Gaelic Station Signs

[reb0118]

Has any one else noticed the new Gaelic Station Signs at Linlithgow, Haymarket, & Montrose?

With the exception of Glasgow Queen Street, Partick, & the West Highland Line which have been dual signed for a while - has any one seen any more new Gaelic signage?

Although not a Gaelic speaker I think this is a good move by Scotrail or Transport Scotland. Many place names throughout the UK are derived from the Gaelic or Celtic although they have been Anglicised over time. This may help us gain an insight into some of our lost heritage.

Does anyone know if this is an ongoing programme?

How about Sonic Sonia translated into the Gaelic we would have to rename her Sonic Shonnagh

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Under the new designs, all ScotRail owned stations will have their Gaelic na,me (should they have one) printed under the English one - they are on the older signs too . A similar situation exists in Wales

 

[37 418]

Stations north of Dunkeld on the Highland Mainline, Dingwall (albeit slightly wrong), and Gleneagles are all bilingual.

As a Gaelic speaker I'm very pleased to see new ones going up!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Stations north of Dunkeld on the Highland Mainline, Dingwall (albeit slightly wrong), and Gleneagles are all bilingual.

As a Gaelic speaker I'm very pleased to see new ones going up!

Is there anyhting out towards Kyle or Wick in Gaelic?

 

[me123]

Some stations have them, others do not. Some interesting ones to have Gaelic signage include Càrn-Tìn (Carntyne), Baile Nighean Sheadna (Shettleston) and An Taigh Sear (Easterhouse) A full list is available here.

I've never understood why they've only chosen some stations for Gaelic signs. I don't know why Garrowhill or Blairhill don't qualify for Gaelic signs, yet Easterhouse and Shettleston do. Perhaps they just couldn't work out a translation. The signage is more prevalent in the Highlands, where Gaelic is still fairly widely spoken on a day to day basis, than in the Lowlands.

I think it is quite a good idea, but people such as the Daily Heil seem to think its independence by stealth from Alex Salmond (despite the Gaelic signage first appearing in 1996; a whole year before the devolution referendum!).

 

[tbtc]

I think there are more Poles and Mandarin speakers in Scotland than Gaelic speakers.

 

[me123]

I think there are more Poles and Mandarin speakers in Scotland than Gaelic speakers.

Indeed. Where Gaelic is spoken, it's often spoken as a second language, and generally speakers also speak English. So it's definitely at risk. So it's really important to keep the language alive.

 

[tbtc]

Indeed. Where Gaelic is spoken, it's often spoken as a second language, and generally speakers also speak English. So it's definitely at risk. So it's really important to keep the language alive.

The other problem is that many places with Gaelic populations don't have any train stations (Western Isles etc)

 

[route:oxford]

What's the translation of "IBM"

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Although I'm used to the bi-lingual signs in the Highlands, I was a little suprised to see them at Haymarket, and it did prompt me to wonder if its Gaelic name had ever, historically, been used. (It probably had, at some point).

Now I've no objection to the Gaelic name being added, which in the Lowlands, is almost entirely a response to political ideaology rather than a convenience to those whose first language is not English (more likely to be Gudgurati, French or Polish etc). But I do find it odd where the "newly added" name might never actually have been used and is not currently used by anyone. (for example, who would expect a Flemish translation of Mumbai for the benefit of visiting bi-lingulal Belgians?).

(BTW, I've forgotten what the Gaelic for "hay" is, as used in "Haymarket". Anyone on here know?)

 

[scotsman]

What's the translation of "IBM"

Will just have IBM - as it's known as IBM to everyone

However, it could be translated as Dreuchd Gleus Eadar-nàiseanta

DGE

 

[142094]

We do have Latin at Wallsend on the TW Metro. Isn't there somewhere in Greater Manchester that has Punjabi or similar signage (could be Burnage IIRC)?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

We do have Latin at Wallsend on the TW Metro. Isn't there somewhere in Greater Manchester that has Punjabi or similar signage (could be Burnage IIRC)?

Levenshulme is in Gaelic, English and Punjabi, and Southall is in a similar style (no Gaelic though!)

 

[scotsman]

I have to agree with one of my friend's here, I believe that the Gaelic signage in the lowlands is 'nationalist propaganda'.

However, despite not being an SNP supporter, it'll be nice to see Gleann Iucha (Linlithgow) and Dun Edin Waverley.

 

[90019]

I've never understood why they've only chosen some stations for Gaelic signs. I don't know why Garrowhill or Blairhill don't qualify for Gaelic signs, yet Easterhouse and Shettleston do. Perhaps they just couldn't work out a translation. The signage is more prevalent in the Highlands, where Gaelic is still fairly widely spoken on a day to day basis, than in the Lowlands.

And once you get beyond a certain point in the highlands, all road signs are bilingual as well, with the Gaelic either underneath the English on the same sign or on a separate sign.

 

[scotsman]

And once you get beyond a certain point in the highlands, all road signs are bilingual as well, with the Gaelic either underneath the English on the same sign or on a separate sign.

Comhairle nan Eilean Siar, (some of) Argyle and Bute Council and Highland Council Areas

 

[PR1Berske]

I think it's a great thing to have Gaelic signs in Scottish stations. BUT I know there are some genuine problems.

First, those Highland signs where the Gaelic is not a strict or correct alternative (aren't there some 'best guesses' ?)

Second, which has been touched on in this thread, isn't it questionable to give Gaelic translations prominance where it may not have been spoken before? It may well be more relevant to give places with other minority languages a sign before making up a Gaelic heritage....

 

[Mojo]

Last time I was in South Wales I noticed that the Welsh announcements on the Valley Lines platforms at Cardiff Central were switched off, as were announcements at Cardiff Queen Street. The announcements at Severn Tunnel Junction were also only in English.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I have to agree with one of my friend's here, I believe that the Gaelic signage in the lowlands is 'nationalist propaganda'.

Its hardly likely to be of importance in assisting any passenger or worker.
And that's the problem with politically-motivated multi-lingualism: it often doesn't provide the help that is actually needed

I'd guess that the most useful assistance to non-english speakers would be
a) station facilities (largely indicated by graphics but not entirely)
b) travel connections and local facilities
c) the time-restrictions or date restrictions for local facilities (signage for opening-closing times often include non-translated detail such as days of the week, whether hours refer to being open or closed/ am or pm etc). Some signs are no use to a traveller out-of-tourist season trying to interpret graphics for something that isn't available.
c) how to access further support in a specific language (I've tried using a published "information" help-line number in an alternative language and, depending on your view, is either a comedy or a critical failure). The help-line call points at very many stations are poor in providing multi-lingual support.

Isn't THAT where multi-lingualism could REALLY benefit travellers?

 

[scotsman]

Last time I was in South Wales I noticed that the Welsh announcements on the Valley Lines platforms at Cardiff Central were switched off, as were announcements at Cardiff Queen Street. The announcements at Severn Tunnel Junction were also only in English.

There's no Gaelic announcements in Scotland. ScotRail have said themsleves that pre-existing signage is just for the extra income generated by tourists.

 

[First ScotRail]

I've never understood why they've only chosen some stations for Gaelic signs.

All ScotRail operated stations will have them from now on. Stations which were rebranded prior to new brand guidelines being produced have non gaelic signage. Trains also carry Reile na-h Alba 'Scotlands Railway' on one side of each coach. Class 156, 158 and other units in the new livery have this already. 170 434 doesnt and wont until its got a coat of paint/livery again. Should point out that Haymarket is getting new signage to coincide with the new lifts being installed and a full list of stations due to be rebranded in 2010/11 is available from ScotRails website.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

All stations will have them from now on. Stations which were rebranded prior to new brand guidelines being produced have non gaelic signage. Trains also carry Reile na-h Alba 'Scotlands Railway' on one side of each coach. Class 156, 158 and other units in the new livery have this already. 170 434 doesnt and wont until its got a coat of paint/livery again. Should point out that Haymarket is getting new signage to coincide with the new lifts being installed and a full list of stations due to be rebranded in 2010/11 is available from ScotRails website.

Where abouts mate?

 

[First ScotRail]

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/station-improvements-works-1

Its all within that.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Where abouts mate?

Eh?

You quoted the answer:

All stations

That's all FSR stations.
Mate.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Eh?

You quoted the answer:
That's all FSR stations.
Mate.

I meant the article online. Mate

 

[142094]

I wonder if the Scottish public had a choice between signs in both English and Gaelic or extra spending on actual trains/infrastructure, which one would they choose? As far as I'm concerned all signs should be the same general format like under BR and only be replaced when they need to. Again with liveries - I don't see any point in wasting money everytime a franchise changes. We seem to be experts in the UK at peeing away money down the drain on cosmetic changes then wonder why there isn't money for the carriages and infrastructure that is desperately needed. Just my two pence worth.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

^^^^^ I note how EMT have only Derby and East Mids Pkwy in new styles - all others are BR or MML colours. Same with VT too, half are BR and have are purple and grey

 

[First ScotRail]

Is this not exactly what the new uniformed ScotRail identity is trying to achieve, one identity, being rolled out in line with general maintenance to reduce costs. Scottish stations in the highlands have always had gaelic on their signs for tourism purposes and the extension of this is something which was requested by transport scotland in line with the Scottish Governments scheme to increase the use of gaelic within Scotland. if you look at road signs they are gradually being changed and glasgow city council signs will soon be in gaelic as well..

 

[scotsman]

I wonder if the Scottish public had a choice between signs in both English and Gaelic or extra spending on actual trains/infrastructure, which one would they choose? As far as I'm concerned all signs should be the same general format like under BR and only be replaced when they need to. Again with liveries - I don't see any point in wasting money everytime a franchise changes. We seem to be experts in the UK at peeing away money down the drain on cosmetic changes then wonder why there isn't money for the carriages and infrastructure that is desperately needed. Just my two pence worth.

ah, see - Transport is devolved. Transport Scotland devised the new signage and livery. It won't change for a long time now.

 

[142094]

Good. I'd love to know how much has been spent on livery changes, new signs, new advertising, new paint colours for stations and other crap that really isn't needed since '97. I bet it would pay for a few new carriages that are needed in the Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle areas.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ah, see - Transport is devolved. Transport Scotland devised the new signage and livery. It won't change for a long time now.

Posted just before I replied - this is a good move, along with what East Coast were supposed to be doing on the ECML - but this has taken 13 years to put in place.