• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Gardner bus engines

Status
Not open for further replies.

90sWereBetter

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2012
Messages
1,046
Location
Lost somewhere within Bank-Monument tube station,
Does anyone know roughly when the last buses with Gardner engines entered service in the UK, and when the company actually closed down? I know Gardner had developed a new engine called the LG1200, but it doesn't seem to have been a success, and I presume the 6LXB and its variants were too long in the tooth to be adapted for Euro1 emissions, but it seems the company just disappeared overnight.

Would've been interesting to see Gardner adapt to the Euro emission limits and if they could retain their reputation for economical fuel consumption. Can anyone shed light on the LG1200 saga?
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

GusB

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
8,122
Location
Elginshire
Does anyone know roughly when the last buses with Gardner engines entered service in the UK, and when the company actually closed down? I know Gardner had developed a new engine called the LG1200, but it doesn't seem to have been a success, and I presume the 6LXB and its variants were too long in the tooth to be adapted for Euro1 emissions, but it seems the company just disappeared overnight.

Would've been interesting to see Gardner adapt to the Euro emission limits and if they could retain their reputation. Can anyone shed light on the LG1200 saga?
I think what probably killed the LG1200 was Volvo's decision not to offer it in the Olympian, instead only offering the Cummins L10 and Volvo engine options. I remember reading about it in Buses magazine around the time it was introduced, but I've no idea how many units were sold. From a quick Google, I believe some were sent over to Hong Kong, and there was a Dennis Dominator supplied to Ensign/Capital CityBus which had the LG1200/ZF driveline. I'm not aware of any others.


Along with other heavy industries, L Gardner & Sons suffered a decline in the 1970s and eventually became a subsidiary of Hawker Siddeley in 1977. It was later sold off to Perkins Engines of Peterborough in 1986. Automotive engine production ceased in 1994, but marine engine production continued. With its acquisition by L Gardner Group Plc, the company ceased all engine production and focused on the supply of spare parts and repair of existing engines.

According to the above, 1994 was when they stopped producing automotive engines. By this time we were starting to see the likes of the Dennis Dart and Dennis Lance which had much smaller engines.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,287
Buslistsontheweb appears to list G710TCD as the last ONLXB Olympian. Generally Cummins L10s in a lot of them by that time.
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
10,625
Location
Hampshire
Buslistsontheweb appears to list G710TCD as the last ONLXB Olympian. Generally Cummins L10s in a lot of them by that time.
One of Stagecoach Southdown's early orders I believe too. I do have fond memories of those things now!

 

GusB

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
8,122
Location
Elginshire
Having had a look at the Olympian chassis lists on Bus Lists on the Web, it would appear that the last batch built with Gardners were K572-583RRH, new to East Yorkshire in 1993. Unfortunately it simply says G in the chassis designation and doesn't appear to specify which version; were the later examples all fitted with 6LXCTs?
 

jammy36

Member
Joined
28 Aug 2013
Messages
324
Although the company seemed to disappear overnight, I'd suggest Gardner's story is actually one of slow decline, rather than sudden collapse. The spiral if decline really began in the 1970s.

Gardner built its reputation on quality - reliability, durability and fuel frugality. Essentially however the engines were hand-assembled, with tolerances individually adjusted on the shop floor. Gardner's long-standing reputation for durability was built on the back of lightly-stressed components.

The world of diesel engines and customer expectations were changing however, with a move towards increased performance from lighter units. Ultimately Gardner (like much of the UK's automotive industry) was slow to react to a changing market. It continued to have a loyal customer base, but didn't have the financial resources to invest in the level of R&D needed to keep up with changing technologies.

Elsewhere computer technology and manufacturing were increasingly coming to the fore. Gardner was initially able to keep up with the pack by increasing the maximum governed speed of its engines (increasing rpm to deliver more horsepower) but this added more stress on the units (with a knock on effect on Gardner's reputation for bullet proof durability and engine longevity).

Turbocharging was added to deliver additional power whilst keeping fuel efficiency competitive, but ultimately the company didn't have the resources to develop the next generation of engines needed to match it's competitors.

Even in the mid 1970s Gardner engines were still essentially hand-built and so margins on new engine building were paper thin. After the sale to Hawker Siddley in 1977 the company had sufficient financial backing to develop a wholly new engine (the 15.5 ltr 6LYT) and rework its existing offering (12.7 ltr version derived from the 6LX). But unfortunately, especially in truck applications the new engines were less reliable - which somewhat tarnished the firm's reputation, so customer loyalty started to decline slightly.

Generally however Gardner remained well-regarded, but traditional manufacturer with a loyal customer base, particularly in the bus world. Manufacturing engines for the bus industry wasn't viable on its own and Gardner market share had declined in other applications (for example in the truck world where companies like ERF, Foden or Seddon Atkinson were struggling).

By the time of Gardner's sale from Hawker Siddley to Perkins in 1986 the company was probably making only a few hundred new units a year (more money being made in the reconditioning of existing engines). Gardner was Hawker Siddley's only automotive engine builder, but under Perkins ownership it would be but one - and the smallest - such division. Perkins already manufactured engines in direct competition with Gardner.

For bus applications the updated 12.7 ltr engine (renamed the LG1200 - developed jointly with Perkins) was actually quite reliable and well-regarded, but that market was quite small. Bus sales were already in decline in the run-up to deregulation - and of course the minibuses then in vogue certainly weren't Gardner powered!! Effectively Gardner had primarily become a manufacturer of bus engines at a time when it's main offering was a 12.7 ltr engine but the bus world was moving to smaller lighter units. In bus applications Cummins already had the ubiquitous L10 which was smaller and had developed the B-series for lighter applications. Meanwhile Volvo could took advantage by offering its own 9.6 ltr engines in the Olympian. Not surprisingly Perkins looked to offload the company.

The writing was on the wall for Gardner - it didn't have the products the market now desired and didn't have the resources to develop new engines itself. Nor, did it manufacture at the volumes that would warrant the necessary investment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top