GEML franchise 2016

[BuryBlue]

Well overall I think it's very good. Abellio have been pretty good over the last few years considering what the DFT gave them to play with in the two 2 year direct awards. They couldn't do much and I believe they did as much as they could, despite the people who claim they have been the worst etc etc. Everyone seems to believe their line is the worst.

I'm also very happy Bombardier have won the massive contract to build the fleet or the majority of it anyway. These trains will be built in the UK. Stops orders going off to Italy!

That sort of thing gets blamed on the franchisee because they're the visible component.

In reality this region's problems are investment starvation and having to make do with cast offs. It's fairly remarkable that we managed to avoid Pacers, really.

 

[northwichcat]

RAIL reporting £3.7bn over 9 years.

They paid £187.1m in premiums in 2014/15 so that would be equivalent to £1.68bn over 9 years - so £3.7bn is a huge increase. Although, not a surprise as TPE will go from subsidy receiving to premium paying despite a number of new trains being delivered.

 

[deltic]

They paid £187.1m in premiums in 2014/15 so that would be equivalent to £1.68bn over 9 years - so £3.7bn is a huge increase. Although, not a surprise as TPE will go from subsidy receiving to premium paying despite a number of new trains being delivered.

New trains are cheaper than old and also generate additional patronage - hence why Abellio has gone for a complete fleet renewal and not as claimed by local MPs because they have been lobbying for new trains.

£3.7bn is certainly a hefty premium - it will be interesting to see what get out clauses were negotiated at the last minute due to Brexit

 

[WatcherZero]

Rail says the Aventra will be in a mix of five and ten car lengths.
10 car will be 240m and 5 car 110m. Which suggests different carriage lengths between the two configs. Bombardiers will all be EMU.

Stadler will have 20x12 car emu and 138 vehicles in a mix of three and four length bi-mode.

 

[CC 72100]

Local Rail User group seems annoyed that trains can't be built overnight. I mean it's 2016, how long does it take to build a train?!

Rail users concerned at delay before new trains arrive

Derek Monnery, chairman of the Essex Rail Users Federation, has given his verdict on today's franchise announcement.

He said: "We're not going to get any new trains for three years and it's this interim period which concerns me.

"You've got to try and prop up these trains for three years until new trains come, and that could be a problem."

source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-essex-36850092


I mean the franchise is able to replace stock that other TOCs would be green with envy about, but who needs realism?

 

[Wivenswold]

Rail says the Aventra will be in a mix of five and ten car lengths.
10 car will be 240m and 5 car 110m. Which suggests different carriage lengths between the two configs. Bombardiers will all be EMU.

Stadler will have 5 12 car emu and 138 vehicles in a mix of three and four length bi-mode.

I still can't get my head round how they'll be deployed. I'm assuming 10 cars will replace Intercity and 12 EMUs with a long distance 2+2 seating config, but those 5x 12 bi-modes? Direct Yarmouth & Lowestoft to London peak services? Or perhaps Ely flyers, though they are under wires. So....no. still baffled.

Correction, just read Rail article. Those 20 x 12 Stadlers will surely be for Intercity services then.

 

[northwichcat]

Local Rail User group seems annoyed that trains can't be built overnight. I mean it's 2016, how long does it take to build a train?!

source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-essex-36850092

I mean the franchise is able to replace stock that other TOCs would be green with envy about, but who needs realism?

Especially considering the announcement says they will refresh the existing stock until the new stock arrives - presumably meaning new seat covers and a repaint.

 

[BuryBlue]

Local Rail User group seems annoyed that trains can't be built overnight. I mean it's 2016, how long does it take to build a train?!



source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-essex-36850092


I mean the franchise is able to replace stock that other TOCs would be green with envy about, but who needs realism?

It's fair enough. Currently lots of trains end up short formed or cancelled because of faults.

Back in November nearly all branch services were suspended because of DMU wheel wear, currently the Anglia stock is being worked hard.

 

[CC 72100]

I don't doubt that some of the Anglia fleet isn't stretched (name one TOC apart from SWT who have diesel units a plenty?) but it's the idea that miracles can be done in an interim period and then get brand new trains as well. There will be no spare stock available short term that would be suitable (except some 153s in 18-24 months), so yes, in the meantime things may be difficult. I just expected more a sense of perspective/realism from a Rail Users Group I guess...

 

[BuryBlue]

I still can't get my head round how they'll be deployed. I'm assuming 10 cars will replace Intercity and 12 EMUs with a long distance 2+2 seating config, but those 5x 12 bi-modes? Direct Yarmouth & Lowestoft to London peak services? Or perhaps Ely flyers, though they are under wires. So....no. still baffled.

As someone pointed out recently, since Ipswich-Cambridge is part of East West Rail they will be used there at some point. The bi mode just gives flexibility on the electrification component of the upgrade. Yes to the direct services. Using them on Ely/King's Lynn flyers would only make sense if it were to get around the power shortages there.

Stansted Airport-Norwich will also probably see some use of the bi modes.

If AEA want to restore LST-Peterboro direct services that's another use.

By the sound of it Abellio are being ambitious on what they're going to do.

 

[43074]

Rail says the Aventra will be in a mix of five and ten car lengths.
10 car will be 240m and 5 car 110m. Which suggests different carriage lengths between the two configs. Bombardiers will all be EMU.

Stadler will have 20x12 car emu and 138 vehicles in a mix of three and four length bi-mode.

The 20 12 cars possibly makes sense for some peak only workings I suppose.

 

[BuryBlue]

I don't doubt that some of the Anglia fleet isn't stretched (name one TOC apart from SWT who have diesel units a plenty?) but it's the idea that miracles can be done in an interim period and then get brand new trains as well. There will be no spare stock available short term that would be suitable (except some 153s in 18-24 months), so yes, in the meantime things may be difficult. I just expected more a sense of perspective/realism from a Rail Users Group I guess...

I think it'll just be put up or shut up for a couple more years. It barely makes a dent on the years of under investment, we can cope for a little while longer. The stock we have now will get a short derogation from the disability regulations easily if that's needed (ie for the Mk3s).

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I still can't get my head round how they'll be deployed. I'm assuming 10 cars will replace Intercity and 12 EMUs with a long distance 2+2 seating config, but those 5x 12 bi-modes? Direct Yarmouth & Lowestoft to London peak services? Or perhaps Ely flyers, though they are under wires. So....no. still baffled.

Correction, just read Rail article. Those 20 x 12 Stadlers will surely be for Intercity services then.

Train lengths are important here, don't get too hung up on the number of carriages.

The 10 x 23m car units (240m overall approx) will provide a significant increase in capacity over 12 x 20m car units (250m overall approx) with the loss of four driving cabs and four vestibules providing more furnishable space.

 

[CosherB]

I'm also very happy Bombardier have won the massive contract to build the fleet or the majority of it anyway. These trains will be built in the UK. Stops orders going off to Italy!

Off topic for a moment ....

Would this be the same Japanese company that has a manufacturing site in Italy that has started a joint venture with Bombardier for LU stock? And the same Japanese company that has an extremely busy manufacturing facility in Newton Aycliffe that has orders for hundreds of new build vehicles for the UK, sourcing many components from UK suppliers?

And Bombardier is a Canadian company?

Get real! :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

And Bombardier is a Canadian company?

Bombardier Transportation is a German company which is a subsidy of Bombardier Inc which is of course a Canadian company. Of course the RMT forget that but they complain about a company based in Sunderland who have a German parent getting rail franchise awards.

Also notice how DfT make sure they got a comment from Bombardier for their press release on the Anglia franchise despite the contract not being finalised and don't mention Stadler getting some work as well.

 

[BuryBlue]

Off topic for a moment ....

Would this be the same Japanese company that has a manufacturing site in Italy that has started a joint venture with Bombardier for LU stock? And the same Japanese company that has an extremely busy manufacturing facility in Newton Aycliffe that has orders for hundreds of new build vehicles for the UK, sourcing many components from UK suppliers?

And Bombardier is a Canadian company?

Get real! :roll:

And employs plenty of UK workers. Doesn't really matter where the company is based.

 

[plcd1]

Am I the only person left wondering if these extra services in the new franchise can actually be run on the infrastructure? It's notable that there is no obvious reference to any supporting infrastructure works being needed or even planned to help these services run.

I know STAR's extra track and rejigged stations are funded and there's obviously work happening for Crossrail but what about everywhere else? I don't travel in East Anglia very often so am not up to date but surely there are capacity issues in several locations? There must surely be issues on the WAML and on the approaches to Liverpool St. The extra Abellio trains off peak must rule out the ability of Arriva to run extra Overground off peak services M-F.

I'd be interested if anyone agrees with my musings and equally happy if people wish to correct my thinking by pointing out works that have been done already or which are planned. I'm aware of the overhead replacment / strengthening works on the main line into Essex / Suffolk but beyond that?

 

[chris11256]

On a similar note, will work be needed on the Southend Vic line to handle the new stock? I remember reading somewhere that 360s didn't run to Southend because the power kept tripping out.

 

[grumblingalong]

Well, from my staff point of view it's a pretty spot on bid that answers most of the problems we've been moaning about. Aside from the usual moaners, i'd say we're all pretty pleased for now.

Particularly of note for me is Sudbury services running into Colchester again which will massively boost patronage on the line. Provision of 4 car local units is also great, perfect for busy ipswich/norwich cambridge trips.

Bi modes will have a wide use, with ips-cbg and nrw-cbg services under wires for a fair part of the trip.

Looks good, believe it will still be Abellio Greater Anglia though.

 

[grumblingalong]

This image http://www.railwaygazette.com/fileadmin/user_upload/railwaygazette.com/Pictures/passenger/tn_gb-abellio-eastanglia-fleet-table.jpg from Railway Gazette offers a useful breakdown of units and allocations.

 

[TheEdge]

Particularly of note for me is Sudbury services running into Colchester again which will massively boost patronage on the line. Provision of 4 car local units is also great, perfect for busy ipswich/norwich cambridge trips.

I'd be interested to see how a loss of 2 car units will go down. There are a lot of services were 3 is lightly loaded and 4 would be overkill, plus the 9 platforms (on Norfolk rurals alone) that can't hold 3 cars, let alone however many platforms cant hold 4.

 

[47421]

That Railway Gazette summary table is very interesting.

StanExp going 12 car all day is a very welcome increase in capacity.

How is 10 car going to work on WestAnglia though? Many stations are 8 car max

 

[grumblingalong]

I'd be interested to see how a loss of 2 car units will go down. There are a lot of services were 3 is lightly loaded and 4 would be overkill, plus the 9 platforms (on Norfolk rurals alone) that can't hold 3 cars, let alone however many platforms cant hold 4.

Futureproofing isn't it. Anglia ordered 2 cars for Norwich-Cambridges now look at them. 3 cars replace the 2 cars, 4 cars replace the 3's, with some cooperation from NR regards the platform lengths, no insurmountable problems there.

 

[Harbon 1]

This image http://www.railwaygazette.com/filea...nger/tn_gb-abellio-eastanglia-fleet-table.jpg from Railway Gazette offers a useful breakdown of units and allocations.

This has cleared it up in my mind, thank you!

 

[chubs]

Wonder if the buffet will be saved?!

 

[grumblingalong]

Wonder if the buffet will be saved?!

One of the sets we have in regular service is without it's buffet while it gets converted and, to be honest, the system of two trolleys on board has worked very well.

 

[northwichcat]

This image http://www.railwaygazette.com/fileadmin/user_upload/railwaygazette.com/Pictures/passenger/tn_gb-abellio-eastanglia-fleet-table.jpg from Railway Gazette offers a useful breakdown of units and allocations.

Interesting that single car 153s will be replaced by 3 car DEMUs!

 

[J-2739]

This image http://www.railwaygazette.com/fileadmin/user_upload/railwaygazette.com/Pictures/passenger/tn_gb-abellio-eastanglia-fleet-table.jpg from Railway Gazette offers a useful breakdown of units and allocations.

Interesting. The FLIRTS are shown as an articulated train. I do wonder if they would keep it like this or this is a stock image...

 

[ainsworth74]

Wonder if the buffet will be saved?!

Don't see why not a 12-coach train gives plenty of room to fit one in!

 

[Dave1987]

Off topic for a moment ....

Would this be the same Japanese company that has a manufacturing site in Italy that has started a joint venture with Bombardier for LU stock? And the same Japanese company that has an extremely busy manufacturing facility in Newton Aycliffe that has orders for hundreds of new build vehicles for the UK, sourcing many components from UK suppliers?

And Bombardier is a Canadian company?

Get real! :roll:

So I presume you would have loved for First to have won the franchise, ordered a load more Hitachi trains and the orders to have gone to the Italian plant? I will "get real" when the next Hitachi order goes to NA and not the Italian plant!