Gateline staff at Liverpool Lime Street Clueless

[Ellis101]

Just got stopped at the gateline by two northern staff who said my Cheshire Day Ranger is not valid to Manchester Victoria, the first staff member started saying “Not sure you can go to Manchester with that”

Then after I shown him the validity map he called over his friend and was like “Are you sure its not a Merseyrail ticket as they aren’t valid to Manchester”

I told him I know that but then he started saying that “Northern and TPE are different companies so I wouldn’t know” Which i’d love to know how exactly that is relevant to knowing what my ticket is…

Eventually they let me through because I kept showing them the validity map and assured them I bought it at a ticket office whilst telling them I’ve used it to Manchester before.

I’m astonished staff can be so clueless about a ticket that is publicly listed and easily viewable on the National Rail website.


I’m not the kind of person to get mad at a staff member for a simple mistake, but when your put on the spot in front of members of the public trying to get past you & staff assuming your trying to bunk it’s just not a nice experience.

I’m sure I’d gladly do a much better job than them as gateline staff.

 

[Northerngirl]

Ive been told a saveaway isn't valid before, so its hardly surprising

 

[185143]

Ive been told a saveaway isn't valid before, so its hardly surprising

Being charitable, did they mistake it for a Merseyrail daysaver? Or see Saveaway and say not valid?

Doesn't beat me being told at Liverpool Central that my Saveaway was only valid in Sheffield though!

 

[greyman42]

Just got stopped at the gateline by two northern staff who said my Cheshire Day Ranger is not valid to Manchester Victoria, the first staff member started saying “Not sure you can go to Manchester with that”

So if they are "not sure", why are they stopping passengers?

 

[Northerngirl]

Being charitable, did they mistake it for a Merseyrail daysaver? Or see Saveaway and say not valid?

Doesn't beat me being told at Liverpool Central that my Saveaway was only valid in Sheffield though!

Given that it was in a plastic card, that would hardly be a mistake they could make

 

[jfollows]

I don’t think staff training is anything like it used to be, but it’s not good I agree.
I often use a Cheshire Day Ranger to go to Liverpool and I’ve never had this. It seems to work the barriers at those platforms that have them at Lime Street, staff have otherwise never queried it. They never work for me on the underground loop, where it’s also valid, but staff at both James Street and Moorfields have always let me pass without comment.

 

[Djgr]

I don’t think staff training is anything like it used to be, but it’s not good I agree.
I often use a Cheshire Day Ranger to go to Liverpool and I’ve never had this. It seems to work the barriers at those platforms that have them at Lime Street, staff have otherwise never queried it. They never work for me on the underground loop, where it’s also valid, but staff at both James Street and Moorfields have always let me pass without comment.

Lime Street upper-Northern staff
Lime Street lower-Merseyrail staff

I rest my case.

 

[David57]

I wish there was a 'like' button on here!

 

[185]

In fairness to our friends on the barrier, it's got a stupid name implying the county of Cheshire but the issue really is Northern's lack of retail training for guards and barrier staff - it's just plain shocking.

The only reasonable course is for booking office staff, and even that scrapes the absolute minimum. I do get calls from a few northern staff asking about items which should have been on their retail training - the buck stops with the operations, customer service and managing directors insisting the training centre rushes staff through that pesky unproductive training course at the start.

 

[Sonic1234]

the buck stops with the operations, customer service and managing directors insisting the training centre rushes staff through that pesky unproductive training course at the start.

Same on the rest of the railway. It's got where the best customer service is at unstaffed stations.

 

[Sakuradori]

Started on the gateline. It's amazing how little training from above there is on ticketing and the like. Most of what I learnt was from other gateline staff, which I now try and pass on too

 

[TUC]

It is also striking in these situations how little staff take the initiative and quickly look up on their phone what is said about validity for a given ticket. Often the passenger is better informed than the staff member.

 

[Paul AC]

In fairness to our friends on the barrier, it's got a stupid name implying the county of Cheshire

There are certainly difficulties arising from the strange validity of the Cheshire and Lancashire Day Rangers; I struggle with this sometimes even though I use both from time to time. Despite being well within historic Lancashire, both these Rangers are valid at Lime Street and James Street/Moorfields/Central, but that has a logic to it: the Lancashire version is valid "northwards" from there to Southport, Ormskirk and Headbolt lane; the Cheshire version is valid under the Mersey to the Wirral.

Less logical is the fact that the Lancashire version is valid via the Chat Moss route to Manchester, but not the CLC route; whereas the Cheshire version is valid via both.(*)

Less relevant to this thread but even less logical is Stalybridge, which despite straddling both Cheshire and Lancashire is valid with neither Ranger.

(*) late one evening there was disruption getting back from Liverpool to Manchester with a CLC train being really the only option: I just asked the guard if I could use my Lancashire Day Ranger and he was quite happy, though he knew it was not strictly valid.

 

[Krokodil]

It is also striking in these situations how little staff take the initiative and quickly look up on their phone what is said about validity for a given ticket. Often the passenger is better informed than the staff member.

I can never understand why the response to something unknown isn't either to ask a colleague or to Google it. Someone did once show me a Lancashire Ranger on a train out of Lime Street. Not one I'd seen before. So I looked it up. Valid on trains heading north or east from Lime Street, but not south (before the pedants turn up, I'm aware that Edge Hill is technically south of Lime Street, it's more east than south and he was going to Runcorn).

Someone showed me a rover ticket labelled "FOSS" once. I had no idea what that could be (the acronym wasn't obvious) so told him that I'd look it up to see if it was valid. He scarpered. No wonder, it turned out to be a Freedom of Severn and Solent Rover, and he was a few hundred miles North of Worcester. Presumably taking advantage of the printed ticket being ambiguous and most staff just nodding and moving on, it's a very cheap rover considering the validity period.

In fairness to our friends on the barrier, it's got a stupid name implying the county of Cheshire

It (and its Lancashire equivalent) roughly follow the boundaries of their respective historic counties, with an overlap (because railway lines criss-cross county boundaries) between Liverpool and Manchester via Chat Moss. The Cheshire one also includes Shotton just to fill the gap between Chester and Neston. It doesn‘t seem complicated to me (apart from the strange omission of Stalybridge from both).

 

[Djgr]

There are certainly difficulties arising from the strange validity of the Cheshire and Lancashire Day Rangers; I struggle with this sometimes even though I use both from time to time. Despite being well within historic Lancashire, both these Rangers are valid at Lime Street and James Street/Moorfields/Central, but that has a logic to it: the Lancashire version is valid "northwards" from there to Southport, Ormskirk and Headbolt lane; the Cheshire version is valid under the Mersey to the Wirral.

Less logical is the fact that the Lancashire version is valid via the Chat Moss route to Manchester, but not the CLC route; whereas the Cheshire version is valid via both.(*)

Less relevant to this thread but even less logical is Stalybridge, which despite straddling both Cheshire and Lancashire is valid with neither Ranger.

(*) late one evening there was disruption getting back from Liverpool to Manchester with a CLC train being really the only option: I just asked the guard if I could use my Lancashire Day Ranger and he was quite happy, though he knew it was not strictly valid.

A classic example of how privatisation retained something, froze it in aspic and then provided zero support for it.

 

[jfollows]

I don’t recall the Cheshire Day Ranger being in existence in BR days, before 1994. I think it was introduced in 2007 or shortly before. I just remember that when I moved to Wilmslow in 2008 it was “new”.

 

[Tetchytyke]

A classic example of how privatisation retained something, froze it in aspic and then provided zero support for it.

The day rangers were, IIRC, a Northern initiative. One of the few things that Serco got right. I don't remember them in FNW days.

 

[Djgr]

The day rangers were, IIRC, a Northern initiative. One of the few things that Serco got right. I don't remember them in FNW days.

Fair enough. The point still remains that as we play "pass the parcel" with franchises there is minimal ongoing support for "not invented here, guv" ticket initiatives.

 

[dave87016]

back in the early /mid 90’s they used to have what was called North West Day Rangers they were split in to zones with the zones 1-6 covering the whole of the north west they were great value and gave me great days out

 

[WAB]

Started on the gateline. It's amazing how little training from above there is on ticketing and the like. Most of what I learnt was from other gateline staff, which I now try and pass on too

Which is how misinterpretations or errors by one or two experienced members of staff can quickly perpetuate through a station or area. As the line managers of station staff either went through the same course as the station staff, or worse still have no retail training, it rarely gets challenged unless someone at TOC HQ who knows what they're talking about finds out and makes sure the station staff are suitably briefed.

The only reasonable course is for booking office staff, and even that scrapes the absolute minimum. I do get calls from a few northern staff asking about items which should have been on their retail training - the buck stops with the operations, customer service and managing directors insisting the training centre rushes staff through that pesky unproductive training course at the start.

Even booking clerks who ought to be a font of knowledge don't get trained well enough. I had a conversation with a clerk at Lime Street who had clearly been poorly briefed on split tickets, claiming that you couldn't use advances in a split. There is a lack of attention to detail and creating the right culture of checking with the bible if unsure.

 

[BurtonM]

I get why one would think Stalybridge is an odd omission from the day rangers, but I think there are a few reasons for it:

-based on Northern's descriptions, despite its historic location in Cheshire, Stalybridge isn't in the part of Cheshire they're intending you to use the ticket in. This is backed up by the fact the ticket specifically isn't valid east of Manchester Victoria.
-a likely reason for this is that the Cheshire Day Ranger is cheaper than quite a few return fares from Stalybridge to Liverpool and stations further west.
-I suspect the fact it's a TPE station might be relevant too, it's a bit harder to justify excluding Manchester Airport based on its location.
-Stalybridge doesn't really fit in with the stations on the Lancashire Day Ranger at all, it'd be out on its own.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Stalybridge doesn't really fit in with the stations on the Lancashire Day Ranger at all, it'd be out on its own.

Although, having said that, Stalybridge is included In each of the respective South Pennines Day Ranger, the Transport for Greater Manchester Rail Ranger and also the TfGM Wayfarer zones.

 

[Djgr]

I get why one would think Stalybridge is an odd omission from the day rangers, but I think there are a few reasons for it:

-based on Northern's descriptions, despite its historic location in Cheshire, Stalybridge isn't in the part of Cheshire they're intending you to use the ticket in. This is backed up by the fact the ticket specifically isn't valid east of Manchester Victoria.
-a likely reason for this is that the Cheshire Day Ranger is cheaper than quite a few return fares from Stalybridge to Liverpool and stations further west.
-I suspect the fact it's a TPE station might be relevant too, it's a bit harder to justify excluding Manchester Airport based on its location.
-Stalybridge doesn't really fit in with the stations on the Lancashire Day Ranger at all, it'd be out on its own.

Probably more likely that people didn't realise that Stalybridge was historically in Cheshire (and that Warrington wasn't)

 

[357]

I’m sure I’d gladly do a much better job than them as gateline staff.

In that case, you should apply for the job and tell this story during the interview.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

Started on the gateline. It's amazing how little training from above there is on ticketing and the like. Most of what I learnt was from other gateline staff, which I now try and pass on too

Which is how misinterpretations or errors by one or two experienced members of staff can quickly perpetuate through a station or area.

+1 to the above. Our industry has so much based on undocumented "local instructions" and "Joe Blogs says"

I had a conversation with a clerk at Lime Street who had clearly been poorly briefed on split tickets, claiming that you couldn't use advances in a split.

I once had an East Coast clerk at Edinburgh tell me that a priv ticket on the sleeper wasn't changeable or refundable because it was discounted. Fortunately I later discovered ScotRail had a small desk of their own who fixed the issue with no bother at all.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are certainly difficulties arising from the strange validity of the Cheshire and Lancashire Day Rangers; I struggle with this sometimes even though I use both from time to time. Despite being well within historic Lancashire, both these Rangers are valid at Lime Street and James Street/Moorfields/Central, but that has a logic to it: the Lancashire version is valid "northwards" from there to Southport, Ormskirk and Headbolt lane; the Cheshire version is valid under the Mersey to the Wirral.
Less logical is the fact that the Lancashire version is valid via the Chat Moss route to Manchester, but not the CLC route; whereas the Cheshire version is valid via both.(*)
Less relevant to this thread but even less logical is Stalybridge, which despite straddling both Cheshire and Lancashire is valid with neither Ranger.

(*) late one evening there was disruption getting back from Liverpool to Manchester with a CLC train being really the only option: I just asked the guard if I could use my Lancashire Day Ranger and he was quite happy, though he knew it was not strictly valid.

My anecdote was the time I was checked by the guard on a Chat Moss stopper (at Huyton) with a Cheshire Day Ranger.
"We are not in Cheshire" was the offence. When I protested he said he would check and never returned.
The modern Cheshire (East) boundary is actually right alongside the Chat Moss line for a stretch east of Parkside, crossing it for a couple of miles to Glazebury.

Now a "Yorkshire Day Ranger" would be a very handy ticket - but there isn't one.

 

[jfollows]

Cheshire Day Ranger is just a name for a ticket, it’s ludicrous that an inspector would decide otherwise, but it’s incredibly common for rail staff to make up the rules to suit their perceptions rather than admit to not knowing and looking it up. Stoke-on-Trent is hardly in Cheshire but also included in the area covered by the ticket.
To be fair, I use the ticket a few times each year and have never had a query, but it wouldn’t surprise me if I encounter some of the made up nonsense mentioned here. I once bought one at my local ticket office and saw that the seller wasn’t sure of its starting validity time, I said something like “8:45” and he said, “OK then” and issued the ticket. I asked if he wanted to verify this, and he said something like “no need, if you say so I believe you and if you’re wrong it’s your problem” which I thought was fair enough. Oh, and its start time used to be 08:45 but is now later I think.

 

[Fokx]

Cheshire Day Ranger is just a name for a ticket, it’s ludicrous that an inspector would decide otherwise, but it’s incredibly common for rail staff to make up the rules to suit their perceptions rather than admit to not knowing and looking it up. Stoke-on-Trent is hardly in Cheshire but also included in the area covered by the ticket.
To be fair, I use the ticket a few times each year and have never had a query, but it wouldn’t surprise me if I encounter some of the made up nonsense mentioned here. I once bought one at my local ticket office and saw that the seller wasn’t sure of its starting validity time, I said something like “8:45” and he said, “OK then” and issued the ticket. I asked if he wanted to verify this, and he said something like “no need, if you say so I believe you and if you’re wrong it’s your problem” which I thought was fair enough. Oh, and its start time used to be 08:45 but is now later I think.

It's 9am weekdays

 

[reb0118]

Someone showed me a rover ticket labelled "FOSS" once. I had no idea what that could be (the acronym wasn't obvious) so told him that I'd look it up to see if it was valid. He scarpered. No wonder, it turned out to be a Freedom of Severn and Solent Rover, and he was a few hundred miles North of Worcester. Presumably taking advantage of the printed ticket being ambiguous and most staff just nodding and moving on, it's a very cheap rover considering the validity period.

I came across a FOSS, possibly on the Forth Bridge. With the maxim of "nether ask a question unless one already knows the answer" firmly in gear, I enquired of the passenger what FOSS meant. The answer, and it was a good answer, was Freedom Of the South of Scotland. I may still have the ticket in my "Bad Boys' Box" with a plethora of expired railcards.

 

[Peter0124]

This might seem brutal, but ticketing rules/validity checking etc is probably a job AI would do well in seeing as there is so many different routes or unusual validities on tickets.

I've been challenged before on a valid ticket, aswell as not been sold one in a station, likely because its something that isn't seen often or something they didn't know you could actually do.

 

[sh24]

Is there a definitive official resource that recalcitrant staff can be pointed too. Barry Doe’s excellent Rail Rover is authoritative but if someone is making up rules in their head, they are unlikely to take it seriously.