Gatwick Airport timetables now platform 5 & 6 open

[infobleep]

Apologies if this is covered else where but a search didn't bring anything back that was recent. I was at Gatwick Airport on Monday (16/01) and to my surprise platforms, 5 & 6 were open. I almost missed a train as I went to platform 7 as I usually do.

They seem to have kept it's reopening quiet or I just missed the announcement.

Now it is open, will the timetables be modified to take it into account? For example, will Littlehampton and Ore services once again be merged to split at Haywards Heath, with the other path being used for an additional train to Brighton as it use to be?

Is an extra train to Brighton even needed now? I guess it would benefit those going to Clapham Junction but they can change on routes.

As someone once said on here, in reply to a comment I posted, there will always be winners and losers.

 

[JonathanH]

All Gatwick Express services seem to be timed to use platforms 5 to Victoria and 6 to Brighton. If they could ensure exclusive use of these platforms and have a separate gateline, the higher Oyster / Contactless charges could apply for touching in and out there, moving the issue from Victoria.

However, up trains from Eastbourne to Victoria also use platform 5 and down trains to the Arun Valley and West Coastway use platform 6.

 

[PGAT]

However, up trains from Eastbourne to Victoria also use platform 5 and down trains to the Arun Valley and West Coastway use platform 6.

More specifically, consecutive up and down fast trains alternate between 4 & 5, and 6 & 7, with all the GX trains using platforms 5 or 6.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

Now it is open, will the timetables be modified to take it into account? For example, will Littlehampton and Ore services once again be merged to split at Haywards Heath, with the other path being used for an additional train to Brighton as it use to be?

GTR websites take into account that trains through Gatwick change times by a couple minutes as of December. No "big" changes like reintroducing the Brightons or merging the Littlehampton and Ore trains are happening, the only somewhat relevant change is TL no longer terminate here regularly.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

All Gatwick Express services seem to be timed to use platforms 5 to Victoria and 6 to Brighton. If they could ensure exclusive use of these platforms and have a separate gateline, the higher Oyster / Contactless charges could apply for touching in and out there, moving the issue from Victoria.

However, up trains from Eastbourne to Victoria also use platform 5 and down trains to the Arun Valley and West Coastway use platform 6.

But the charges shouldn’t legally be there at all, as we’ve established on this forum countless times.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Apologies if this is covered else where but a search didn't bring anything back that was recent. I was at Gatwick Airport on Monday (16/01) and to my surprise platforms, 5 & 6 were open. I almost missed a train as I went to platform 7 as I usually do.

They seem to have kept it's reopening quiet or I just missed the announcement.

Now it is open, will the timetables be modified to take it into account? For example, will Littlehampton and Ore services once again be merged to split at Haywards Heath, with the other path being used for an additional train to Brighton as it use to be?

Is an extra train to Brighton even needed now? I guess it would benefit those going to Clapham Junction but they can change on routes.

As someone once said on here, in reply to a comment I posted, there will always be winners and losers.

No there won't be. Littlehampton's and Eastbourne's will remain as they currently are.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

All Gatwick Express services seem to be timed to use platforms 5 to Victoria and 6 to Brighton. If they could ensure exclusive use of these platforms and have a separate gateline, the higher Oyster / Contactless charges could apply for touching in and out there, moving the issue from Victoria.

However, up trains from Eastbourne to Victoria also use platform 5 and down trains to the Arun Valley and West Coastway use platform 6.

Not going to happen.

 

[infobleep]

More specifically, consecutive up and down fast trains alternate between 4 & 5, and 6 & 7, with all the GX trains using platforms 5 or 6.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==


GTR websites take into account that trains through Gatwick change times by a couple minutes as of December. No "big" changes like reintroducing the Brightons or merging the Littlehampton and Ore trains are happening, the only somewhat relevant change is TL no longer terminate here regularly.

The timetable change occurred before platforms 5 & 6 reopend and thus when trains had fewer platforms to choose from.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

No there won't be. Littlehampton's and Eastbourne's will remain as they currently are.

What that always the intention or have they just released how well it works running them this way? Covid has also changes things.

 

[PGAT]

What that always the intention or have they just released how well it works running them this way? Covid has also changes things.

I'm pretty sure trains weren't diving in 2019 either so it wasn't a COVID change

 

[infobleep]

I'm pretty sure trains weren't diving in 2019 either so it wasn't a COVID change

What I meant was covid changed travel habits generally compared to if covid hadn't happened.

I thought the Littlehampton/Ore changes where due to the Gatwick Airport rebuilding works.

 

[WizCastro197]

Aside from the charging issue, does the new concourse itself look nice? I have no idea when I will have the chance to see it. Hopefully next weekend.

I thought the Littlehampton/Ore changes where due to the Gatwick Airport rebuilding works.

I think it was the removal of the Victoria-Brighton path (Southern) due to the upgrade works which allowed the services to be separate, so essentially yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

Is an extra train to Brighton even needed now? I guess it would benefit those going to Clapham Junction but they can change on routes.

Not sure there needs to be anymore. Plenty of both Thameslink and GatEx services, therefore the Southern services aren't really needed. The special charge from Brighton up to Victoria on GatEx doesn't apply from Brighton (only Gatwick Airport), and passengers have fared well without it. Changing at Gatwick or Croydon for Clapham isn't such a big deal anymore, fairly simple, and anyways, people have seemed to have adapted to the loss of the service anyway.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Aside from the charging issue, does the new concourse itself look nice? I have no idea when I will have the chance to see it. Hopefully next weekend.

I think it was the removal of the Victoria-Brighton path (Southern) due to the upgrade works which allowed the services to be separate, so essentially yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==


Not sure there needs to be anymore. Plenty of both Thameslink and GatEx services, therefore the Southern services aren't really needed. The special charge from Brighton up to Victoria on GatEx doesn't apply from Brighton (only Gatwick Airport), and passengers have fared well without it. Changing at Gatwick or Croydon for Clapham isn't such a big deal anymore, fairly simple, and anyways, people have seemed to have adapted to the loss of the service anyway.

People "adapt" because they have no choice. I find the lack of Brighton - Clapham Jn services a real pain. Especially if going to Cl Jn to change anyway, it means a journey from Brighton now has at least two changes rather than one. And Gatwick / E Croydon changes are surely not always cross-platform, adding to the extra hassle.

 

[gabrielhj07]

All Gatwick Express services seem to be timed to use platforms 5 to Victoria and 6 to Brighton. If they could ensure exclusive use of these platforms and have a separate gateline, the higher Oyster / Contactless charges could apply for touching in and out there, moving the issue from Victoria.

However, up trains from Eastbourne to Victoria also use platform 5 and down trains to the Arun Valley and West Coastway use platform 6.

Well quite, but I’m not sure what moving the problem south would actually achieve. As you note, this would introduce the same charging problem twice.

 

[tommy2215]

I thought the Littlehampton/Ore changes where due to the Gatwick Airport rebuilding works.

The Littlehampton and Ore trains have been separate ever since the start of the pandemic. Nothing to do with the works.

 

[JonathanH]

The Littlehampton and Ore trains have been separate ever since the start of the pandemic. Nothing to do with the works.

They were originally split when the Gatwick works started to eliminate the Haywards Heath split - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/may-2020-timetable-changes.197667/page-3#post-4376186

It was a change that was needed anyway because four car trains from either branch couldn't cope at certain times of the day, and there was stakeholder pressure for separate West and East Coastway trains.

 

[Watershed]

They were originally split when the Gatwick works started to eliminate the Haywards Heath split - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/may-2020-timetable-changes.197667/page-3#post-4376186

It was a change that was needed anyway because four car trains from either branch couldn't cope at certain times of the day, and there was stakeholder pressure for separate West and East Coastway trains.

It seems a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. Surely Brighton must represent a much larger market than the small towns and villages along the West and East Coastway? And surely there must be a means of making those services which are busiest 4 x 3 coaches, allowing both portions to be of equal length?

If the West and East Coastway must have their disproportionate level of service, then the Gatwick Express should stop at Clapham Junction, as it did for most of the pandemic.

 

[WizCastro197]

If the West and East Coastway must have their disproportionate level of service, then the Gatwick Express should stop at Clapham Junction, as it did for most of the pandemic.

Then the fare has to drop, I am not sure many people will be content with paying £20 on Oyster/contactless to just miss out East Croydon, rather than £9 on a regular Southern service that stops in Croydon.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

People "adapt" because they have no choice. I find the lack of Brighton - Clapham Jn services a real pain. Especially if going to Cl Jn to change anyway, it means a journey from Brighton now has at least two changes rather than one. And Gatwick / E Croydon changes are surely not always cross-platform, adding to the extra hassle.

its ridiculous that a destination like Brighton isn't served from C.Jcn. Opportunity market from SW London must be vast.

 

[Watershed]

Then the fare has to drop, I am not sure many people will be content with paying £20 on Oyster/contactless to just miss out East Croydon, rather than £9 on a regular Southern service that stops at East Croydon.

Indeed. In truth, there is no point whatsover to having dedicated express services on the Brighton Main Line when you already have semifasts constraining how quick express services can be.

Barely anyone is going to choose which airport they travel to/from based on whether the train has a couple of extra stops. The Stansted Express is, of course, notoriously not an express service at all but doesn't struggle for custom. It would be absolutely unimaginable to suggest that it skipped out Tottenham Hale.

The current mess is about as inefficient a utilisation of paths as you could possibly come up with. It satisfies nobody but the beancounters who are desperate to squeeze every last penny out of this wheeze, before it gets shut down by the Competition Appeal Tribunal.

 

[PGAT]

its ridiculous that a destination like Brighton isn't served from C.Jcn. Opportunity market from SW London must be vast.

The SW market will probably always drive to Brighton instead of changing at Clapham, especially with the current climate of the railway

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The SW market will probably always drive to Brighton instead of changing at Clapham, especially with the current climate of the railway

A lot of teh younger generation don't own cars in the London area and are quite happy to pay the fares but won't if the service is naff.

There is no point to GX anymore so its about time it was just another Southern service with a call a C.Jcn on the Brightons don't bother on the Gatwick terminators. Stansted Express all call at Tottenham Hale as its a good source of traffic as C.Jcn would be for Brighton.

 

[dastocks]

Surely Brighton must represent a much larger market than the small towns and villages along the West and East Coastway?

I assume by "small" you're talking about places like Hove and Worthing which, taken together, are larger in terms of population than Brighton. Eastbourne+Lewes (District) is probably also a larger population than Brighton and the road network in East Sussex is rather poor so rail travel is more popular.

 

[WizCastro197]

I assume by "small" you're talking about places like Hove and Worthing which, taken together, are larger in terms of population than Brighton. Eastbourne+Lewes (District) is probably also a larger population than Brighton and the road network in East Sussex is rather poor so rail travel is more popular.

No not necessarily, there are plenty of small towns across the West Coastway, Fishbourne, Nutbourne, Portslade etc.

Worthing and Hove, Littlehampton are fairly not small so therefore demand for those services are justified. On the other side of things, Eastbourne and Lewes are large as well therefore commuter traffic must be high as well, with many also connecting off the Marshlink Line.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I assume by "small" you're talking about places like Hove and Worthing which, taken together, are larger in terms of population than Brighton. Eastbourne+Lewes (District) is probably also a larger population than Brighton and the road network in East Sussex is rather poor so rail travel is more popular.

Lewes has a small population just happens to be a railway jcn oh and has a good brewery. The agglomeration of all the destinations served down East or West coastaway are bigger than Brighton but nowhere else has the appeal for day trippers that Brighton has.

 

[cle]

Population is irrelevant to rail use. Who is travelling from London to Worthing at scale? It’s all inbound.

Brighton’s rail usage is 10x almost everywhere on the Coastway. It’s insane to not have a service to Clapham Junction which has feed from across London. Full stop. Apologists give up on this one.

Any other service could comfortably be replaced for the Brighton call - nowhere is more important after Croydon and Gatwick for CJ on that route - but as we’ve all said, everything should call there.

 

[NSEUser]

People "adapt" because they have no choice. I find the lack of Brighton - Clapham Jn services a real pain. Especially if going to Cl Jn to change anyway, it means a journey from Brighton now has at least two changes rather than one. And Gatwick / E Croydon changes are surely not always cross-platform, adding to the extra hassle.

If it helps, I think you can still go directly from Preston Park and Hove to Clapham Junction.

 

[infobleep]

If it helps, I think you can still go directly from Preston Park and Hove to Clapham Junction.

You can.

 

[cle]

Useful for B&H residents, of course - not for Londoners/others visiting Brighton in-bound.

 

[blelic]

The Southern service to Brighton could definitely do with returning. There are many journeys to the South West that would be far quicker with the change available at Clapham Junction, with everyone currently crammed onto an hourly four coach service to Southampton from Brighton that takes nearly 2 hours. Anyone wanting to travel beyond Southampton would then have to change there, which is also not ideal as the station can get very crowded. Southern should at least increase the service on the East/West Coastways from Brighton if it doesn’t intend on reinstating the service with a stop at Clapham Junction.

 

[WizCastro197]

The Southern service to Brighton could definitely do with returning. There are many journeys to the South West that would be far quicker with the change available at Clapham Junction, with everyone currently crammed onto an hourly four coach service to Southampton from Brighton that takes nearly 2 hours. Anyone wanting to travel beyond Southampton would then have to change there, which is also not ideal as the station can get very crowded. Southern should at least increase the service on the East/West Coastways from Brighton if it doesn’t intend on reinstating the service with a stop at Clapham Junction.

I don't think there is enough stock to increase services further. Based on recent timetables, it seems the overall service numbers are going down rather than increasing.

 

[blelic]

I don't think there is enough stock to increase services further. Based on recent timetables, it seems the overall service numbers are going down rather than increasing.

There likely isn’t, which is a real shame considering the level of crowding on some services. Government cuts clearly to blame!

 

[Surreytraveller]

The Littlehampton and Ore trains have been separate ever since the start of the pandemic. Nothing to do with the works.

They stopped the splitting and attaching at Haywards Heath before the pandemic, to facilitate the works at Gatwick. The separate Southern Brighton services stopped at the same time, the paths taken by the Eastbourne trains