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Gatwick Express employees "assisting" at TVMs

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Bungle

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Picking up my tickets from a TVM at Gatwick Airport the other morning, there were the usual mix of tourists and commuters around arriving off flights and buying tickets into London. I'd say about half were going to the booking window and half to the self-service TVMs.

Standing at the TVMs to 'assist' passengers was a uniformed Gatwick Express employee. His help to the would-be passengers seemed to consist mainly of asking along the lines of "to London? You want the Express? There you go" and hitting the expensive Gatwick Express fare for the customer before they even have a chance to see what other options are on the screen. It's not the first time I've seen this.

I've travel through Gatwick often (every two weeks or so) and I've always perceived the Express to be a rip-off and unnecessary given the other services available; however, if people wish to use it, then that's up to them. What I STRONGLY disagree with, however, is the way passengers are cajoled on to the Express without properly being advised of what other options are available. There are a fair few British commuters and I'd expect them to be confused enough with the various options already (Express, Southern or FCC, and the multitude of London stations available directly) but there are many foreign commuters and tourists who obviously don't have a clue, see the Express publicity and automatically go for it.

There are ALWAYS Gatwick Express employees standing near the platform entrances directing passengers on to the next service ("you can buy your tickets on board", etc), which means the vast majority won't even know you can take a Southern service which takes 5 minutes longer and costs over a third less, or an FCC to other stations that costs even less. It strikes me as a very dodgy practice, making extra money by preying on the ignorance of people who just don't know how it works.

It's one thing to have the place filled with Gatwick Express publicity (those who've passed through will know what I mean), but it's entirely another to have people standing looking over people's shoulders at the ticket machines and directing them to buy a more expensive ticket without explaining that there are other options available for a much lower cost, or giving them time to see what's on the screen.

I was thinking of making a complaint, but I don't know if there are really grounds for it and I'm just being pedantic - I'd love to know others' thoughts on this. Also, who would I complain to? Presumably not ATOC, as they'd be much in favour of the extra revenue. I'm guessing Passenger Focus as a first port of call?
 
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Matt Taylor

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As far as I know TOC employees have a duty to be impartial, this practice doesn't sound to be within the rules.
 

CarterUSM

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At best it souns like over enthusiastic customrer service, and at worst, a pretty grim attempt at increasing custom. Do what you think is right however.
 

First class

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As far as I know TOC employees have a duty to be impartial, this practice doesn't sound to be within the rules.

Incorrect. It depends on something called 'the lead retailer'. Each TOC is allowed to dedicate certain ticket offices/machines to only selling certain products, including only selling tickets valid on their own trains, in this case Gatwick Express.

For example, London Euston. There is a main ticket office managed by Virgin, and as the lead retailer has to offer ALL fares. However, London Midland have a smaller office there which only sells London Midland tickets. That is perfectly acceptable.

Now, as far as I can tell, Gatwick Express do NOT operate the ticket office there, so they are NOT the lead retailer. This means that they may be entitled to have (or lease, rent etc) certain machines/windows where only Gatwick Express products are available. They do not have to be impartial, and only have to tell the customer about THEIR products.

On the other hand, the member of staff is offering the 'Any Permitted' ticket. Unless a passenger asks for a different route/TOC then that is all that any employee is obliged to offer. If someone comes and asks for a single to London- you issue an Any Permitted- the most flexible and impartial ticket that there is! HEX probably get less revenue from this ticket than any other because it is distributed between at least 3 other TOCs.
 

yorkie

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On the other hand, the member of staff is offering the 'Any Permitted' ticket. Unless a passenger asks for a different route/TOC then that is all that any employee is obliged to offer. If someone comes and asks for a single to London- you issue an Any Permitted- the most flexible and impartial ticket that there is!
That simply isn't true at all. Where is your source for this?

HEX probably get less revenue from this ticket than any other because it is distributed between at least 3 other TOCs.
If you meant Gatwick Express when you said HEX, can I remind you that Gatwick Express is not a TOC!
 

CarterUSM

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I'm not sure about that either, I thought you were supposed to offer the least expensive ticket. If someone asks me for a return to London, i'm hardly going to sell them an SOR if I can issue them a cheaper alternative.
 

Matt Taylor

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Now, as far as I can tell, Gatwick Express do NOT operate the ticket office there, so they are NOT the lead retailer.


I don't know what your source is but the last time I checked the lead operator at Gatwick was Gatwick Express, this may have changed though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That simply isn't true at all. Where is your source for this?

Exactly, the clerk is obliged to sell the most appropriate ticket for the journey based on the information provided. Where multiple operators/routes are involved the clerk is duty bound to provide this information to the customer. If someone walks into a ticket office in South London for example and asks for a London to Birmingham ticket they have to be made aware of the options of Chiltern, London Midland, WSMR and Virgin.

'Whch route are you taking?', an easy question to ask which then makes it easier to nail down getting the customer the right ticket.
 

Greenback

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I don't know what your source is but the last time I checked the lead operator at Gatwick was Gatwick Express, this may have changed though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Exactly, the clerk is obliged to sell the most appropriate ticket for the journey based on the information provided. Where multiple operators/routes are involved the clerk is duty bound to provide this information to the customer. If someone walks into a ticket office in South London for example and asks for a London to Birmingham ticket they have to be made aware of the options of Chiltern, London Midland, WSMR and Virgin.

'Whch route are you taking?', an easy question to ask which then makes it easier to nail down getting the customer the right ticket.

The whole process of impartial ticket retailing is based upon establishing customer needs/preferences. This usually includes times and dates of travel, whether the customer has any preference for routes, railcards etc. It doesn't sound as if a member of staff asking someone who may well be a foreign visitor and/or unfamiliar with the ticketing complexities of the UK if they want 'the express' is complying with the rules in any way, especially if they are then operating the screen for the customer! Besides this, the member of staff is clearly not working in a ticket office, suitably branded and signed to state that the office only sells the tickets offered by that company.

I find the whole business of 'helping' customers in this way unsettling!
 
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