Gatwick Express stock

[Fig]

Southern seem committed to replacing the entire 460 fleet with 442s on the Gatwick Express service. This decision has been met with the criticism that the 442s are not fit for the job due to the poor access provided by the single width carriage end doors.

Would it make more sense to use the 442s on the half hourly Brighton fast service and use the displaced 377 units, re-branded with suitable vinyls, on the Gatwick Express service?

Discuss.

 

[ChampsRacing]

I see your point but im not so sure southern would want to go about refurbishing both sets of units again.

 

[asylumxl]

Or they could just re-lease the 460s which are well suited. You know, cos they were made for it: But TOCs don't have that kind of logic.

 

[Failed Unit]

The 377s really need 2+2 throughout for this route. I have used the on thameslink and they are a bit cramped. The 460s really need more coaches if they were to stay. I think diagramming would be hard as well with only 8 units. 442s should really be on the portsmouth line.

 

[Fincra5]

Southern seem committed to replacing the entire 460 fleet with 442s on the Gatwick Express service. This decision has been met with the criticism that the 442s are not fit for the job due to the poor access provided by the single width carriage end doors.

Would it make more sense to use the 442s on the half hourly Brighton fast service and use the displaced 377 units, re-branded with suitable vinyls, on the Gatwick Express service?

Discuss.

Some Brighton Express workings are already covered by GatEx Stock, the plan is that most will be covered by 442s in the near future. Indeed with the "Gatwick" part removed from the branding.

 

[Goldfish62]

Or they could just re-lease the 460s which are well suited. You know, cos they were made for it: But TOCs don't have that kind of logic.

But they're not going to. They're definitely all off-lease by early next year.

 

[swt_passenger]

Southern seem committed to replacing the entire 460 fleet with 442s on the Gatwick Express service. This decision has been met with the criticism that the 442s are not fit for the job due to the poor access provided by the single width carriage end doors.

Would it make more sense to use the 442s on the half hourly Brighton fast service and use the displaced 377 units, re-branded with suitable vinyls, on the Gatwick Express service?

Discuss.

We just had a thread on this, probably based on the same Brighton Argus report:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37526

The decision to replace the 460s was taken in 2008, and first stated officially in Jan 2009 in the Sussex RUS. The current Modern Railways again confirms, with an interview with SN, that they'll be gone by Easter. The 10 car 442 provides almost twice the capacity as an 8 car 460.

 

[387star]

Remove the branding?? will they gain southern green or what?

I think it would be nice to do a Gatwick Express varient of Southern livery...

Yep bet many Portsmouth/Bournemouth ppl in the know are upset these 442s are being deployed on relatively short commuter runs!!

 

[Surreytraveller]

The 10 car 442 provides almost twice the capacity as an 8 car 460.

A 5-car one doesn't, though.

 

[ChampsRacing]

Thats only at the weekend and i havent seen a full 5car pig going to gatwick even in the holiday rushes

 

[91101]

Remove the branding?? will they gain southern green or what?

I think it would be nice to do a Gatwick Express varient of Southern livery...

Yep bet many Portsmouth/Bournemouth ppl in the know are upset these 442s are being deployed on relatively short commuter runs!!

They will retain the GEX livery, but will only be branded as "Express" in white on the grey at solebar level. This is due to the 442s going to be working the majority of London - Brighton fast services as well as GEX services, it was deemed too confusing to have units branded as "Gatwick Express" when they don't stop at Gatwick!

 

[Electrostar]

They will retain the GEX livery, but will only be branded as "Express" in white on the grey at solebar level. This is due to the 442s going to be working the majority of London - Brighton fast services as well as GEX services, it was deemed too confusing to have units branded as "Gatwick Express" when they don't stop at Gatwick!

I think I saw a 442 the other day at Clapham Junction featuring just the Express branding.

 

[ChampsRacing]

Yeh i saw a 442 not to long back last month being dragged by a 66 towards east croydon with just express on the side, 2404 i think it was

 

[swt_passenger]

A 5-car one doesn't, though.

All the weekday peak GatEx 442 diagrams are for pairs...

 

[Drsatan]

So what will happen to the off-lease 460s? Will they be disbanded and their trailer cars inserted into SWT's 458s? (One proposal I read somewhere)

 

[jopsuk]

Maybe. perhaps. The 10-car solution for SWT has still to be decided. Still to be decided if it will even go ahead. There's an alternative 10 car proposal involving 456s. Of course, the original 10 car proposal for those lines involved 5 car 450s- these became the 4 car 350/1 fleet mid-build.

Other than the 458 lenghthening however I really can't see what use they could be to any TOC- a tiny fleet of long DC-only semi-express units.

 

[MCR247]

Its a shame they can't be converted to AC easily, as they could be given to HEX, which would release the 332s to work with the 333s

 

[traji00]

Its a shame they can't be converted to AC easily, as they could be given to HEX, which would release the 332s to work with the 333s

I actually thought that was what they would use the 460's for. IMO it seems a bit of a waste to withdraw those units from GX.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Last I heard the 460s were to be sent over to SWT and coaches redistributed to see the 458 fleet upgraded to five car, leaving 34 vehicles to be made into six 5-car units with four spares (four driving luggage cars).

 

[jopsuk]

that's certainly the prosal- but nos desicion has been made on the matter. That proposal also includes potentially remodelling the front ends of the 458/460 driving cars to provide better inter-unit corrdior connectors (seeing as they would then be primarily in 10 car formation in service).

I think though there may still be platform work required if that project goes ahead?

 

[Juniper Driver]

The 377s really need 2+2 throughout for this route. I have used the on thameslink and they are a bit cramped. The 460s really need more coaches if they were to stay. I think diagramming would be hard as well with only 8 units. 442s should really be on the portsmouth line.

Don't really agree....We had all this,they were taken off of the Portsmouth line because it didn't really suit them.Thye were better on the Weymouth run.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Rumours are that there will be SX Brighton run in the morning for Cl.460!!

 

[Goldfish62]

that's certainly the prosal- but nos desicion has been made on the matter. That proposal also includes potentially remodelling the front ends of the 458/460 driving cars to provide better inter-unit corrdior connectors (seeing as they would then be primarily in 10 car formation in service).

I think though there may still be platform work required if that project goes ahead?

Hammond is making a statement on Thursday re the outstanding railway projects so we may finally find out then.

 

[swt_passenger]

Rumours are that there will be SX Brighton run in the morning for Cl.460!!

Offishull...

The 0813 from Brighton, which is the extra extended GatEx service, if I'm reading it right.

Shown in SN's track access application for Dec 2010 changes, available on the ORR website.

 

[Pumbaa]

Offishull...

The 0813 from Brighton, which is the extra extended GatEx service, if I'm reading it right.

Shown in SN's track access application for Dec 2010 changes, available on the ORR website.

Definitely getting that in when I can!

 

[Ministry]

Are the 460s definitely staying with Southern now then?

 

[jopsuk]

most are off into storage as far as I'm aware, for now

 

[Ministry]

I thought as much - looking at the timetable on the Southern website the Gat-Ex and Brighton-Ex services all carry the limited access warning, which would suggest 442s. It seems a shame to put such a modern fleet of trains into storage tho!!

 

[tbtc]

It seems a shame to put such a modern fleet of trains into storage tho!!

...especially with DMUs working on "100% electric" services and many routes (around the UK) crying out for capacity... bonkers.

 

[LouJ]

The new Railway mag suggests there are a few remaining 46o diagrams. Does anyone know the current state of play and whish services are likley yo be operated by 460s

Thinking about riding the 460s next Wednesday (5th January).