GEML franchise 2016

[332 > 444]

I don't know whether this has been posted already but here are some photos of the Stadler Flirt 3 Intercity trains for Polish Railways.

http://serwisy.gazetaprawna.pl/tran...3-nowosc-w-taborze-pkp-intercity-galeria.html

I think the gentle folk of Suffolk and Norfolk will be happy with something like this on the Norwich service.

They look about 3 metres wide! I believe the FLIRT is designed for 200kmph but then upgrades would be needed.

Is there going to be an alliance with Network Rail?

 

[HH]

I'd have thought they'd want First or Stagecoach, since they're both Scottish businesses.

Stagecoach weren't in it and First aren't really Scottish. More to the point, First weren't delivering what TS wanted and the Dutch grass was greener...

 

[Dave1987]

There were rumblings of the line speed being increased to 110mph, but after 'Berlin Wall gate' at Stowmarket it was realised that the sheer costs involved were too great so it was quietly forgotten about.

 

[332 > 444]

There were rumblings of the line speed being increased to 110mph, but after 'Berlin Wall gate' at Stowmarket it was realised that the sheer costs involved were too great so it was quietly forgotten about.

Just looked it up, either they want faster journeys to the capital so they should work to ether to find a way or shiny new trains will be trundling the same way as the 90s & friends are currently. Rip up communities my backside

I guess no workaround solution. Same problems that stopped Airtrack.

 

[86246]

Just looked it up, either they want faster journeys to the capital so they should work to ether to find a way or shiny new trains will be trundling the same way as the 90s & friends are currently. Rip up communities my backside

I guess no workaround solution. Same problems that stopped Airtrack.

To be fair I believe that Stowmarket is the highest populated area on the GEML with level crossings. I know that a new road bridge has been built at the southern end of the station but the council have had several failed attempts at traffic management at that location. Did Network Rail propose any footbridges accessible for wheelchair users as part of the plan otherwise that will be a very lengthy detour.

I doubt that those against the plan are regular rail users anyway.

 

[Robin1966]

Hi guys,

Having heard about the GEML franchise, I've been following this thread with great interest, particularly as I am nearing the end of writing an article about the Stadler FLIRT. Unfortunately, its early days yet, so Abellio can't really say much about the likely UK configuration (which also comes across in this thread actually). Given that's the case, I've been looking at the European FLIRTs in order to get something of an idea of what the UK units will look like.

I therefore have some questions, which I am hoping some of you can answer, particularly as it seems that most of you guys are far more knowledgeable than I am about modern traction (I basically have some catching up to do as most of my knowledge about railways thus far is basically focused on steam).

So, I seem to have read somewhere that the floors of the compartments in FLIRT units are constructed so that they are level with the platform (I believe the articulation with the Jacobs bogies helps with that). However, I am right in thinking that part of the floor in the entrances can be extended out onto the platform in order to enable easier access by wheelchair users?

With regard to the bogies, as I understand it, they consist of two 500 kW power bogies at each end with the other bogies being unpowered Jacobs bogies (supporting the articulation of the carriages). The power bogies are two-axle with air springs based on a welded H-frame where the traction motors are situated...apparently these are 'folly sprung', but I am not actually quite sure that means...

Finally, I also read somewhere that one of the possible safety features is an intercom system that can be used by passengers to contact the driver directly in the event of an emergency. Apparently this feature was fitted by Serbian Railways to their FLIRTs in 2014, but I am just wondering if this is a standard or common fitting or just something that Serbian Railways arranged themselves.

If there is anything else you think I should include, please do say, although I am fairly up together with the rest of it. As far as possible anyway, given that we don't yet know how the UK FLIRTs will be customised.

Cheers

 

[Dave1987]

To be fair I believe that Stowmarket is the highest populated area on the GEML with level crossings. I know that a new road bridge has been built at the southern end of the station but the council have had several failed attempts at traffic management at that location. Did Network Rail propose any footbridges accessible for wheelchair users as part of the plan otherwise that will be a very lengthy detour.

I doubt that those against the plan are regular rail users anyway.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. On the local news they were all basically saying they wanted faster journeys and higher line speeds along the main line but didn't want any of their crossings closed to enable that to happen. Cake and eat it basically. After this the whole line speed increase has never been mentioned again.

 

[asylumxl]

Stagecoach weren't in it and First aren't really Scottish. More to the point, First weren't delivering what FS wanted and the Dutch grass was greener...

Well they might not be, but their headquarters are in Aberdeen. I'd imagine the SNP would rather give the franchise to them as such, but that's another topic entirely.

 

[HH]

Well they might not be, but their headquarters are in Aberdeen. I'd imagine the SNP would rather give the franchise to them as such, but that's another topic entirely.

Their HQ is officially in Aberdeen, but since Sir Moir retired the work has all moved back to London. SNP were actually very hot on going Dutch; for example this visit was ostensibly about cycling, but the minister got to see a number of rail locations as well...

 

[TheEdge]

So, I seem to have read somewhere that the floors of the compartments in FLIRT units are constructed so that they are level with the platform (I believe the articulation with the Jacobs bogies helps with that). However, I am right in thinking that part of the floor in the entrances can be extended out onto the platform in order to enable easier access by wheelchair users?

This seems fairly common on continental units generally. Not sure how it would work in the UK as there is much more variety in platform geometry than seen on the continent. This mostly seems to be down to so much more of Europe's rail network being destroyed during WWII and rebuilt fresh unlike the UK.

Finally, I also read somewhere that one of the possible safety features is an intercom system that can be used by passengers to contact the driver directly in the event of an emergency. Apparently this feature was fitted by Serbian Railways to their FLIRTs in 2014, but I am just wondering if this is a standard or common fitting or just something that Serbian Railways arranged themselves.

Standard passcom. Pretty standard across all new and most older refurbished stock in the UK now.

 

[J-2739]

Hi guys,

Having heard about the GEML franchise, I've been following this thread with great interest, particularly as I am nearing the end of writing an article about the Stadler FLIRT. Unfortunately, its early days yet, so Abellio can't really say much about the likely UK configuration (which also comes across in this thread actually). Given that's the case, I've been looking at the European FLIRTs in order to get something of an idea of what the UK units will look like.

Cheers

Can't wait to see your article!

 

[Carntyne]

Well they might not be, but their headquarters are in Aberdeen. I'd imagine the SNP would rather give the franchise to them as such, but that's another topic entirely.

I doubt the SNP were bothered what country the franchisee was from, so long as it saved the most cash.

 

[dk1]

To be fair I believe that Stowmarket is the highest populated area on the GEML with level crossings. I know that a new road bridge has been built at the southern end of the station but the council have had several failed attempts at traffic management at that location. Did Network Rail propose any footbridges accessible for wheelchair users as part of the plan otherwise that will be a very lengthy detour.

I doubt that those against the plan are regular rail users anyway.

It all kicked off at Stowmarket back in Anglia days. They where celebrating the introduction of a half hourly Intercity service only to find out that they where fast through the town. It was at this point they appeared on BBC Look East complaining about the time level crossings where lowered.

 

[86246]

It all kicked off at Stowmarket back in Anglia days. They where celebrating the introduction of a half hourly Intercity service only to find out that they where fast through the town. It was at this point they appeared on BBC Look East complaining about the time level crossings where lowered.

Yes I remember that. All those additional trains that didn't stop. That was in the days prior to a hourly Cambridge service and the additional freight that passes through today. With the new franchise promising an hourly Peterborough service and 3 trains per hour between Norwich and London ...

 

[jayiscupid]

Hi guys,

Having heard about the GEML franchise, I've been following this thread with great interest, particularly as I am nearing the end of writing an article about the Stadler FLIRT. Unfortunately, its early days yet, so Abellio can't really say much about the likely UK configuration (which also comes across in this thread actually). Given that's the case, I've been looking at the European FLIRTs in order to get something of an idea of what the UK units will look like.

I therefore have some questions, which I am hoping some of you can answer, particularly as it seems that most of you guys are far more knowledgeable than I am about modern traction (I basically have some catching up to do as most of my knowledge about railways thus far is basically focused on steam).

So, I seem to have read somewhere that the floors of the compartments in FLIRT units are constructed so that they are level with the platform (I believe the articulation with the Jacobs bogies helps with that). However, I am right in thinking that part of the floor in the entrances can be extended out onto the platform in order to enable easier access by wheelchair users?

With regard to the bogies, as I understand it, they consist of two 500 kW power bogies at each end with the other bogies being unpowered Jacobs bogies (supporting the articulation of the carriages). The power bogies are two-axle with air springs based on a welded H-frame where the traction motors are situated...apparently these are 'folly sprung', but I am not actually quite sure that means...

Finally, I also read somewhere that one of the possible safety features is an intercom system that can be used by passengers to contact the driver directly in the event of an emergency. Apparently this feature was fitted by Serbian Railways to their FLIRTs in 2014, but I am just wondering if this is a standard or common fitting or just something that Serbian Railways arranged themselves.

If there is anything else you think I should include, please do say, although I am fairly up together with the rest of it. As far as possible anyway, given that we don't yet know how the UK FLIRTs will be customised.

Cheers

The new 12 car Stadler units will be two 6 car articulated trains coupled back to back (in the same way the Polish ones are two 4 car articulated units). They will have 4 power bogies, two under the ends of the driving trailers and two in the centre of the train (coaches 6 & 7). You might find more info on the Stadler website as the general consensus is these trains will be based on the new EC250 Giruno trains that are being developed for Swiss Railways, though with no news from Stadler that's just speculation.

If you look up the new Voralpen trains from Stadler they seem to share the front end design with the UK Intercity version.

Hope some of this helps - Roger Ford's article in the new copy of Modern Railways seems to have a good overview.

 

[hwl]

The new 12 car Stadler units will be two 6 car articulated trains coupled back to back (in the same way the Polish ones are two 4 car articulated units). They will have 4 power bogies, two under the ends of the driving trailers and two in the centre of the train (coaches 6 & 7). You might find more info on the Stadler website as the general consensus is these trains will be based on the new EC250 Giruno trains that are being developed for Swiss Railways, though with no news from Stadler that's just speculation.

If you look up the new Voralpen trains from Stadler they seem to share the front end design with the UK Intercity version.

Hope some of this helps - Roger Ford's article in the new copy of Modern Railways seems to have a good overview.

Sounds like NR's track access charges will be horrific then...
Articulation and very heavy motor bogies given the small number of traction motor overall (12 car is equivalent to 2x 442 motor wise )

 

[Rick1984]

I wondered if that would be the case as the Flirt is offered in up to 6 car units.

 

[asylumxl]

Sounds like NR's track access charges will be horrific then...
Articulation and very heavy motor bogies given the small number of traction motor overall (12 car is equivalent to 2x 442 motor wise )

Previous Flirts have had axle loads of 20.5 t for motored bogies and 19.5t for the Jacob bogies. These are for the 3.2m variant and I'd imagine newer variants will have lighter axle loadings. I'd estimate they'd have roughly the same axle loadings as a 222 or 185 by the time they reach the UK.

 

[swt_passenger]

The new 12 car Stadler units will be two 6 car articulated trains coupled back to back...

Hope some of this helps - Roger Ford's article in the new copy of Modern Railways seems to have a good overview.

Said article confused me at first glance, as he has actually written "will run as six articulated pairs". :roll:

 

[eastwestdivide]

...apparently these are 'folly sprung', but I am not actually quite sure that means...

Typo for "fully spring" I'd imagine.

Much later edit: or even "fully sprung". Doh.

 

[ainsworth74]

Previous Flirts have had axle loads of 20.5 t for motored bogies and 19.5t for the Jacob bogies. These are for the 3.2m variant and I'd imagine newer variants will have lighter axle loadings. I'd estimate they'd have roughly the same axle loadings as a 222 or 185 by the time they reach the UK.

They might do but there is something knocking around at the back of my mind that Network Rail apply a higher charge to articulated vehicles even if the axle loading is the same.

 

[Dave1987]

So the intercity sets are going to be 2x6 car emus, well I can see that going down like a lead balloon!

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm thinking it is two permanently joined half trains, rather than two trains with four cabs. So more like the way Eurostars are a pair of half sets.

Otherwise wouldn't they have announced 20 x 6 car trains each for Intercity and Airport?

 

[WatcherZero]

I thought Ford said they were going to be based on a bi-mode design sold to Italy recently which makes them Flirt3 rather than EC250. These trains seem to be the standard flirt configuration of having a power pack in the centre and doesnt resolve the corridor width question.

 

[Robin1966]

Typo for "fully spring" I'd imagine.

Darn, didn't think of that. Hell, if I as a freelance can bother to get my spelling right, why can't others, particularly if they're staff journalists? Always damn annoying, but maybe I am just picky.

 

[AM9]

So the intercity sets are going to be 2x6 car emus, well I can see that going down like a lead balloon!

So what is wrong with EMUs on a 115 mile journey?

 

[J-2739]

So what is wrong with EMUs on a 115 mile journey?

I suspect he misread the'2X6' part of the articulation discussion, thinking it meant two six-car EMUs instead of 12-car EMUs made up of two six-car halves.

Or maybe he was just joking!

 

[Rick1984]

What sort if lengths we looking at? Can't find anything online.
I imagine there'll be three car lengths;
Driving car
Intermediate Trailer articulated
Centre Trailers, one end standard boogie

 

[dk1]

We've been told fixed formation 12-car EMUs on both the Stansted & Norwich services. In two halves but articulated. Not 2x6 cars just 2 driving cabs in 12 vehicles. The Bi-modes will be 3 & 4 car sets.

 

[Rick1984]

Sorry I should have said individual car lengths. The two driving cars and maybe the two middle cars in the 13car sets will be longer.