GC 180's

[junglejames]

Electric generator/motor fitting wouldn't be Voith's thing, if asked they would probably rather try to fix their own kit rather than rip it out and replace it with someone elses gear. That sort of replacement work would be best left with Alstom - could you imagine taking your Audi back to the Audi dealer and saying "I don't like this modern Audi engine, can you fit a GM pushrod-V6 instead?" They'd tell you to get lost I'm sure, regardless of whether it's a positive or negative change.



That is a shame, it would do their image and reputation no harm at all to try and fix their product, even if it is a box full of other manufacturers' tricks (Voith, Cummins, SKF [bearings?]) they seem to do a decent enough job looking after the Pendolinos, although there are 50-odd sets and more ££ involved..

Yeah it is strange why Virgin seem to get on with them ok. Unless it isnt all as rosy as it seems. FGW definitely had a bad experience though. Shame, because as said before, they could have got a lot more orders if they had done something with the 180s.

 

[TomJ93]

I know! Fix the engines and make it an DEMU. Then we have a 5-car IEP rival

Alstom manage the Pendos well, just think back to all the glass replacements they had to do in January this year.

 

[Lampshade]

Do GC use the hydrodynamic brake or is it isolated?

 

[Skimble19]

(this might be of interest, especially the B&W mock up of the livery!)

Very interesting! The text seems to think they're with FNW, whilst the picture shows a 180 with FGW branding, and the diagram shows Great Western Trains livery (well, NWT livery, with Great Western on it)!

 

[wensley]

Continuing disruption as a result of this failure. 1A61 cancelled this morning!

 

[Capybara]

That's a shame. Both my trips over the weekend were well-patronised. The £39 offer seemed to be bringing the punters in to the Bradford service. A pity that reliability issues have turned up in the middle of the promotion.

 

[wensley]

One of the staff was saying that the promo was getting plenty of people on board and spending, which is what its all about! The trains I've been on in the last few weeks (even N25!!) have been very busy. It is a real pain that a 180 dropped out in this busy period, would be interesting to know how long it is likely to be before repairs are effected.

 

[sprinterguy]

my theory is that in 5 to 10 years they'll be transfered lock stock and 5 smoking engines each to northern for capacity increases and that there mid life refurb wil see them internally redesigned with comuter runs in mind.

It’s no good internally redesigning them for commuter traffic when they aren’t mechanically or externally suited to such services (23 metre carriages, end doors, high gearing not suited to regular station stops, dodgy transmission not really adept for such work either). Though it is difficult to know just what to do with them, especially since what is a very small fleet of trains anyway has been dispersed to the four winds. I’m not optimistic about their longevity and long term prospects. Sending them to ATW to allow them to be maintained at Alstoms’ Chester depot, which has at least done a reasonable job of getting the 175s to work fairly well after their woeful introduction, might be a step in the right direction.

Or being really drastic, what about de-engining fifteen of the intermediate vehicles and inserting them into the two carriage 175s as trailers? Giving thirty 3-carriage 175s, and thirteen higher powered four carriage 180s.

 

[feliner]

I think the engines on 180s are mounted on their sides, whether the same applies to 221/222s i am not sure.

 

[Adam_Harrison]

I don't think Grand Central would really like 4 car 180s on the North Eastern route :')!

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't think Grand Central would really like 4 car 180s on the North Eastern route :')!

Yeah true enough, I was thinking more of 5-10 years down the line, with the posibility that GC might be procuring new rolling stock at that point: The HSTs will have to be replaced at some point if the mark 3s aren't to go through a major modification to make them compliant with updated disability regulations, so perhaps we'll finally see the long promised "Polaris" trains replacing the current GC fleet.

 

[jopsuk]

GC proposing to buy "polaris" trains went dead when yeowart left GC; it's now his (currently not-very-healthy) LNWR porposal that are proposing Polaris.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I agree that there not suited to commuter work but I think what we'll see is no long distance opperator wanting them and them being simply drafted in as extra capacity for someone like northern. I suppose if the whole fleat were transfered to ATW the Wag express could use them but the lack of restaurant facilities would put them off I guess?

 

[driver9000]

Very interesting! The text seems to think they're with FNW, whilst the picture shows a 180 with FGW branding, and the diagram shows Great Western Trains livery (well, NWT livery, with Great Western on it)!

The 180s were originally ordered for North Western Trains but were switched to GW before they were built and delivered. The text may have been written at the time of the original order when they were to be NWT sets and was somehow missed when the text was changed.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think keep the whole fleet of 180's on ECML with the majority already there.


Yes it would appear alliance rail are not doing very well at the moment, have they had any feedback on the ECML routes or have all been rejected?

 

[route:oxford]

Start to go wrong? Start?

But seriously I agree in about 10 years maybe a little less the 180s are going to need a mid-life refurb. Will it be worth it bearing in mind their chronic reliability problems and the fact that it is a really small fleet? Personally I have some serious doubts as to the longevity of this particular class.

As the 180s have been in service for at least a decade, doesn't this make them "heritage units" already?

 

[ainsworth74]

As the 180s have been in service for at least a decade, doesn't this make them "heritage units" already?

If 180s are 'heritage units' then what does that make 313s or 142s hock:

 

[Lampshade]

If 180s are 'heritage units' then what does that make 313s or 142s hock:

Relics.

 

[Eng274]

If 180s are 'heritage units' then what does that make 313s or 142s hock:

"That belongs in a museum!!"

Indiana Jones, Last Crusade

 

[IanXC]

As the 180s have been in service for at least a decade, doesn't this make them "heritage units" already?

Reading this thread earlier had me thinking about the "Adelante Preservation Society"...

 

[Eng274]

Reading this thread earlier had me thinking about the "Adelante Preservation Society"...

The exotic name sounds more like a campaign to restore a Tuscany cathedral

 

[junglejames]

Reading this thread earlier had me thinking about the "Adelante Preservation Society"...

Sounds nearly as unlikely as a pacer preservation so.... oh wait.............

 

[Nym]

If 180s are 'heritage units' then what does that make 313s or 142s hock:

I can discribe the latter in one word, begins in S ends in T and it isn't soot...

 

[jon0844]

I... alerted an on-train host to the problem, who didn't seem as concerned as me.

It's a 180. He probably thought 'oh, that again!'.

And, Nym, I won't accept a 313 and 142 being mentioned in the same sentence!!! Refresh a 313 (as Southern has) and I'd be happy to continue using it for many more years.. but a 142 should have been aborted before birth!

 

[Aictos]

It's a 180. He probably thought 'oh, that again!'.

And, Nym, I won't accept a 313 and 142 being mentioned in the same sentence!!! Refresh a 313 (as Southern has) and I'd be happy to continue using it for many more years.. but a 142 should have been aborted before birth!

Agreed, I've seen the Southern 313s up close but not yet travelled on them and they look like new trains although with no toilets.

As much as I prefer the interior's of the former Silverlink/London Overground 313s in use with FCC to the interiors of the former WAGN 313s in use with FCC, I would love to see the FCC 313s refurbished to the Southern interior.

 

[rmt-driver]

Is this unit still causing problems??

Don't GC have any spare trains available?

 

[wensley]

There is normally one unit spare or on exam. To be honest I haven't seen 180105 out since its problem but I also haven't heard how repairs are going...

 

[rmt-driver]

There is normally one unit spare or on exam. To be honest I haven't seen 180105 out since its problem but I also haven't heard how repairs are going...

This (from GC website) would suggest it is STILL causing problems:

"Tuesday 17th May

19:18 Service from London Kings Cross - Sunderland will now depart at 19:48.

19:48 Service from London Kings Cross - Bradford Interchange. This Service will terminate at Doncaster where another Grand Central Service will then go forward to all stations to Bradford.



We apologise for the inconvenience this may cause. "

Unacceptable some might say...

 

[GNERman]

I don't see how "unacceptable" is right...

Would you rather have the WHOLE service cancelled???...???...???...???...???

 

[Eng274]

If all passengers from both services can fit onto the one train, where's the problem? I'm sure most would rather just get there, even if it means standing til Doncaster.