[Gatwick] Express: You must now buy tickets before boarding.

[GodAtum]

As a regular commuter to Victoria I'd rather the tourists take the Gatwick Express so there is more room on the Southern trains.

 

[Brucey]

I hear there are ticket barriers being installed at Victoria/Gatwick for the Gatwick Express platforms... should I expect trouble when using my oyster travelcard season and Clapham Junction-Gatwick (RTE Not London) SDS ticket next month?

Oyster isn't valid at Gatwick Airport, so the barriers don't have Oyster readers at Gatwick. I assume they will be fitted at Victoria, as standalone readers are already present on the platform.

All platforms at GTW are being gated. On Saturday, I saw the exit footbridge has been gated (two wide gates, one standard) but not yet in operation. The entrance area from the main ticket hall has not yet been gated. AFAIK, no work has started at GTW yet.

 

[pF]

I agree, although it already isn't a dedicated service at 'peak' times!

Well, Gatwick Express is Southern (SN), but I know what you mean

Southern Only tickets are valid on the Gatwick Express route operated by Southern (source: NRCoC & DfT), and now there's no on board checks, there will be no-one to charge an excess if the person checking the tickets doesn't agree (forum members have had a mixed reaction to using Southern Only tickets: some were charged, and later refunded in full & compensated, while others were not charged).

Southern Only tickets might well be valid on the Gatwick Express, but Gatwick Express's on-train announcements before departure at Gatwick claim that they are not, and advise that passengers with Southern tickets get off the Express and board a Southern train instead.

 

[swt_passenger]

Today's Railway UK have cottoned on to this 'Southern only' fares debate, and their article's simple solution is to mark the tickets 'Not GatEx'.

Sorry chaps, but I think you'll find that would lead to a bit of an issue with FGW and FCC...

 

[Minstral25]

As a regular commuter to Victoria I'd rather the tourists take the Gatwick Express so there is more room on the Southern trains.

As regular commuter on Southern - I'd prefer Southern to use the four paths an hour each way with trains that actually get me somewhere and I'll take a chance on the odd tourist.

As it is they are not using the GatEx as most have brains to find the cheaper routes and hence my commuter train is already full of there suitcases

GatEx = White Elephant

 

[<name here>]

I'm not sure there's enough space at Gatwick to put barriers in without causing a lot of congestion at the station. I doubt they'd fit more than 3 or 4 sets in the ticket hall unless they have them at the top of each set of stairs leading to the platforms. The exit stairs just lead into a corridor so not much space there either.

Today's Railway UK have cottoned on to this 'Southern only' fares debate, and their article's simple solution is to mark the tickets 'Not GatEx'.

Sorry chaps, but I think you'll find that would lead to a bit of an issue with FGW and FCC...

If you buy a ticket to London from Crawley, Three Bridges or Gatwick they are marked not Gatwick Express if they're not Southern or FCC only. Doesn't solve the Southern Only problem though...

 

[ushawk]

Id prefer 2 GatEx an hour to be extended fast to Brighton and use the 2 spare paths for an additional service towards the coast (Maybe 1 fast East Coastway and 1 fast West Coastway) or have 2 to Brighton and 2 to each Coastway.

Or just end the GatEx completely, move the Brighton Fasts to 15/45 - and add in a stop at Gatwick, move the Littlehampton to Eastbourne/Ore trains to 00/30. The 17 minutes past could be an additional West Coastway calling at Clapham, East Croydon, Gatwick, Three Bridges, Horsham, Littlehampton, Barnham and Bognor. The 47 minutes past to Hastings running as the above until Gatwick, then Lewes, Eastbourne, Bexhill, St Leonards and Hastings.

 

[O L Leigh]

Don't understand the fuss about the gateline here. We've had this arrangement on StanEx for a while now, although admittedly without the complication of express and non-express fares. But the principle remains that you buy your ticket BEFORE boarding, the same as you would for any other train service. Many passengers, even those arriving from foreign climes, are now using the online purchasing option and printing their tickets on arrival.

I'm a little surprised that gates are going into Gatwick Airport station itself. There were rumblings of a similar nature at Stansted, but the station there is owned and managed by BAA and not Nitwit Rail/TOC and they were not keen on the idea.

As for what happened to the GatEx on-train staff, I believe quite a few of them now work for us.

O L Leigh

 

[Minstral25]

I'm with O L Leigh don't understand the fuss. GatEx is like any other train now but I suppose usage may go up as tourists will be stung for higher fares and directed by gateline staff to the GatEx rather than the commuter trains.

Do think that GatEx and Brighton Express should be merged - stopping at East Croydon only before Gatwick. I like the idea of two per hour to Brighton and then an Eastbourne fast and a Littlehampton fast in the other quarters. All should call ECR, Gatwick and Haywards Heath then as per the normal services.

The GatEx premium should also be scrapped and they become normal Southern services. Heathrow Express should go the same way merging into Crossrail.

 

[island]

Don't understand the fuss about the gateline here. We've had this arrangement on StanEx for a while now, although admittedly without the complication of express and non-express fares. But the principle remains that you buy your ticket BEFORE boarding, the same as you would for any other train service. Many passengers, even those arriving from foreign climes, are now using the online purchasing option and printing their tickets on arrival.

SSD is not a penalty fares station so one can conceivably buy Anytime fares on-board.

 

[Wolfie]

I'm with O L Leigh don't understand the fuss. GatEx is like any other train now but I suppose usage may go up as tourists will be stung for higher fares and directed by gateline staff to the GatEx rather than the commuter trains.

Do think that GatEx and Brighton Express should be merged - stopping at East Croydon only before Gatwick. I like the idea of two per hour to Brighton and then an Eastbourne fast and a Littlehampton fast in the other quarters. All should call ECR, Gatwick and Haywards Heath then as per the normal services.

The GatEx premium should also be scrapped and they become normal Southern services. Heathrow Express should go the same way merging into Crossrail.

My bold and italics

I think BAA which owns the track from Hayes and Harlington to Heathrow and also the Heathrow Express service may just have an issue.....

Gatwick Express continued due to MASSIVE political pressure from the shiny new owners of Gatwick Airport who felt that the loss of a dedicated service would be commercially damaging to them. Given the Govt is now pushing more use of Gatwick they may well be right.

 

[LexyBoy]

I think BAA which owns the track from Hayes and Harlington to Heathrow and also the Heathrow Express service may just have an issue.....

Indeed they may - it is still the case that HeX would be better off merging with Crossrail though. The current arrangement is frankly ridiculous - HeX takes up 4 paths per hour which could otherwise be used for trains on the GWML. This was brought up in the latest Western Region RUS.

I can't see much demand for HeX after Crossrail starts - it would be faster for most destinations to take Crossrail and change in central London. If push came to shove I suppose BAA could be offered a choice - HeX and no Crossrail link at Heathrow, or Crossrail but no HeX...

Gatwick Express continued due to MASSIVE political pressure from the shiny new owners of Gatwick Airport who felt that the loss of a dedicated service would be commercially damaging to them. Given the Govt is now pushing more use of Gatwick they may well be right.

If it's well loaded then I see no problem with GatEx continuing (though the ticketing fiasco should be sorted). If it's taking up paths that could be better used on other fast services (as suggested by the extensions to Brighton), then I'd suggest a rebranding exercise with all non-stop trains from Gatwick to London (and v/v) stopping at an "Express" platform (or pair of platforms on an island). That way services could be combined with commuter services, without the need for a dedicated service running at 15 minute frequency when it's not needed, and giving a higher overall frequency.

 

[ushawk]

Its not even really Gatwick Express now, more just "Express". Only problem ive thought of with extending 1 GatEx an hour to the West Coastway is that are they cleared to go via the Arun Valley ? And GIP (Gatwick owners) probably wont be happy to not having a non-stop service to Gatwick and the Brighton services cant run fast to Gatwick as then Brighton would only have 1tph to Clapham. Id of thought stopping at 2 major South London stations with good connections is better than running non-stop, makes the Airport more accessible.

Also, i would have said send the 1tph West Coastway "Express" via Hove and Worthing, because with it being a faster service, it would most likely get stuck behind a stopper. Maybe have a connecting shuttle to Littlehampton at Barnham so it isnt far off 3tph to London.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think BAA which owns the track from Hayes and Harlington to Heathrow and also the Heathrow Express service may just have an issue.....

The BAA (as Heathrow Airport Limited) response to the London and SE RUS consultation is not as negative as you might expect. Their position is that they do want to discuss running a HEx service via Crossrail while attempting to maintain a high quality service.

HEX Ltd, have more explicit objections, but I suggest their parent company's opinion is more realistic...

Links here: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ondon and South East\Consultation responses\H

 

[jopsuk]

I think it's oiw reaching a stage where ideally the special "Express" fare should be ended, and Bombardier Derby forced into supplying a lot more 377s than Southern are currently after to cover the "Express" services (along with the units Southern want for inner london, and a few more to replace the 313s).

 

[Goldfish62]

Well, basically for every other train in the country you buy a ticket on boarding,

Not Heathrow Express...

 

[Deerfold]

Not Heathrow Express...

Why not?

You'll pay more than buying in advance but you can buy on board.

 

[shinkansen1966]

More ways to buy. . .
* Online
* Ticket vending machines
* Ticket office"

Certainly sets Gatwick Express apart. I'm struggling to think of others who don't sell their tickets online, at vending machines or at ticket machines.

Seriously, who comes up with this nonsense ?

 

[O L Leigh]

SSD is not a penalty fares station so one can conceivably buy Anytime fares on-board.

Yes I know that. However, passengers are being steered away from that because it ties up the grippers and prevents them from getting right through the train.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

I used the Gatwick Express tonight, and it was an original GatEx service - so still branded Gatwick Express. My god the train was noisy - with weird noises coming through the PA system in a weird pulsing fashion that suggested some electrical disturbance/interference.

Not only that, but while the platform said you couldn't buy tickets onboard (as well as inside the building), the train happily said you can buy on the train and pay by cash, credit card or cheque - and someone would be along soon. It also said that some tickets may not be valid and to ask for assistance. Nobody came through, so I never had to test my Gatwick to Coulsdon South & Z1-6 TC combination (marked any permitted and satisfying the NRCoC rules by one being a zonal/season ticket).

What was annoying is that I asked for a Gatwick to Boundary Zone 6 and got the above.. when we've discussed before that you CAN issue tickets to BZ6 from outside the zones going in, just as you can from BZ6 to <station>. I know the difference is slight (10-20p perhaps), but there's a difference nonetheless. What's more, I asked the lady at the ticket office for 'A single to Boundary Zone 6 with a Gold Card discount' and she immediately said '£3.50'. The ticket was not marked BZ6, so it's not what I asked for! I didn't bother to say anything as arguing over a small amount would have meant missing the next fast train.

When you come off the trains at Gatwick, there are now four new gates fitted (two wide, two normal) but the gates to go into the station aren't yet installed. I should have counted, but I'd say there were 6 or 7 gates. Each gate (well, white wooden box where the gates will be) had a member of staff - of which one, the man on the far left, had a ticket machine.

They stopped anyone from going through without buying a ticket, but didn't actually check the tickets. As long as you waved something that looked like a ticket, they were happy!

 

[Schnellzug]

Why does this seem to be a Controversy? Isn't that what they say more or less everywhere now? (Although in practice, I'm pleased to see that SWT guards* do often seem to use discretion and be willing to sell tickets on board, even if the nannying Automated Voice may try to lecture you otherwise).
*I'm also pleased to see that they are indeed Guards once again

 

[swt_passenger]

What was annoying is that I asked for a Gatwick to Boundary Zone 6 and got the above.. when we've discussed before that you CAN issue tickets to BZ6 from outside the zones going in, just as you can from BZ6 to <station>.

They can only issue them if they exist in the fares system though. As you point out it has been discussed before, and that factor has usually come out as well...

Why does this seem to be a Controversy? Isn't that what they say more or less everywhere now? (Although in practice, I'm pleased to see that SWT guards* do often seem to use discretion and be willing to sell tickets on board, even if the nannying Automated Voice may try to lecture you otherwise).
*I'm also pleased to see that they are indeed Guards once again

I don't think SWT's guards have ever been renamed...

 

[pF]

Well, basically for every other train in the country you buy a ticket on boarding, Gatwick shouldn't be different. Its an important station in the south so its obvious it had to be gated, I'm surprised it wasn't done before.

Gatwick Airport - and other airports - should be different because its users are often in a rush to catch their 'plane.

Travelers on "every other train in the country" mostly don't need to catch a 'plane - correct me if I'm wrong - and don't have strict time constraints.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Gatwick Airport - and other airports - should be different because its users are often in a rush to catch their 'plane.

Travelers on "every other train in the country" mostly don't need to catch a 'plane - correct me if I'm wrong - and don't have strict time constraints.

Surely you would build in time to 'catch their plane'? I mean, you wouldn't give yourself ten minutes to get from train to check-in...

 

[ushawk]

People always add a good couple of hours before catching a flight anyway and with catching a train, you dont wait right up until the last minute or so before it leaves to get on it (at a terminal station anyway). Putting a ticket through a barrier take a few seconds and i cant see it delaying you.

 

[pF]

Surely you would build in time to 'catch their plane'? I mean, you wouldn't give yourself ten minutes to get from train to check-in...

Yes, I would build in that time; but my post was not about me, it was about the typical late [Gatwick] Express users - the type [Gatwick] Express previously courted. I see them every day as they sprint up the Victoria platforms.

 

[tempests1]

I used the Gatwick Express tonight, and it was an original GatEx service - so still branded Gatwick Express. My god the train was noisy - with weird noises coming through the PA system in a weird pulsing fashion that suggested some electrical disturbance/interference.

Not only that, but while the platform said you couldn't buy tickets onboard (as well as inside the building), the train happily said you can buy on the train and pay by cash, credit card or cheque - and someone would be along soon. It also said that some tickets may not be valid and to ask for assistance. Nobody came through, so I never had to test my Gatwick to Coulsdon South & Z1-6 TC combination (marked any permitted and satisfying the NRCoC rules by one being a zonal/season ticket).

What was annoying is that I asked for a Gatwick to Boundary Zone 6 and got the above.. when we've discussed before that you CAN issue tickets to BZ6 from outside the zones going in, just as you can from BZ6 to <station>. I know the difference is slight (10-20p perhaps), but there's a difference nonetheless. What's more, I asked the lady at the ticket office for 'A single to Boundary Zone 6 with a Gold Card discount' and she immediately said '£3.50'. The ticket was not marked BZ6, so it's not what I asked for! I didn't bother to say anything as arguing over a small amount would have meant missing the next fast train.

When you come off the trains at Gatwick, there are now four new gates fitted (two wide, two normal) but the gates to go into the station aren't yet installed. I should have counted, but I'd say there were 6 or 7 gates. Each gate (well, white wooden box where the gates will be) had a member of staff - of which one, the man on the far left, had a ticket machine.

They stopped anyone from going through without buying a ticket, but didn't actually check the tickets. As long as you waved something that looked like a ticket, they were happy!

I travelled from Gatwick Airport to Three Bridges last night, & the customer host's in their red uniforms didn't seem to be doing the most detailed check they were having a good chat with NWR platform staff, one thing that was funny was a very rude guy wearing a suit and with briefcase barged past & the customer rep asked to see his ticket, he ignored her and walked on. A couple of the Sussex Police Officers with the Guns were stood at the top of the escalator heard what was happened and walked back towards the concourse and the man, who then clocked the coppers & suprise surprise managed to show his ticket :roll: on a totally unrelated matter I saw a CCF live time train monitor in a silver housing on the platform for the staff. It;s quite good being able to see where your train is!

 

[O L Leigh]

Yes, I would build in that time; but my post was not about me, it was about the typical late [Gatwick] Express users - the type [Gatwick] Express previously courted. I see them every day as they sprint up the Victoria platforms.

It is not the fault of the railways if they can't be bothered to check their travel arrangements beforehand or leave their journey to the very last minute. They all know what time they need to be there for check-in and they can see when the trains will be running by consulting the timetable. What other special consideration do you believe we should be making for them?

I don't know what frequency the GatEx is, but the StanEx runs every 15 minutes. I think that's quite sufficient.

O L Leigh

 

[Schnellzug]

I don't think SWT's guards have ever been renamed...

I know, i meant from BR days. "Conductor" never really sounded right, and "Senior conductor" was even more strange. Were there Junior ones?

 

[ushawk]

I don't know what frequency the GatEx is, but the StanEx runs every 15 minutes. I think that's quite sufficient.

O L Leigh

Same, every 15 minutes too, if you manage to miss it though, theres always the frequent "normal" Southern trains there too taking a couple of minutes longer.