Gateline at Canterbury West

[district]

Hi all,

Does anyone know why there are so few barriers at Canterbury West?

On the left of this picture you can see a glass 'wall' which is about 3 times the size you can see in the photograph, boxing the paid area of the station in. There seems to be space there where the walls are for additional barriers.

This morning, as many mornings, there were many customers waiting to exit. The wide aisle gate was set on first come first served (so it is operational from either side depending on who puts the ticket in first) and the rest of the barriers were set to exit only. There was a queue extending well down the platform of people trying to exit.

Furthermore, many season tickets become demagnetised (not because of storage in close proximity to mobile phones or Oyster cards as Southeastern will tell you when you get a replacement) and don't work, so even more time is spent queuing for the wide aisle gate to be manually opened. Infact, very few people were actually using the three normal sized gates which were set to exit, presumably because of the tickets not working.

So does anyone know of any reason why there are so few barriers at this station?

 

[dzug2]

I suspect the answer is a five letter word

 

[district]

I suspect the answer is a five letter word

Yes, I thought so. It seems such a shame that this is the case because during times when barriers are operational there are long delays on entering and leaving the station as well as what seems to be a dangerous amount of people to be squashed into a small space and then onto the platforms!

I suppose this is also down to how the barriers are being used, for example this morning with three out and one first come first served, this doesn't help those who wish to enter, especially as the wide aisle gate was frequently being opened to let people out with tickets not working barriers.

 

[Clip]

Yes, I thought so. It seems such a shame that this is the case because during times when barriers are operational there are long delays on entering and leaving the station as well as what seems to be a dangerous amount of people to be squashed into a small space and then onto the platforms!

I suppose this is also down to how the barriers are being used, for example this morning with three out and one first come first served, this doesn't help those who wish to enter, especially as the wide aisle gate was frequently being opened to let people out with tickets not working barriers.

Do the RPIs stood there not switch them over at peak times though? I.E have most on entry before a train pulls in then switch to exit once the train is in to speed up the flow.

Does seem strange they only have the 3 gates mind, wonder what the RA mentions about overcrowding.

 

[bronzeonion]

Money to install more gates and it probably doesnt help that they are the newer laggy type.

 

[district]

Do the RPIs stood there not switch them over at peak times though? I.E have most on entry before a train pulls in then switch to exit once the train is in to speed up the flow.

Does seem strange they only have the 3 gates mind, wonder what the RA mentions about overcrowding.

This morning, and alike many mornings, there is a gateline assistant. For some reason he decided it was a good idea to operate barriers in this fashion. Many people were indeed trying to exit the station at the time, but there was a long ticket office queue and many people entering waiting at the wide aisle gate.

It seems absurd to me they were operated in this fashion, and looked a bit dangerous, although there were emergency open plungers around so I suppose if he decided it was too bad then they could be plunged open.

But there were no revenue protection inspectors at all, so anyone without a valid ticket would just be told to join the long ticket office queue anyway.

 

[HH]

Cost of gates is not that large when done at the time of installation; I have to wonder what the throughput is at different times and whether a 2/2 in/out setup is best at that time.

 

[steamybrian]

There is also space consideration. My memory says to the right of the photograph was a café or bookstall which was removed when the ticket barriers were installed however I could be wrong!
To the left of the photograph is the ticket office and the area where passengers have to queue. If there is more than a few people waiting (including their bikes, prams, etc.) that area gets clogged up.
I use the station on average about once a month and do find the booking hall gets clogged up at times but when the station was built in in 1846 no consideration was given to provide space for automatic ticket barriers.....

 

[jon0844]

That's a very small number of gates!

First come first served might be the only sensible option when there's just one wide gate (hint to TOC; next time perhaps install two?) but it's carnage when it's busy because people walk/bump into each other.

It would likely be even worse when smartcards come in there, as people will touch and assume the opening gate is for them and walk into the person coming through (at least now, your paper ticket won't work if the gate has been operated by the person on the other side).

 

[district]

Cost of gates is not that large when done at the time of installation; I have to wonder what the throughput is at different times and whether a 2/2 in/out setup is best at that time.

Agreed, even IN OUT OUT FCFS would have been more useful. I am a great believer in barriers but they can be next to useless when they aren't operated correctly, in my opinion.

 

[philjo]

Considering there is plently of space it seems odd to have so few gates. Now that the HS1 services are running Canterbury West is now the main station (previously the faster services were the ones to Victoria from Canterbury east so fewer people tended to use the west station).

At Letchworth there are only 3 gates in total due to the lack of space (including 1 wide gate), so it is not uncommon to have to wait at least 5 minutes in the evenings to get through the barriers when an 8-coach train arrives from KX ! (especially if there is another train due so they are letting people in through 1 gate leaving only 2 for exit)

 

[steamybrian]

Considering there is plently of space it seems odd to have so few gates. .........

Not when there is several people with bikes, rucksacks, prams,musical instruments, etc. I have also tried to leave the station with a train load of passengers arriving on a down train at the same time passengers entering the station to catch the imminent departure of an up train.
I agree Canterbury East seems to be quieter and I think the booking hall may be larger?

 

[district]

I agree Canterbury East seems to be quieter and I think the booking hall may be larger?

Would agree East is quieter and larger, although I hadn't been to Canterbury pre-HS1 so unable to make any comment on whether it is busier.

I do agree with ticket barriers, if they are being implemented and used properly. I see little point of delaying and frustrating people, and potentially causing safety problems when there are not people qualified to deal with those without tickets (i.e. authorised collectors or staff with ticket machines). The ticket office line queue was out the door onto the street (although as said it's a small booking hall), so I don't see anyone who has been referred to buying a ticket from the office going outside to queue up.

 

[Southern]

The London bound platform is nearly always packed in the evenings and you get a generous load pile of services from London in the morning.

 

[Mojo]

Cost of gates is not that large when done at the time of installation; I have to wonder what the throughput is at different times and whether a 2/2 in/out setup is best at that time.

If having all four gates going out caused there to still be significant congestion to exit, I would suggest that reducing the number of gates would make things even worse!

 

[TrainBoy98]

Exactly the same stiuation at Worthing, one wide on FCFS and 3 others, one on in two on out, its always crowded and will take upwards of 5 mins to get out sometimes and if theres students going to london, its hell to get in too. Also, just like at Canterbury, theres a large, long glass wall, its so annoying...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Sorry to hijack this thread slightly but does anyone know the reason why the gates were removed at Canterbury East? Is it to do with the usage dropping by nearly a third since West gained High Speed services?

 

[district]

If having all four gates going out caused there to still be significant congestion to exit, I would suggest that reducing the number of gates would make things even worse!

The problem was the majority of passengers wishing to leave were queuing for the wide aisle gate, I assume this is because their tickets do not work in the barriers. But because the paid area is so small, they were queuing across the gateline, so the minority of people who wanted to use the normal width barriers set to out.

I think in this situation the member of staff should have plunged the gateline open.

 

[FGW_DID]

The problem was the majority of passengers wishing to leave were queuing for the wide aisle gate, I assume this is because their tickets do not work in the barriers

Or it could be the 'sheep effect' - people see a queue and stand in it despite there being other entry/exits, an example being 10 people waiting for passengers to alight through one door and ignoring all the other doors on an 8 car HST!