GEML franchise 2016

[jopsuk]

Truly "fix" the GEML? The shopping list of expensive things:

Addtional tracks from Bethnal Green to Liverpool Street to take Lea Valley London Overground. Knock down the Broad Street development, build new platforms there, and obviously build on top of it again...
Which then releases the existing most northerly track pair and those platforms to be just West Anglia outers.
From Stratford to Ipswich, an additional pair of tracks. All the way. Allows separation of Metro (ie Crossrail), Suburban/local and Intercity.

 

[BuryBlue]

Truly "fix" the GEML? The shopping list of expensive things:

Addtional tracks from Bethnal Green to Liverpool Street to take Lea Valley London Overground. Knock down the Broad Street development, build new platforms there, and obviously build on top of it again...
Which then releases the existing most northerly track pair and those platforms to be just West Anglia outers.
From Stratford to Ipswich, an additional pair of tracks. All the way. Allows separation of Metro (ie Crossrail), Suburban/local and Intercity.

To be honest though for the money you're talking about you might as well build a new line.

 

[tbtc]

To be honest though for the money you're talking about you might as well build a new line.

Hence HS2 (instead of patching up the WCML over and over again).

What would a new line from London to Essex/ Suffolk/ Norfolk/ Cambridgeshire look like though?

You'd need to take more than just the Norwich services off the current lines, but would a new London - Chelmsford ("high speed"?) line be sufficient to free up capacity on the current GEML?

What other places could a new line link up?

 

[grumblingalong]

Hence HS2 (instead of patching up the WCML over and over again).

What would a new line from London to Essex/ Suffolk/ Norfolk/ Cambridgeshire look like though?

You'd need to take more than just the Norwich services off the current lines, but would a new London - Chelmsford ("high speed"?) line be sufficient to free up capacity on the current GEML?

What other places could a new line link up?

I have always considered a new line from Colchester to be the better option, clearing the bottleneck at Chelmsford.

 

[coppercapped]

What other places could a new line link up?

Hoek van Holland?

 

[ScotGG]

With some half decent planning (in the UK? Ha!) new towns could be placed along any new line which would greatly help with the chronic housing shortage.

But this isn't 19th and 20th century Britain, nor mainland Europe, Asia etc, so such notions are a pipe dream.

 

[BuryBlue]

If you were feeling wild you could have something linking with Crossrail 2; a few years ago there was a clamour for Letchworth style garden cities. You could tie this all in together, and if it were to be included with CR2 you would have the London weight behind it.

If you were to do this it'd probably make more sense to adopt the original idea of an Epping branch due to the route you'd be taking through Eastern England.

If your primary priority is to relieve the GEML, then you'd probably skew the route towards Ipswich, and from there merge with the existing main line and 4 track all the way to Norwich, while avoiding expensive extensions to track within Greater London, and avoiding the problem viaduct, I gather. If you want to serve new towns and grow new commuter prospects you would probably pick a route that intersects Bury St Edmunds (I'm not biased ) and Thetford, and then you could have 2 branches to King's Lynn and Norwich for intercity service. There is * a lot * of space for new towns/garden cities there.

You could have your mix of fast, semi fast etc services on 4 tracks outside of London and then all stations Crossrail within London. Although personally I'd probably speed up journey times a little by either closing very small stations like Theydon Bois or agreeing to keep those services on the Central Line.

Another proposal I've seen thrown around (and also a cheaper option) is to 4 track the WAML and create a new branch from Stansted Airport to somewhere else. One disadvantage of this, though, is finding space for any new services at Liverpool Street. Which is a constraint for the line even now.

I'll put the crayons away now.

 

[dk1]

Goodness me there are some high hopes & aspirations for the new franchise. I'm expecting improvements but let's not expect miracles please. Life would be more disappointing than usual if we put this much hope into anything.

 

[LAX54]

Goodness me there are some high hopes & aspirations for the new franchise. I'm expecting improvements but let's not expect miracles please. Life would be more disappointing than usual if we put this much hope into anything.

Did hear that the refurbed 321's will replace the Mk3 Hauled sets ?

 

[dk1]

Did hear that the refurbed 321's will replace the Mk3 Hauled sets ?

Well I think that is something that is absolutely not happening & never will.

 

[captainbigun]

Well I think that is something that is absolutely not happening & never will.

After last week I don't think anything can be ruled out now.

I can see another management contract or DOR now.

Projections will have been based on increasing footfall, there's no certainty around that, and likely a decrease now. New stock has just become more expensive. Bad time to be having a franchise renewal.

 

[LAX54]

Well I think that is something that is absolutely not happening & never will.

I have heard too (from a driver) that 321's are planned to have 'increased useage' on the Norwich runs,

 

[grumblingalong]

The renatus 321s have long since been rumoured to do a fair bit more work on the London + Ipswich crewed (Norwich don't sign them) mainline services so primarily the 0830 NRW-LST and the 1630 off LST in the evening.

This is purely because the virgin set is going off lease and things might get a bit tight.

321s doing all the Norwich work would not go down well, at all.

 

[dk1]

Yes it's only the loss of the Pretendolino that will cause any 321 substitution. No plans whatsoever for their permanent use now or in the future apart from should the Ipswich stopper be extended north to make it 3tph. Usual trains 06:25/11:30/16:30 down 09:00/14:00/22:00 up. No catering, no Wifi, no power sockets & overcrowded 1st class for passengers to look forward to.

 

[northwichcat]

After last week I don't think anything can be ruled out now.

I can see another management contract or DOR now.

Projections will have been based on increasing footfall, there's no certainty around that, and likely a decrease now. New stock has just become more expensive. Bad time to be having a franchise renewal.

Tony Miles has posted on wnxx that Patrick McLoughlin's claim of hopefully an announcement by the Summer recess is optimistic. With the option of it being announced in the autumn and a short term direct award being considered.

Also it sounds like DfT could award the franchise to a bidder who originally were thought to have not scored highly enough for quality.

With regards to 321s there are effectively 8 sets with Northern off-lease in a few years (the 322s are effectively 321s) and I think the 13 Great Northern ones could be off-lease soon and really Anglia will be the only sensible place to send 21 x 321s.

 

[TheEdge]

Also it sounds like DfT could award the franchise to a bidder who originally were thought to have not scored highly enough for quality.

No. No. No no no no no no no no no, no. Nope. Please, nope. No, no no, no, noo.

That sounds far too much like a National Express bid to me.

Nope.

 

[Sleepy]

No. No. No no no no no no no no no, no. Nope. Please, nope. No, no no, no, noo.

That sounds far too much like a National Express bid to me.

Nope.

Riots in Ipswich / Colchester etc. to follow shortly !!

 

[DasLunatic]

If the Ipswich stoppers are extended to Norwich, are there plans for a call at Needham Market? Or is it too small to be worthwhile?

 

[scott118]

Haven't NX withdrew their bid?

 

[Sleepy]

Haven't NX withdrew their bid?

No - are you thinking of Stagecoach withdrawing from joint bid with Abellio ?

 

[grumblingalong]

If the Ipswich stoppers are extended to Norwich, are there plans for a call at Needham Market? Or is it too small to be worthwhile?

Only if the units were 4 car max or SDO equipped. I can see a small market for those services.

 

[scott118]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/shortlist-for-east-anglia-franchise-announced

Three companies in the running to improve rail services across East Anglia.

 

[deltic]

Tony Miles has posted on wnxx that Patrick McLoughlin's claim of hopefully an announcement by the Summer recess is optimistic. With the option of it being announced in the autumn and a short term direct award being considered.

Also it sounds like DfT could award the franchise to a bidder who originally were thought to have not scored highly enough for quality.

.

My understanding is that the aim is still an announcement this month, risk assessment work continues due to Brexit and the front runner remains the same front runner as before

 

[SPADTrap]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/shortlist-for-east-anglia-franchise-announced

Stagecoach did indeed drop out. Catch up at the back

Take a look when that was published

 

[F Great Eastern]

Lots of speculation about NX on here, and I must add, elsewhere as well.

 

[Sleepy]

Lots of speculation about NX on here, and I must add, elsewhere as well.

 

[306024]

Lots of speculation everywhere, so here's the bet, predict:

Next Prime Minister
Next Labour Party leader
Next England Manager
Next East Anglia franchise holder

You would get good odds on getting all four correct, but which one is most important (nearly typed impotent)

 

[Sleepy]

Lots of speculation everywhere, so here's the bet, predict:

Next Prime Minister
Next Labour Party leader
Next England Manager
Next East Anglia franchise holder

You would get good odds on getting all four correct, but which one is most important (nearly typed impotent)

No. 4 obviously !!

 

[Rick1984]

Rather than turn class153 back into class155; how about adding them to a class 156 formation to form a 3-car hybrid?
Maybe put them in the middle, remove cabs, one luggage rack and the toilet .

 

[DasLunatic]

Rather than turn class153 back into class155; how about adding them to a class 156 formation to form a 3-car hybrid?
Maybe put them in the middle, remove cabs, one luggage rack and the toilet .

Wouldn't work. There are some services in the region (think Marks Tey shuttle on weekends) where a single 153 is enough. Forcing a 170 or a 156 to run there will increase running costs and make the line unprofitable. It'd be nice to have a 170 here though, but I'm not sure the money or stock will stretch far enough to allow it.