart ticketing.”

I support bus regulation. As a passenger, I feel persistently discourage from using the buses because the network does not meet the needs of workers and commuters. I hope that the SNP do implement this. I am an unabashed SNP supporter, but I am disappointed that this has not come to fruition.

 

[Johnuk123]

And I suspect that many of us who would like to see Scotland gone actually like the country but do indeed feel that the differing needs of the two countries would best be met by two completely separate parliaments. And would also feel that England too would be better governed by its own politicians, freed from all West Lothian constraints. We in England should not tell the Scots how to run their affairs, and neither should they be in a position to tell us how to run our affairs -- especially when that concerns matters over which we have no say for the Scottish equivalents.

It is all one way that's for sure, having no English parliament certainly gives the English a poor deal.

A referendum held today would give Scotland independence by quite some margin I believe.

I wish Scotland would leave today as I'm sick of seeing Scottish mp's mouthing off about soaking the English to pay for higher benefits for the Scottish.

England being the powerhouse of the UK cannot possibly lose by Scotland leaving, the desire to keep the UK together is simply sentimental as the facts say the opposite would be better for the English.