GBR First Class

[zwk500]

That's where train classification comes in. Every railway in Europe bar the UK has it. If those were REs and the IETs were IC you would know exactly what you were getting.

This is a key point. Expectation management is going to be key as the railway *cannot* be all things to all people.

I would expect full-service 1st to stay on the key IC routes, but for Standard Premium to become the more common option on Regional services, with many outer commuter services going to 1 class only (based on LNR and thameslink declassifying most/all of 1st class without 'standard premium' replacement). Worth noting many employer's travel policies now will allow standard premium but not 1st class.
To do this sensibly will require classification so that people know 'ICE' trains are the only ones with proper first class, and that potentially the Metro/S-train services to have no first class at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, but not the same as anyone else, e.g. GWML, MML. I’d also bet that the onboard equipment would be expensive to harmonise along with the logistics chain that supplies each operator.

I don't think I would see much of a difference between Euston-Brum and St P-Nottingham to be honest. These shorter runs would demand a lesser offering (and perhaps some particularly long ones like Penzance, Glasgow, Edinburgh and in particular the Chieftain and Aberdeen runs might demand more) but of course sensible countries use train categorisation to differentiate the offerings in that regard. At one point in BR days there was a different category, with some of these shorter runs being ICS ie InterCity Shuttle.

While I'd like to see buffets retrofitted to all 80x I can't see that happening, but the idea of the actual offering (i.e. what is on sale/free in 1st) being basically the same doesn't seem impossible.

Suppliers can change as contracts expire. GBR is clearly still going to be the TOCs to start with, but it doesn't have to stay like that.

 

[NCT]

I don't think I would see much of a difference between Euston-Brum and St P-Nottingham to be honest. These shorter runs would demand a lesser offering (and perhaps some particularly long ones like Penzance, Glasgow, Edinburgh and in particular the Chieftain and Aberdeen runs might demand more) but of course sensible countries use train categorisation to differentiate the offerings in that regard. At one point in BR days there was a different category, with some of these shorter runs being ICS ie InterCity Shuttle.

While I'd like to see buffets retrofitted to all 80x I can't see that happening, but the idea of the actual offering (i.e. what is on sale/free in 1st) being basically the same doesn't seem impossible.

Suppliers can change as contracts expire. GBR is clearly still going to be the TOCs to start with, but it doesn't have to stay like that.

A sensible fleet strategy is a uniform / interchangeable fleet for all WCML IC, and a uniform / interchangeable fleet for all ECML IC, as happens currently. This means Birmingham and Grantham passengers benefit from an interior layout designed for Anglo-Scottish, while Nottingham and Sheffield do not. All entirely logical.

 

[Snow1964]

This is a key point. Expectation management is going to be key as the railway *cannot* be all things to all people.

But it doesn't have to be so inconsistent either, First class on a national railway should be similar quality whichever part of UK you live.

I would expect full-service 1st to stay on the key IC routes, but for Standard Premium to become the more common option on Regional services, with many outer commuter services going to 1 class only

This is where it gets messy, eg the nationalised SWR has some early morning, late evening and Sunday trains that take over 3 hours from Weymouth-Waterloo, but get completely different First class quality from trains serving North Dorset to Waterloo taking same time (444s have 2+2 First class, 159s 2+1 First class.

If can't even get same standards from north Dorset to London as South Dorset to London with same Operator, what hope is there of getting standard quality across England

To do this sensibly will require classification so that people know 'ICE' trains are the only ones with proper first class, and that potentially the Metro/S-train services to have no first class at all.

Most people wouldn't classify a 159 as 'ICE' equivalent, but then compare it to a 1 hour 50 min journey Kings Cross-Lincoln on LNER where First class includes free food.

I don't think I would see much of a difference between Euston-Brum and St P-Nottingham to be honest. These shorter runs would demand a lesser offering

So is under 2 hours, commuter, regional or InterCity standard. and as indicated above there are 3+ hour journeys with worse offering to London from within same county. Why should someone travelling from near Exeter to London get different standard to someone from Birmingham or Nottingham

While I'd like to see buffets retrofitted to all 80x I can't see that happening, but the idea of the actual offering (i.e. what is on sale/free in 1st) being basically the same doesn't seem impossible.

Of course 80x is just one type of train, it gets even more complicated where same type of train is used, but standards vary by route, compare Cardiff-London and Cardiff-Exeter, both 80x, both sharing same track thoughout Wales but completely different quality in English part.

I think if it is to still exist the commuter firsts (Southern, Thameslink, etc) should be re-ranked to Standard Premium, since they definitely are nowhere near the first class offered by InterCity operators.

Its not just the commuter operators, and it's questionable if some Thameslink services are commuter or nearer regional, Cambridge-Brighton is not that much different to Exeter-Cardiff via commuter hub of Bristol

I could easily see a three tier system of Standard/Standard Premium/First, where first is only true first (2+1 seating, better seats (from at least the majority perspective), food included (or cooked meals available at an additional fee as per TfW)).

I have no problem with 3 classes, but at least make them the same standard and what you get for each wherever you are in the country


Actually Cardiff is probably one of the worst examples of quality variation on trains to destinations 2-3 hours from it.
80x to London, First, Catering
387 to London, feels more like inner suburban standard
80x to Exeter, First, no Catering
158 or 16x to Portsmouth, no First, no Catering, regularly unrepaired a/c longer duration than above, the 158s were regional, the 165 are surplus inner suburban commuter stock, still configured as such, why are they on long routes ?
170 to Birmingham (XC) as little as 2 coach, maybe 3 or 4, lucky to get a seat sometimes, are they really suitable for 3+ hour inter city services
22x voyager via Birmingham, infrequent but in different league to 170s
197 to Pembrokeshire or Manchester, intermediate premier class planned, never introduced, is it a regional train or downgraded to a commuter DMU
67+mk4s to Holyhead or Manchester, where do I start with comparing it to a 197 that shares same route.

GBR is anything but national in its quality of First or Standard or catering standarisation on 2.5 - 4 hours services