GBR and "TOC specific" fares

[Bletchleyite]

As an aside, under nationalised rail will we lose these train specific tickets (eg the aforesaid returns from Milton Keynes to London)?

Most likely just cheaper Advances on the local services on sale up to departure, but really it's anyone's guess. When MKC goes onto contactless that won't be able to have TOC specific contactless fares, though - I suspect that complexity is why they put the end at Bletchley for now.

I suppose GTR provide a template for brand specific walk up fares, controversial though that is.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

My test case is Liverpool to Manchester, which has two routes (via Newton le Willows or via Warrington Central, both routes having a mixture of slow and fast (or at least semi-fast) trains) and 3 operators (Northern, TPE and EMR). I can see a customer benefit in being able to buy entirely flexible (any route, any speed, any operator) tickets or cheaper ones restricted by operator and/or route and/or speed (stopping pattern). But that way complexity lies (and indeed already exists). I do wonder if a choice of fully flexible but expensive on the one hand against train specific but cheap (Advance in today's terminology) on the other would adequately cover most customer needs - that is, would anyone really miss tickets that you can only use on one (Northern) operator?

And once we've got that one sorted we can go on to Liverpool to Chester...

 

[JonathanH]

My test case is Liverpool to Manchester, which has two routes (via Newton le Willows or via Warrington Central, both routes having a mixture of slow and fast (or at least semi-fast) trains) and 3 operators (Northern, TPE and EMR).

I do wonder if a choice of fully flexible but expensive on the one hand against train specific but cheap (Advance in today's terminology) on the other would adequately cover most customer needs - that is, would anyone really miss tickets that you can only use on one (Northern) operator?

Liverpool to Manchester is the sort of flow where most passengers would simply want the convenience of London-style PAYG with one level of peak and one level of off-peak rates, and to be charged a reasonable single fare, removing all types of confusion about advances, operator specific tickets and peak time restrictions.

I can see a customer benefit in being able to buy entirely flexible (any route, any speed, any operator) tickets or cheaper ones restricted by operator and/or route and/or speed (stopping pattern). But that way complexity lies (and indeed already exists).

There is a level of customer benefit involved in having cheaper fares, but as you say, it just increases confusion at many levels for many stakeholders.

 

[WAB]

I'm tempted to think that operator-specific fares will disappear in favour of suitably different advances. I think this is a retrograde step, to be honest. But there will always need to be some mechanism for pricing passengers off the busier/faster/more comfortable services to maintain space for longer distance services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And once we've got that one sorted we can go on to Liverpool to Chester...

Those are geographically routed anyway.

 

[Meerkat]

Liverpool to Manchester is the sort of flow where most passengers would simply want the convenience of London-style PAYG with one level of peak and one level of off-peak rates, and to be charged a reasonable single fare, removing all types of confusion about advances, operator specific tickets and peak time restrictions.

Most passengers doing that bit maybe, but passengers using the fast services for longer distance would probably rather have commuters priced onto the commuter services provided for them.

 

[miami]

I'm expecting the £54 flexible returns from Manchester to London to be binned, and for the general public to sing about how great it is. Whenever I mention these fares on reddit people refuse to acknowledge them, they don't care about cheap fares, they just want to complain about perceived privatisation problems. I wonder what they'll blame when GBR charge £386 return.

Still, those people win, those of us who do a tiny bit of investigation end up having to spend a fortune more, but this will be a victory somehow.

 

[PG]

Whenever I mention these fares on reddit people refuse to acknowledge them,

Probably because they involve changing trains and incur a time penalty but mostly because they won't easily appear on apps or TVMs so therefore they don't believe that they exist.

 

[miami]

Probably because they involve changing trains and incur a time penalty

End to end time is similar to the direct through trains in the "good old BR days" in 1994, when a Saver Return was £44.50 (or about £90 return today)

 

[Belperpete]

Liverpool to Manchester is the sort of flow where most passengers would simply want the convenience of London-style PAYG with one level of peak and one level of off-peak rates, and to be charged a reasonable single fare, removing all types of confusion about advances, operator specific tickets and peak time restrictions.

There is a level of customer benefit involved in having cheaper fares, but as you say, it just increases confusion at many levels for many stakeholders.

Agreed. London PAYG already has a number of cases where there are fast and slow services (Wembley Park to Baker Street, Victoria to East Croydon, etc) that seem to work well.