Gatelines - UK vs Europe

[Class73Electro]

OK, something OI have been wondering about for sometime Gatelines in the UK, compared to many foreign stations (Europe, in particular, since this is my own experiences).

The UK, a lot / most stations will have the ticket gatelines, not allowing you platform access without a valid ticket. However, in my travels in Europe, I have found a lot of stations don't have such issues, outside of big city stations. I have happily wandered onto the main Stockholm station, for instance to get shots of trains, same in Gdansk, and several in France and Germany.

Is it a case of more fare dodgers in the UK? or less caring abroad or?

*Apologies if this isn't the right sub.

 

[mangad]

OK, something OI have been wondering about for sometime Gatelines in the UK, compared to many foreign stations (Europe, in particular, since this is my own experiences).

The UK, a lot / most stations will have the ticket gatelines, not allowing you platform access without a valid ticket. However, in my travels in Europe, I have found a lot of stations don't have such issues, outside of big city stations. I have happily wandered onto the main Stockholm station, for instance to get shots of trains, same in Gdansk, and several in France and Germany.

Is it a case of more fare dodgers in the UK? or less caring abroad or?

*Apologies if this isn't the right sub.

I don't have any figures, but I'm not convinced it's "most" by any means. If you look at Greater Manchester, it's only a few big stations that are gated for example. I suspect there's a connection between the number of trains serving a station, and the type of stations. Busy station with trains every 5-10 minutes, more likely to be gated. Suburban/rural stations with lower frequencies, far less likely in my experience. No one's going to put a gateline on most of the West Highland Line

 

[Watershed]

It is down to the approach to revenue protection. In Britain, many trains run without a second member of staff being rostered or guaranteed, and for those that do have a guard, revenue protection is seen as a secondary consideration and they are generally not trained or authorised to do anything more than sell tickets or ask for details if someone doesn't have one.

In the continent, the number of trains - certainly local or regional ones - with conventional guards is much lower. For those services that do have customer-facing onboard staff, revenue protection is often one of their primary duties and they are often trained to issue Penalty Fares (or the local equivalent). So the likelihood of encountering an effective check onboard the train is often higher.

In terms of full checks/blockades, in Britain these are more commonly done at stations, together with some police presence, whereas in the continent they are almost always onboard trains, often with plainclothes RPIs in Germanic or eastern European countries. They also have a much more liberal attitude towards the use of force on (suspected) fare evaders so police attendance generally isn't deemed necessary.

To be honest I much prefer the continental approach - for sure it has its issues, with places like Frankfurt Hbf having lots of unsavoury characters on the platforms, but that is really an issue with there being insufficient security staff. I doubt that the installation of barriers would be much of an impediment to them whereas security staff could actually keep them out (by and large). It is much more customer friendly to be able to just walk up and board your train without needing to faff with barriers, potentially queue behind other people who haven't got their ticket ready, and deal with the inevitable rejections of valid tickets. It also allows much better access to station platforms, especially interchange to & from local buses for example.

The railway here is run in whichever way maximises revenue, minimises costs and avoids disputes with staff, and that is generally seen as involving barriers. Customer convenience comes dead last in terms of priorities.

 

[rmHawk765]

I can't really say France has less barriers for instance. It's about the same as the UK - busy stations have them, rural stations don't. What I will say though is that I have issues almost every time at certain gatelines in France - a lack of staffing poses the same problem as we sometimes get here.

It's certainly not to do with less fare evasion or anything though, more so with how staffing is arranged. There are more on-board ticket inspections in France in my experience.

 

[zwk500]

I don't have any figures, but I'm not convinced it's "most" by any means.

According to an ORR spreadsheet dated March 2019, 347 of 2,536 (14%) stations had automatic ticket gates in the UK. The data is 'mainline' only, so not London Underground or other metro stations. Some interesting quirks - only 2 stations had just 2 barriers (Purfleet and Colwyn Bay), the most number of barriers at any station was 66, Birmingham New Street.

Approaches vary in the UK to barriers - Southern were quite keen on installing them even at relatively quiet stations at one point (although by no means all stations got them), whereas LNR/WMR seemed to prefer a strategy of gating key stations and roving on-train checks so that most travellers got at least 1 ticket check on each journey.

 

[saismee]

£33.4 million to fund new gateline improvements

New ticket gates at railway stations will help crack down on fare dodging, while reinvesting millions into better rail services across England.

www.gov.uk

Passengers will benefit from a fairer railway with £33.4 million of funding to support the rollout of a range of gate types at stations which currently have none, including new taller gates to prevent barrier jumping and more of the standard waist-high gates currently used across Great Britain and on the London Underground.

Operators allocated funding to support the delivery of new gates include:

Avanti West Coast: Stafford, Liverpool Lime Street
East Midlands Railway: Market Harborough
Greater Anglia: Witham, Rayleigh, Ware, Hertford East and Manningtree
Thameslink Southern Great Northern: Royston, Stevenage, Elephant and Castle, Worthing and Gipsy Hill
TransPennine Express: Manchester Piccadilly
West Midlands Trains: Tamworth, Nuneaton, Worcester Foregate Street and Worcester Shrub Hill

Good timing for this thread! I don't quite see how some of these stations could be gated, but we shall see in mid-2027! Presumably most of these will be the standard Cubic E2, with the taller FEnX gates at the larger stations.

 

[rmHawk765]

£33.4 million to fund new gateline improvements

New ticket gates at railway stations will help crack down on fare dodging, while reinvesting millions into better rail services across England.

www.gov.uk

Good timing for this thread! I don't quite see how some of these stations could be gated, but we shall see in mid-2027! Presumably most of these will be the standard Cubic E2, with the taller FEnX gates at the larger stations.

High Wycombe new gates seen here.

To me personally they give off a very dystopian 1984-esque vibe. Not a fan, and of course it isn't the solution to fare evasion...

 

[saismee]

To me personally they give off a very dystopian 1984-esque vibe. Not a fan, and of course it isn't the solution to fare evasion...

I agree but the surrounding area is what causes this the most. If they made the actual room more inviting then the gates wouldn't be so imposing.

We all (Cubic included) know that the solution to fare evasion is reduced fares and more subsidy. Good luck!

 

[QueensCurve]

s

£33.4 million to fund new gateline improvements

New ticket gates at railway stations will help crack down on fare dodging, while reinvesting millions into better rail services across England.

www.gov.uk

Good timing for this thread! I don't quite see how some of these stations could be gated, but we shall see in mid-2027! Presumably most of these will be the standard Cubic E2, with the taller FEnX gates at the larger stations.

Many thanks to @Watershed for a comprehensive comment.

For me the idea of more intrusive grates seems horrible. I my last visit to Edinburgh Waverley appalled me. What I remembered from the 1980 as a fine open station was disfugured by fences to enforce the barriered access to the platforms.

 

[The exile]

Our lack of any formal system of ID makes it harder to pursue fare dodgers than in some jurisdictions.

 

[saismee]

Our lack of any formal system of ID makes it harder to pursue fare dodgers than in some jurisdictions.

I think this would be a big part of an "involved" solution. People need to actually be held accountable if we want to sort it. Penalty fares are all fine and good for one-offs, but repeat offenders will just give a new name each time and it goes nowhere.

 

[Hadders]

Ticket barriers are only one tool in the toolbox when it comes to revenue protection. It's probablyt time for me to regurgitate one of my historic posts about some of the things that should be in a good revenue protection strategy:

- Making it easy to buy tickets
- Have a decent fares structure - the old British Rail structure was excellent in this respect
- Install ticket barriers at large stations and for journeys where carrying out onboard checks can be difficult
- Carry out onboard checks, particularly on long-distance routes where there is typically a longer time between station calls
- Carry out high profile revenue blocks
- Have a Penalty Fares policy
- Make use of investigation in the 'back office'
- Prosecute those who do not co-operate with train company investigations

 

[Sheridan]

When I was in Portugal I took a trip from Lisbon to one of the satellite towns 40ish minutes away. There was a full gateline as the Lisbon end and the small station at the far end. These seem to be manned by security contractors rather than railway employees. At the far end I walked down to the penultimate station on the line for my return to Lisbon - this too had a gateline but no staff, which meant they’d left the middle gate of three open, rendering it slightly pointless! I don’t know if this was a temporary situation or more permanent.

My ticket was checked on board in both directions too.

I’m not trying to be vague deliberately, I just can’t remember where I went!

 

[saismee]

When I was in Portugal I took a trip from Lisbon to one of the satellite towns 40ish minutes away. There was a full gateline as the Lisbon end and the small station at the far end. These seem to be manned by security contractors rather than railway employees. At the far end I walked down to the penultimate station on the line for my return to Lisbon - this too had a gateline but no staff, which meant they’d left the middle gate of three open, rendering it slightly pointless! I don’t know if this was a temporary situation or more permanent.

I’m not trying to be vague deliberately, I just can’t remember where I went!

Leaving one open doesn't really solve the problem of someone getting stuck in the closed ones, nor does it create a safe opening in the event of an evacuation. You'd have to be pretty thick to get stuck by using the closed gate, but I've seen some thick people.

 

[Sonic1234]

Southern were quite keen on installing them even at relatively quiet stations at one point (although by no means all stations got them), whereas LNR/WMR seemed to prefer a strategy of gating key stations

I wonder who is right. GTR will gate pretty much anything, the few stations on GTR which are ungated are either very minor or architecturally impossible. SE gate the major towns and leave everything else thinking travel between 2 minor stations is negligible and/or undertaken by honest people.

 

[Sheridan]

Leaving one open doesn't really solve the problem of someone getting stuck in the closed ones, nor does it create a safe opening in the event of an evacuation. You'd have to be pretty thick to get stuck by using the closed gate, but I've seen some thick people.

This is very true! IIRC, there was an alarm and the ticket office down below was staffed so I assume they’d be able to respond if needed.

 

[Richard Scott]

Leaving one open doesn't really solve the problem of someone getting stuck in the closed ones, nor does it create a safe opening in the event of an evacuation. You'd have to be pretty thick to get stuck by using the closed gate, but I've seen some thick people.

Lots of Lisbon suburban stations are totally unstaffed, meaning a valid interrail ticket is useless as you cannot enter or exit the station. Similar in France on Ile-de-France lines and Spain on many suburban lines. Caught out in France entering a gated platform on a train from Troyes, unhelpful as interrailticket wouldn'topen barriers. Luckily helpful local got me out.
At least UK barriers have staff, we might think Europe always does things better, can give many examples where they don't!
Netherlands totally barriered but interrail tickets have a QR code that opens them.

 

[izvor]

Many central and eastern European countries have no gates installed, even at major stations, and rely 100% on on-board checks. This is probably a legacy from the Comminist era when people were far more law-abiding (for obvious reasons). It still seems a preferable solution to me (as per @Watershed above) but I have witnessed a few ugly confrontations between obstinate ticketless pax and guards in more recent years.

 

[JonathanH]

We all (Cubic included) know that the solution to fare evasion is reduced fares and more subsidy. Good luck!

Some people are determined not to pay whatever the cost. It isn't an unreasonable solution to make the station somewhere that only fare paying passengers can access.

Approaches vary in the UK to barriers - Southern were quite keen on installing them even at relatively quiet stations at one point (although by no means all stations got them), whereas LNR/WMR seemed to prefer a strategy of gating key stations and roving on-train checks so that most travellers got at least 1 ticket check on each journey.

I think it depends a little on what DfT were prepared to pay for at the time. Somewhere like Angmering must be on the low end of passenger numbers to have gates. Places like Tring and Leighton Buzzard are at the opposite end, and it is surprising not to see either of them in this announcement. There is a lot to be said for the way in which London Overground and Southern have used nothing more than shelters to install gates at which no more solid building is available, particularly if we are moving towards an almost fully gated network on many routes over time.

 

[Rab Smith]

Simple answer. Onboard ticket checking. I've travelled extensively in France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. It is rare not to have your ticket checked in these Countries.

 

[lordbusiness]

Part of the problem in the UK is that fare evasion is not a criminal offence.

 

[ollyexe2808]

I think this is a really interesting question. In Norway ticket barriers are completely non-existent, even on the T-Bane metro in Oslo. There are a couple of reasons for this. I think Norwegians are generally more trusted to follow the rules and buy a valid ticket but also revenue protection checks are done often quite spontaneously (on metro routes) or regularly (on mainline routes) with very hefty fines for fare dodgers. Seemingly the unpredictability of being caught and fined plus the general attitude of the public is enough of a deterrent for most.

I don't generally have a problem with gatelines and I the the Netherlands has quite a comprehensive set-up.

 

[zwk500]

I think it depends a little on what DfT were prepared to pay for at the time. Somewhere like Angmering must be on the low end of passenger numbers to have gates. Places like Tring and Leighton Buzzard are at the opposite end, and it is surprising not to see either of them in this announcement. There is a lot to be said for the way in which London Overground and Southern have used nothing more than shelters to install gates at which no more solid building is available, particularly if we are moving towards an almost fully gated network on many routes over time.

It also depends on the staffing strategy. LNR have guards on all trains, so with the major stations gated and on-board checks, they are likely to have inspected everybody at least once at some point of the journey, even if they're making a journey between 2 ungated intermediate stations.
Whereas Southern and LO have moved to/always have been DOO, and therefore they can't do onboard ticket checks on every train as easily (roving inspectors or the OBS role could do it but the whole point of DOO is to reduce staff costs so they won't be on every train), which means the case for gating the smaller stations will be better, to catch intermediate journeys.

 

[signed]

I can't really say France has less barriers for instance. It's about the same as the UK - busy stations have them, rural stations don't. What I will say though is that I have issues almost every time at certain gatelines in France - a lack of staffing poses the same problem as we sometimes get here.

It's certainly not to do with less fare evasion or anything though, more so with how staffing is arranged. There are more on-board ticket inspections in France in my experience.

On trains (not talking about metros nor the Navigo zone, as you are correct that sometimes you may have issues with those gates), there are like < 30 mainline stations with gate lines in France

All of them are used by TGVs and are staffed at every departure.

The only exception is TER services in the PACA region that is the sole one (that I know of) that use the mainline gate lines, all other will just have those gate lines open and check tickets on the train.

Interestingly, we have seen metros actually switch from the honor system to a fully gated system (at Rennes for example)

 

[rmHawk765]

The only exception is TER services in the PACA region that is the sole one (that I know of) that use the mainline gate lines, all other will just have those gate lines open and check tickets on the train.

Additionally to Paris those are what I was referring to. It might be to do with the fact TGV and TER services share a mainline here, given that the gatelines open automatically depending on the time. It's pretty easy to board a TGV when your ticket is only for TER (and vice versa as I understand it, silly, I know). Though I'm certain this happens elsewhere. I will say that I usually have issues boarding TER services at these gatelines for whatever reason, and staff is certainly not always at the ready to assist.

Indeed my main gripe is with the Paris metro gatelines. Multiple stations seem to have 2 gatelines on entry which completely breaks tickets by the looks of it. Most tourists end up just pushing through the gates and I can understand why, the entire system has a very hectic atmosphere and it doesn't help that the gatelines are incredibly confusing. I still can't get my head around why there are 2 sets of them at Gare du Nord low level, for instance.

My little visits to Italy seem to tell me that there are less gates there but I'm not particularly sure.

 

[signed]

I will say that I usually have issues boarding TER services at these gatelines for whatever reason, and staff is certainly not always at the ready to assist.

Are you talking about the Normandy TERs at Saint-Lazare?

Don’t doubt that is true, but I am surprised that such a busy gate line for the Normandy TER there be unstaffed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2026 ==

I still can't get my head around why there are 2 sets of them at Gare du Nord low level, for instance.

Relics of when taking the RER required a different ticket than metros, nowadays it’s still gated to make sure the few remaining zoned pass holders don’t go via Paris

 

[rmHawk765]

Are you talking about the Normandy TERs at Saint-Lazare?

No, I am referring to PACA. Apologies for any ambiguity.

The gatelines are staffed technically but by the time you can get a hold of anyone your train is likely to have left...

 

[NeakPed]

NS (Netherlands) is gated with the exception of smaller stations (& those operated by ‘private’ operators).
Most of gate lines (and stations) are unstaffed with help points available for those with tickets that won’t operate gates.

 

[sprunt]

I wonder who is right. GTR will gate pretty much anything, the few stations on GTR which are ungated are either very minor or architecturally impossible.

I seem to remember that it was a condition of the franchise that they were to gate every station where it was possible. Am I also right in thinking that it was always DfT that took the revenue risk on the GTR franchise, which would explain that condition?

 

[Jim the Jim]

The proportion of stations without barriers in the Netherlands is actually quite high, but the distribution is such that most journeys will involve at least one gateline (assuming journeys tend to either start or finish at a larger station). Trains that stop at lots of small stations tend to have more onboard checks.