Gare du Nord reconstruction to be cancelled?

[S&CLER]

Today's Figaro has an interesting article which says that SNCF may cancel the proposed reconstruction of the Gare du Nord which was to be part of the preparations for the Paris Olympics in 2024. The reactions in Figaro from readers are uniformly very critical of the Gare du Nord. See https://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture...la-gare-du-nord-pourrait-etre-annule-20210921.

 

[jfollows]

Thank you for this.

The comments are a bit bonkers also, comparing the project to the Australian submarine project and saying that France is in decline etc. I read the article (eventually, after the sub-heading which seems to say only that the cancellation is being considered, I agree) as saying that SNCF will cancel the project, and this is reflected in the AFP report quoted first below.

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210922-france-ditches-gare-du-nord-renovation-plans-over-rising-costs:

France ditches Gare du Nord renovation plans over rising costs

Issued on: 22/09/2021 - 11:39
Modified: 22/09/2021 - 11:41

France's national rail operator SNCF has scrapped plans for a controversial renovation of Europe's busiest train station, Paris Gare du Nord, in the run-up to the 2024 Olympic Games.

SNCF, which made the announcement late Tuesday, blamed the decision on "unacceptable" cost overruns. In July, the main contractor, Ceetrus, warned the final bill would be triple earlier estimates of 500 million euros.

The decision also comes after the contractor warned of "considerable" delays, meaning that the new station would not be ready for the Olympics as initially planned.

The SNCF subsidiary in charge of stations, SNCF Gares & Connexions, accused Ceetrus of "serious failure" and terminated its contract.

The project had aimed to triple the size of the station, from where trains depart to Amsterdam, Brussels and London, as well as destinations in northern France.

Paris city hall had fiercely criticised plans to turn a station, long maligned as grimy and chaotic, into a major shopping and entertainment hub, saying it would be out of character with Gare du Nord's multi-ethnic neighbourhood.

Well-known architects had also slammed the colossal project.

SNCF said it would carry out a "quick adaptation" of the station to welcome visitors both for the Rugby World Cup in 2023 and the Olympics a year later.

(AFP)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2021 ==

Original article (https://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture...la-gare-du-nord-pourrait-etre-annule-20210921)

La SNCF annonce mettre fin au projet actuel de rénovation de la gare du Nord​

Par Jean-Yves Guérin

Publié hier à 13:34, mis à jour hier à 23:53​

Gare du Nord: la SNCF réfléchit à l'arrêt du contrat de rénovation

Le groupe public reproche à son partenaire, une filiale d'Auchan, un dérapage des coûts et des délais.

La rénovation de la gare du Nord à Paris, promise pour 2024, n'aura pas lieu. La SNCF a annoncé ce mardi mettre fin au projet actuel. Elle promet désormais « une adaptation rapide de la gare » et « la conception d'un nouveau projet (...) élaboré en concertation étroite avec les acteurs publics concernés ».



Dans un communiqué de presse lapidaire, Gares & Connexions, la filiale du groupe public en charge du dossier, a enterré ce grand dessein. « Compte-tenu des dérives insupportables par rapport aux engagements contractuels, [la SNCF] ne peut que constater la défaillance grave de son concessionnaire et prononcer sa déchéance », a-t-elle indiqué.

En clair, la SNCF renvoie toute la responsabilité de ce ratage programmé sur la foncière d'Auchan, choisie, selon elle, pour financer ce chantier et exploiter les commerces pendant une quarantaine d'années. En fait, le concessionnaire n'est pas la filiale d'Auchan mais StatioNord, une coentreprise entre Ceetrus (66 %) et la SNCF (34 %).

«Retard considérable​

La vieille dame ferroviaire ne s'embarrasse pas de pareilles subtilités. Gares & Connexions pointe du doigt « un dérapage du coût prévisionnel des travaux », avec une enveloppe qui a bondi à plus de 1,5 milliard d'euros contre moins de 1 milliard initialement. La filiale de la SNCF dénonce aussi « un retard considérable » du chantier qui ne permettra pas de terminer les travaux pour les échéances prévues : la Coupe du monde de rugby de 2023 pour le nouveau terminal de l'Eurostar et les Jeux olympiques de Paris en 2024 pour tous les autres ouvrages ferroviaires.

Avec cette glissade du calendrier, les travaux ne pouvaient pas être terminés avant 2026-2027, voire 2028. Certains choix de StatioNord posent question. Pourquoi retenir Bouygues en décembre 2020 pour une négociation exclusive, alors qu'un collège d'experts mandaté par le conseil de surveillance de StatioNord recommandait l'offre de Vinci selon la lettre spécialisée Mobilettre ?

Interrogé, StatioNord s'est refusé à tout commentaire. Dans ses rangs, certains temporisaient avant l'annonce. « Aucune décision d'abandon du projet n'a été prise et StatioNord continue à travailler à la poursuite du projet », expliquait un proche du dossier. De son côté, Ceetrus avait dit « respecte(r) ses engagements de coopération loyale envers son partenaire. »

La gare du Nord en piteux état​

L'abandon de ce projet retardera d'autant le reformatage de la plus grosse gare d'Europe (700.000 voyageurs chaque jour circulant dans 2200 trains). Le temps de relancer un appel d'offres et de sélectionner un attributaire, la gare ne sera pas rénovée avant 2030. Seuls des travaux mineurs pourront être menés pour faciliter l'accessibilité de la gare d'ici à 2023.

La mairie de Paris, elle, a appelé à ne pas reporter la modernisation du bâtiment. « Les habitants veulent un nouveau projet, plus écologique (...) qui permette enfin de libérer son parvis de la circulation automobile et des nombreux véhicules qui y stationnent chaque jour », a écrit dans un communiqué Alexandra Cordebard, maire du 10e arrondissement.

Cette fin de projet est très dommageable, tant la gare du Nord est en piteux état. Pour les voyageurs qui viennent de Londres en Eurostar, la comparaison avec la gare Saint-Pancras, où ils embarquent, est terrible. Le triplement des surfaces de la gare n'était pas excessif pour accueillir dans des conditions acceptables les centaines de milliers de voyageurs quotidiens.

Coup de théâtre​

Ce revirement constitue un sacré coup de théâtre, car le processus semblait lancé : « La rénovation va générer 450 emplois pendant les travaux, puis 1800 emplois directs permanents pour les diverses activités de la gare hors SNCF », s'avançait en février Aude Landy-Berkowitz, présidente du directoire de StatioNord. La polémique mettant aux prises pendant près d'un an la maire de Paris, Anne Hidalgo, et le duo SNCF-Ceetrus, avait été enterrée. Les deux parties s'étaient mises d'accord sur un projet revu et corrigé réduisant la surface dévolue aux commerces.

Gares & Connexions n'a commencé à être informé des dérapages de coût et de délais qu'en juin. Et c'est au courant de l'été que ces mauvaises nouvelles ont été confirmées. Outre la circulation aléatoire d'informations cruciales, cette affaire pose la question du modèle économique retenu pour cette opération : la concession est-elle la solution la plus efficace pour rénover une énorme gare en profondeur ? Gares & Connexions ne pourrait-il pas être autorisé à s'endetter davantage pour gérer le chantier en direct ? La ville de Paris et l'État ne pourraient-ils pas financer plus massivement ce genre de projet qui améliore la vie de millions de Français ? Le débat risque en tout cas de rebondir dans les prochaines semaines.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2021 ==

Google (mainly, plus my French O-level from 1977) translates this article: (I have added a couple of words not in the original to clarify also)

SNCF announces the end of the current project to renovate the Gare du Nord

By Jean-Yves Guérin

Posted yesterday at 13:34, updated yesterday at 23:53

Gare du Nord: SNCF is considering stopping the renovation contract

The public group accuses its partner (Ceetrus), a subsidiary of Auchan, of a slippage of costs and deadlines.

The renovation of the Gare du Nord in Paris, promised for 2024, will not take place. SNCF announced on Tuesday to end the current project. It now promises "a rapid adaptation of the station" and "the design of a new project (...) developed in close consultation with the public actors concerned".

In a press release, Gares & Connexions, the subsidiary of the public group in charge of the case, killed off this grand design (project). "Given the unbearable drifts compared to contractual commitments, [SNCF] can only note the serious failure of its concessionaire and pronounce its forfeiture", it said.

SNCF blames Auchan for the project failure, which was chosen, according to SNCF, to finance and operate the businesses for forty years. In fact, the concessionaire is not the Auchan subsidiary Ceetrus but StatioNord, a joint venture between Ceetrus (66%) and SNCF (34%).

"Considerable delay"

The old railway lady (SNCF) does not bother with such subtleties. Gares & Connexions points to "a slippage in the estimated cost of the work", with an envelope which has jumped to more than 1.5 billion euros against less than 1 billion initially. The SNCF subsidiary also denounces "a considerable delay" of the site which will not allow the work to be completed for the planned deadlines: the 2023 Rugby World Cup for the new Eurostar terminal and the Paris Olympic Games in 2024 for all other railway works.

With this slippage in the schedule, the work could not be completed before 2026-2027, or even 2028. Certain choices of StatioNord raise questions. Why choose Bouygues in December 2020 for exclusive negotiations, when a group of experts appointed by StatioNord's supervisory board recommended Vinci's offer according to the specialist Mobilettre?

When questioned, StatioNord declined to comment. In its ranks, some procrastinated before the announcement. "No decision to abandon the project has been taken and StatioNord continues to work on the continuation of the project", explained a person close to the file. For its part, Ceetrus had said "to respect its commitments of loyal cooperation towards its partner."

Gare du Nord in poor condition

The abandonment of this project will delay the reformatting of the largest station in Europe (700,000 passengers each day traveling in 2,200 trains). Given the time needed to re-launch a call for tenders and to select a winner, the station will not be renovated before 2030. Only minor work can be carried out to facilitate accessibility of the station by 2023.

The town hall of Paris does not want to see a postponement to the modernization of the building. "The residents want a new project, more ecological (...) which finally makes it possible to free its square from car traffic and the many vehicles parked there every day", wrote Alexandra Cordebard, mayor of the 10th arrondissement.

This end of the project is very damaging, as the Gare du Nord is in a sorry state. For travelers coming from London by Eurostar, the comparison with St Pancras Station, where they board, is terrible. The planned tripling of the areas of the station was not excessive to properly accommodate the hundreds of thousands of daily travellers.

Spectacular turn of events

This turnaround is quite a dramatic turn of events, because the process seemed to have started already: “The renovation will generate 450 jobs during the works, then 1,800 permanent direct jobs for the various activities of the station outside the SNCF”, Aude Landy-Berkowitz, Chairman of the Board of StatioNord, said in February. The dispute between the mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, and the SNCF-Ceetrus collaboratation which had been going for nearly a year, had been buried. The two parties had agreed on a revised and corrected project reducing the area allocated to shops.

Gares & Connexions did not begin to be informed of cost and time slippages until June. And it was during the summer that this bad news was confirmed. In addition to the random circulation of crucial information, this case raises the question of the economic model chosen for this operation: is the concession the most effective solution to renovate a huge station in depth? Could Gares & Connexions not be authorized to take on more debt to manage the site directly? Couldn't the city of Paris and the state fund more massively this kind of project that improves the lives of millions of French people? The debate is in any case likely to rebound in the coming weeks.

I also think it's disgusting that the estimated cost of the project was thought to be €500 million at the end of 2020 still, but increased to €1,500 million by July 2021 (from other reports in today’s press). I'm not surprised, because these vast civil contracts always seem to do this (HS2 anyone?) but in any sane world it simply wouldn't be tolerated. Civil engineering appears to be a special exception to what I think of as acceptable behaviour.

 

[AlbertBeale]

It seems that the massive rebuild of Gare du Nord, proposed a couple of years back, has been called off on cost grounds. (Maybe the accounting practice of the construction company follows HS2 methods in the UK ... think of a number, get approval, and then double it.)

Many will be pleased at the news given how (a) the scheme was destructive of the immediate environs of the station; (b) it would have included (presumably for funding reasons) a vast shopping and entertainment complex as part of the rebuild, with access to and egress from (and changing between) platforms taking much longer as you'd be directed through a shopping mall en route.

There'll instead be a more restrained scheme of capacity improvements and unclogging.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

It does need something of a revamp, it always seems very cramped and overcrowded, especially in the Eurostar area.

 

[yorksrob]

Has Paris experienced a similar reduction in committing as here, in which case I wonder whether this has feed into the decision.

That said, 'l'hotel de ville' seems to have been hostile to the project from the start, which must have been a poor omen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does need something of a revamp, it always seems very cramped and overcrowded, especially in the Eurostar area.

Like Brussel-Zuid, it's a rathole of a station in a dump of an area. Bad news that redevelopment has been stopped.

 

[AlterEgo]

Like Brussel-Zuid, it's a rathole of a station in a dump of an area. Bad news that redevelopment has been stopped.

This.

It really needs a general spruce-up as does the whole area. Think of Kings Cross area in the 90s; a sketchy, pimp-ridden dive, and the mega transformation between then and today.

 

[jfollows]

For what it's worth, I have always liked Gare du Nord.
I first remember it from a school exchange trip in summer 1975.
It's big and messy. Nowadays I like the way i can walk off the Eurostar onto the concourse.
It has good connections to the RER, although it can be a bit of a convoluted walk.
Yes, the Eurostar departure area is rubbish, but I can live with that.
It's located in a fairly run-down area, but there are some good restaurants in the vicinity which aren't a rip-off.
Bottom line for me is that it feels like "authentic" Paris and therefore is a good place to arrive at. Saint Pancras is lovely, of course, but all a bit "false" also. I mean, I've used the champagne bar and I remember Saint Pancras in the 1970s so I don't want to go back to that, but equally I don't hate Gare du Nord.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bottom line for me is that it feels like "authentic" Paris and therefore is a good place to arrive at.

I suppose to be fair I also don't like Paris very much and don't get what's even remotely romantic about it. If I wanted a romantic European capital trip Vienna would be much higher up my list.

 

[jfollows]

I suppose to be fair I also don't like Paris very much and don't get what's even remotely romantic about it. If I wanted a romantic European capital trip Vienna would be much higher up my list.

I don't find Paris romantic either, just interesting, and (like London) a good city to walk around (the vicinity of Gare du Nord is fine, I'm less sure about some of the suburbs!)
I once had a free ticket for the "Bateaux Mouches" which is meant to be "romantic". My abiding recollection is of my partner laughing at the accent of the Spanish commentary - he's Mexican and he was amused by the Argentine accent.

 

[185]

The crowded street outside GDN does it no favors ... the whole street should be closed to all vehicles, it is a secondary road mostly used as a shortcut between busy roads Magenta and Fayette. The buses & taxis can stop on the side.

I've always thought that the some of the 100-150m of streets between Gare Du Nord and Gare de l'Est should be leveled and the two stations linked to expand capacity and stick major road Rue de Fayette - which separates them into a tunnel. Any expensive re-jig based on the current land footprint would not, imo solve the space issues.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The crowded street outside GDN does it no favors ... the whole street should be closed to all vehicles, it is a secondary road mostly used as a shortcut between busy roads Magenta and Fayette. The buses & taxis can stop on the side.

I've always thought that the some of the 100-150m of streets between Gare Du Nord and Gare de l'Est should be leveled and the two stations linked to expand capacity and stick major road Rue de Fayette - which separates them into a tunnel. Any expensive re-jig based on the current land footprint would not, imo solve the space issues.

I suspect any tunnelling of the road between Nord and Est would fall foul of the maze of metro lines not far below the surface there!! And there are some places between the two that really shouldn't be knocked down - both because of the interests of their current users and because of the character of the area.

I find the area around there, yes, a bit of a dump in some ways - but also, as has been said, "real".

The comparison with KX/StP in London, made above, is interesting - I've worked almost next door to KX for many years, and I don't think the changes eulogised above are an unalloyed good. Certainly not for many - non-rich - people who live in the area.

Though Nord does need a revamp, for public purposes (as opposed to corporate riches) it needs one which cleans up access routes and interchange routes etc but which doesn't - as the big plan did - make you walk through a shopping mall to get to and from platforms. The extra hassle/delay involved would have made the massive increase of interchange times at the rebuilt St P in London seem trivial in comparison.

Paris City Hall was right to oppose it, and represented the views of many Parisians in doing so.

PS - apologies for mistakenly starting a new thread on this last night when this subject already had this thread.

 

[jfollows]

PS - apologies for mistakenly starting a new thread on this last night when this subject already had this thread.

Better to have two threads on the same subject than none at all!

 

[AlbertBeale]

Better to have two threads on the same subject than none at all!

Tell that to the mods......

 

[jfollows]

Tell that to the mods......

I know, I asked them to merge the two threads, but that doesn't alter the fact that your thread provoked more discussion than the original one for some reason, the more the merrier I think!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Like Brussel-Zuid, it's a rathole of a station in a dump of an area. Bad news that redevelopment has been stopped.

There's a Grand Canyon sized difference between the two IMO. Brussels is far from perfect, but once inside the building it's a perfectly adequate facility with all the amenities needed. Even the areas outside aren't as bad as people make out- there's always one or two ne'er-do-wells hanging about but if you keep your wits about you you'll be fine.

Paris-Nord on the other hand, is awful for Eurostar passengers. Even after 30 years of operation the passport control area feels like a temporary solution that ended up becoming permanent, and the criminal element in Paris seem more willing to venture inside the concourse than their Belgian counterparts.

 

[yorksrob]

There's a Grand Canyon sized difference between the two IMO. Brussels is far from perfect, but once inside the building it's a perfectly adequate facility with all the amenities needed. Even the areas outside aren't as bad as people make out- there's always one or two ne'er-do-wells hanging about but if you keep your wits about you you'll be fine.

Paris-Nord on the other hand, is awful for Eurostar passengers. Even after 30 years of operation the passport control area feels like a temporary solution that ended up becoming permanent, and the criminal element in Paris seem more willing to venture inside the concourse than their Belgian counterparts.

I've not been to Gare du Nord, but agree about Brussels. Perfectly decent, usable station with some nice cafes nearby to wait for a train

 

[CC 72100]

There's a Grand Canyon sized difference between the two IMO. Brussels is far from perfect, but once inside the building it's a perfectly adequate facility with all the amenities needed. Even the areas outside aren't as bad as people make out- there's always one or two ne'er-do-wells hanging about but if you keep your wits about you you'll be fine.

Paris-Nord on the other hand, is awful for Eurostar passengers. Even after 30 years of operation the passport control area feels like a temporary solution that ended up becoming permanent, and the criminal element in Paris seem more willing to venture inside the concourse than their Belgian counterparts.

Unfortunately it doesn't help that in terms of suburban traffic, Paris Nord serves arguably the most 'problematic' suburbs towards the North/North West of the city. If you think above ground is bad, the suburban platforms towards the Northern suburbs are not a place to hang around at. The juxtaposition of asking passengers coming to/from France's most important airport (CDG) and Paris' worst suburbs to share a train always felt odd to me.

I've no huge love for Paris (I love France - just not Paris!) but I do think some of the reaction and hate on Paris/Gare du Nord in this thread is a bit over the top.

 

[ashkeba]

There's a Grand Canyon sized difference between the two IMO. Brussels is far from perfect, but once inside the building it's a perfectly adequate facility with all the amenities needed. Even the areas outside aren't as bad as people make out- there's always one or two ne'er-do-wells hanging about but if you keep your wits about you you'll be fine.

The low-motor side (Place Horta / Hortaplein) of Brussel-Zuid is fine. The dual carriageway sides are poor. But the Gare du Nord has no low-motor side, only big roads, all poor. It needs some improvement, but not a shopping centre in the way like the old Birmingham New Street.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The low-motor side (Place Horta / Hortaplein) of Brussel-Zuid is fine. The dual carriageway sides are poor. But the Gare du Nord has no low-motor side, only big roads, all poor. It needs some improvement, but not a shopping centre in the way like the old Birmingham New Street.

As I understood it, the plan (now dropped) for a mega-revamp of Gare du Nord was on a far larger scale than anything attempted over here such as at Brum NS. As far as improving the station as such was concerned, it was massive overkill. At least in part it was to present a posh and shiny vision to people arriving for the Paris Olympics.

 

[TRAX]

As I understood it, the plan (now dropped) for a mega-revamp of Gare du Nord was on a far larger scale than anything attempted over here such as at Brum NS. As far as improving the station as such was concerned, it was massive overkill. At least in part it was to present a posh and shiny vision to people arriving for the Paris Olympics.

The plan was also to transform the station in a shopping Centre, as was done with Saint-Lazare.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

And, as @AlbertBeale noted, to funnel passengers through the shopping centre.

Though Nord does need a revamp, for public purposes (as opposed to corporate riches) it needs one which cleans up access routes and interchange routes etc but which doesn't - as the big plan did - make you walk through a shopping mall to get to and from platforms. The extra hassle/delay involved would have made the massive increase of interchange times at the rebuilt St P in London seem trivial in comparison.