GC 180's

[GNERman]

If all passengers from both services can fit onto the one train, where's the problem? I'm sure most would rather just get there, even if it means standing til Doncaster.

Completely agree, passengers get to their destinations... end of... :-x

 

[tbtc]

This (from GC website) would suggest it is STILL causing problems:

"Tuesday 17th May

19:18 Service from London Kings Cross - Sunderland will now depart at 19:48.

19:48 Service from London Kings Cross - Bradford Interchange. This Service will terminate at Doncaster where another Grand Central Service will then go forward to all stations to Bradford.



We apologise for the inconvenience this may cause. "

Unacceptable some might say...

1. GC have applied to get their London - Sunderland service stops at Doncaster

2. GC have not got permission for this

3. GC have started adding Doncaster stops into their Sunderland service by the back door, by cutting some London - Bradford services to start at Doncaster (with the Sunderland service adding an additional stop at Donny to connect)

4. I'm sure this is all just coincidence and not a ploy to claim a business case for a Doncaster - Sunderland market (e.g. GC claiming that its unfair that they can't sell Doncaster - Sunderland tickets now they regularly stop Sunderland trains at Doncaster)...

 

[GNERman]

I can confirm that this is NOT done to stop the Sunderland's at Doncaster purposely for revenue - it is only done when it is needed, other TOC's do SSR's all of the time, so why can't they???...???

 

[wensley]

I don't see why any TOC would winningly f*ck up their stock and crew diagramming, seat reservations etc willingly. GC are trying to find the best way around the issue of low class 180 availability and the use of SSOs at Doncaster allow them to use one less unit with (hopefully) minimal disruption to passengers. As for the argument that they will want to start sell tickets because this is "regular" that is b*llocks. They could'nt sell tickets Sunderland - Doncaster due to the fact that it is not scheduled to call at DON, as the term SPECIAL stop order suggests. Furthermore, it's not as if the fitters and senior management are sitting down weeks in advance saying "Right, we think there'll be lots of passengers going to Doncaster on X date, lets make sure 180xxx fails on Crofton then, I know, we can sell loads of GC Only SUN-DON tickets, we could even put in the mechanical difficulties on the website 2 weeks in advance to let everyone know...." Not quite like that is it?! With regards to crewing it's a nightmare as well as disruption to 1N29's timings along the whole route, GC are doing this to offer the highest possible level of service on BOTH routes regardless of 180 faults , this is the solution.

 

[tbtc]

I don't see why any TOC would winningly f*ck up their stock and crew diagramming, seat reservations etc willingly. GC are trying to find the best way around the issue of low class 180 availability and the use of SSOs at Doncaster allow them to use one less unit with (hopefully) minimal disruption to passengers. As for the argument that they will want to start sell tickets because this is "regular" that is b*llocks. They could'nt sell tickets Sunderland - Doncaster due to the fact that it is not scheduled to call at DON, as the term SPECIAL stop order suggests. Furthermore, it's not as if the fitters and senior management are sitting down weeks in advance saying "Right, we think there'll be lots of passengers going to Doncaster on X date, lets make sure 180xxx fails on Crofton then, I know, we can sell loads of GC Only SUN-DON tickets, we could even put in the mechanical difficulties on the website 2 weeks in advance to let everyone know...." Not quite like that is it?! With regards to crewing it's a nightmare as well as disruption to 1N29's timings along the whole route, GC are doing this to offer the highest possible level of service on BOTH routes regardless of 180 faults , this is the solution.

As I say, I'm sure its coincidence that they are putting "special" stops at Doncaster onto a service that they want to stop there regularly.

Given the poor reliability of GC stock which has caused all of this, should they really be getting the fourth Sunderland slot on a Sunday? Or should the stock get an extra day to recover?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

tbtc, its usually the Sunderland ones that perform well.
Its usually the Bradfords (and the 180s) which struggle - so I see no reason why they shouldnt get the extra Sunday slot.

 

[wensley]

Well the HST fleet is available now, 3 sets have been out on some days in the past weeks, just about allowing the 180s to stay at current availability levels (preferably only one on depot at Heaton). 180s have been unreliable for all operators. 105 is the worst but the other's aren't great, they all have their quirks. 112 (touch wood) has been one of the better ones but reliability is still shockingly low...

 

[hougtimo]

I was talking to a driver at FHT who reckons their fleet are averaging >30k miles between failures at the moment? Is this right?

 

[rmt-driver]

Can the HST sets run the Bradfords?? If not, why not?

 

[ainsworth74]

As far as I know they have now been cleared to run through to Bradford but I don't think there are any plans for them to actually do so.

 

[Lampshade]

Can the HST sets run the Bradfords?? If not, why not?

They originally weren't cleared from Wakefield Kirkgate through to Bradford. Under BR they never went via Brighouse so no grandfather rights.

 

[Pumbaa]

I was talking to a driver at FHT who reckons their fleet are averaging >30k miles between failures at the moment? Is this right?

Sounds towards the right direction. Expect that figure to climb as the 180s return to fGW later this year, and (apparently) a common fleet will be formed for both fHT and fGW at OOC.

 

[cj_1985]

Sounds towards the right direction. Expect that figure to climb as the 180s return to fGW later this year, and (apparently) a common fleet will be formed for both fHT and fGW at OOC.

atleast for as long as First still operate the GW franchise..

 

[Pumbaa]

True!

 

[Adam_Harrison]

If the 180s go from Grand Central what will they get to replace them ?

 

[Skimble19]

180's aren't leaving GC, it's the 3 currently on hire from EC to Northern as well as the two that EC aren't using that are going to FGW

 

[Adam_Harrison]

ahh i see!

 

[wensley]

They originally weren't cleared from Wakefield Kirkgate through to Bradford. Under BR they never went via Brighouse so no grandfather rights.

HSTs have now got the necessary clearance to work into Interchange. The overhaul programme has seen the Mk3 stock fitted with SDO for operation on short platforms (as found on the BDI route, particularly HFX). However, only one Bradford driver, was 2 until one transferred, sign HSTs with a similarly low number of Senior Conductors trained on the stock. At current there are no plans to carry out training and permit use on BDI due to the cost of the staff training required.

With regards to 180s vanishing, they aren't (possibly unfortunately!!). Work is still required to get reliability to an acceptable level, the figure of 30K is probably about right as an average, some units are far better than that but some far worse, some uniformity is needed!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just looking at the new schedules doing the connection at Doncaster on a morning could be a bit tight. 1A59 (0651 ex-BDI) is booked into Doncaster at 0829. 1A61 (0645 ex-SUN) passes just 10mins later, all sorts of potential for even worse delays should, for example, A59 lose just a few minutes.