GA Fine Dispute

[duck1926]

Hi, having a bit of a nightmare with GA.
Q
I use Trainline to book my trains to Tottenham Hale and London Liverpool St. Now I understand why you use paper tickets in 2026…


Got the good old ‘We have noticed travel irregularities on your Trainline account’ email. Asked them what, they said to present I’ve had a valid railcard from 2022 to now. I present my evidence. Then I got the email below.

I know what they’re basing this off. I buy my tickets for a specific 10:01/10:05 train at 9:50 then enter the station + scan my barcode at 9:57 or 9:58am to not miss my train (as the station is a maze). They think I’m consistently catching the earlier train. But if the next is 3 mins later, and I have 2 mins to catch it (because it always leaves a min early) does GA want me to run across the station in 1 minute???

Please someone help me this is ridiculous


Good afternoon,

Thank you for contacting us regarding your case and providing your railcard evidence.

Ordinarily, it is the policy of Greater Anglia to prosecute all instances of fare evasion under the Railways Act 2005. However, as this is a first-time offence, we are prepared to close the matter upon payment of £135.10. This is the outstanding fares and our administration costs (£100).

Outstanding Journeys:

Full railcard discounted tickets used on peak journeys. (The restrictions are ( all fares must be a minimum of £12.00 if travelling before 10am on weekdays)

RMF	Fare	From	To	Correct Fares	Paid Fares	Amount Avoided
3 Anytime Day Return	£22.40​	BLANK	Tottenham Hale	£67.20​	£32.10​	£35.10​
2 Anytime Day Single	£11.20​	BLANK	Tottenham Hale	£22.40​	£17.50​	£4.90​
						​

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi, having a bit of a nightmare with GA.
Q
I use Trainline to book my trains to Tottenham Hale and London Liverpool St. Now I understand why you use paper tickets in 2026…


Got the good old ‘We have noticed travel irregularities on your Trainline account’ email. Asked them what, they said to present I’ve had a valid railcard from 2022 to now. I present my evidence. Then I got the email below.

I know what they’re basing this off. I buy my tickets for a specific 10:01/10:05 train at 9:50 then enter the station + scan my barcode at 9:57 or 9:58am to not miss my train (as the station is a maze). They think I’m consistently catching the earlier train. But if the next is 3 mins later, and I have 2 mins to catch it (because it always leaves a min early) does GA want me to run across the station in 1 minute???

Please someone help me this is ridiculous


Good afternoon,

Thank you for contacting us regarding your case and providing your railcard evidence.

Ordinarily, it is the policy of Greater Anglia to prosecute all instances of fare evasion under the Railways Act 2005. However, as this is a first-time offence, we are prepared to close the matter upon payment of £135.10. This is the outstanding fares and our administration costs (£100).

RMF	Fare	From	To	Correct Fares	Paid Fares	Amount Avoided
3 Anytime Day Return	£22.40​	BLANK	Tottenham Hale	£67.20​	£32.10​	£35.10​
2 Anytime Day Single	£11.20​	BLANK	Tottenham Hale	£22.40​	£17.50​	£4.90​
						​

Welcome to the forum.

The first point that occurs to me is whether you scan out when you get to Liverpool Street. While it wouldn't be absolute proof (maybe you get the last peak trin to Liverpool Street and then hang round inside the barriers until the first off-peak train comes in, and then leave the station...) if your scan-out times were consistent with getting the off-peak train then that would, to my mind, strongly support your argument that you got the off-peak train.

 

[duck1926]

Welcome to the forum.

The first point that occurs to me is whether you scan out when you get to Liverpool Street. While it wouldn't be absolute proof (maybe you get the last peak trin to Liverpool Street and then hang round inside the barriers until the first off-peak train comes in, and then leave the station...) if your scan-out times were consistent with getting the off-peak train then that would, to my mind, strongly support your argument that you got the off-peak train.

Thanks for your reply. This is what I replied to GA with. I asked them to cross-reference when I scan out of Tottenham Hale with either when the peak train arrives or off-peak train arrives. As the arrival times of the trains have a bigger more noticeable gap.

I’m going to ask the revenue prosecution team now at Platform 10 of LST. Will update

 

[z444z]

There was no need to respond to them in the first place, but at this stage, if you do indeed never use the earlier train that your ticket doesn’t allow, I would simply reply with something like “Your accusations are purely speculative and you have no reasonable basis to accuse me of any wrongdoing, let alone threaten a prosecution which we both know would not succeed. I at all times comply with the restrictions of the ticket I hold. Do not contact me again.”

Don’t do this yet, others might have other opinions including just not responding.

This is absolutely disgusting behaviour from GA.

 

[Trainman40083]

So you are saying you scan your "ticket" before 10.00 to catch a train circa 10.05. Before 10.00, the Railcard discount wouldn't be allowed. After 10.00 it is. Hence the claim for missed fares . . As you say, it takes x minutes to get to the platform, especially if train door close xx seconds before it departs. Of course in winter weather, one has to take extra care, as surfaces maybe icy etc....So can the train operator prove you took a train before 10.00? You make a valid point as to why people buy paper tickets. Bought a few off Peak tickets over the years. Bought 10 minutes before validity, reject at the barrier, tell the gate person which train, get let through.. But no-one can trawl my travel history.

 

[duck1926]

I’m not very clued up on the legal powers surrounding this. Should I not reply, I’m not going to get a criminal record right? I work in a regulated profession so I’d rather pay the fine than actually get a criminal record and be barred.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

Also I spoke to a GA staff member at Liverpool St. They weren’t much help and blamed Trainline. They said I should enquire about what times I scanned out of Tottenham Hale (which I have).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

There was no need to respond to them in the first place, but at this stage, if you do indeed never use the earlier train that your ticket doesn’t allow, I would simply reply with something like “Your accusations are purely speculative and you have no reasonable basis to accuse me of any wrongdoing, let alone threaten a prosecution which we both know would not succeed. I at all times comply with the restrictions of the ticket I hold. Do not contact me again.”

Don’t do this yet, others might have other opinions including just not responding.

This is absolutely disgusting behaviour from GA.

I wouldn’t have replied but they have my address, bank details and email address from Trainline

 

[z444z]

I wouldn’t have replied but they have my address, bank details and email address from Trainline

That doesn’t mean you have any obligation to reply!

 

[saismee]

I’m going to ask the revenue prosecution team now at Platform 10 of LST. Will update

If you meant platform staff, then you're asking the wrong people. The prosecution department is located in Ashbee House which is on Platform 10, but certainly not accessible to the public. You wouldn't be able to talk to these people directly.

I’m not very clued up on the legal powers surrounding this. Should I not reply, I’m not going to get a criminal record right? I work in a regulated profession so I’d rather pay the fine than actually get a criminal record and be barred.

They have no proof and you haven't admitted to anything. There's no possible way they could have proof if you didn't commit the offence, so you can just ignore them and you'll be fine. They'll stop pestering you eventually. AIUI, they send a letter through your letterbox if they are serious about prosecution.

 

[duck1926]

Another thing I’m confused about - there’s no avenue for appeal? This seems really predatory. I can’t appeal through Appeal Service because this wasn’t issued on a train so I don’t have a GU number. Nothing on the GA website about this too.

 

[saismee]

Another thing I’m confused about - there’s no avenue for appeal? This seems really predatory. I can’t appeal through Appeal Service because this wasn’t issued on a train so I don’t have a GU number. Nothing on the GA website about this too.

It's an out of court settlement, not a fine or penalty fare. They're asking you for money instead of taking you to court basically. In this case, they have no grounds for prosecution so it's an empty threat to try and milk money out of you.

 

[z444z]

Another thing I’m confused about - there’s no avenue for appeal? This seems really predatory. I can’t appeal through Appeal Service because this wasn’t issued on a train so I don’t have a GU number. Nothing on the GA website about this too.

You haven’t been given a penalty fare. They are threatening you with criminal prosecution, and no, there is no appeal. You can do what they say or they say they’ll prosecute you. In this case they won’t because they can’t.

 

[Trainman40083]

You haven’t been given a penalty fare. They are threatening you with criminal prosecution, and no, there is no appeal. You can do what they say or they say they’ll prosecute you. In this case they won’t because they can’t.

I have to agree with you. It is up to GA that you repeatedly used a train where the ticket wasn't valid. Unless they stopped the OP in that period, I can't see they have a case. Phishing exercise.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s a fishing trip. Scanning in early doesn’t mean the ticket is used early. Best option is to ignore further correspondence.

If you have been getting the earlier train, you’d best stop though.

 

[z444z]

OP are you comfortable ignoring them, as most of the advice has been, or would you prefer to send them something like in my post #4?

 

[furlong]

The first thing to realise is that you are not dealing with regulated professionals but something more akin to a rogue operation (similar to what happened at the Post Office). If you were dealing with the police, or a solicitor, you would hope to be able to take what they write at face value and at the very least as procedurally correct. But you aren't. These activities need to be reigned in and placed under proper formal oversight.

They had an obligation to check any scan out times against the service arrival times BEFORE putting any criminal allegations to you and they ought to have made it clear that they had done this as it would provide you with clear evidence of any problem.
The normal remedy for disregarding a minimum fare is a contractual one - merely to pay the difference - not prosecute. There is no admin fee involved in a matter like this.
There is an open question anyway as to the correct way to calculate a 16-25 minimum fare, as the terms and conditions say something different from the railway's normal current practice.

What they should have done, rather, is send under-cover inspectors to check tickets on that last service before 10am, or to check tickets of those alighting from that service at that station.

 

[WesternLancer]

There was no need to respond to them in the first place, but at this stage, if you do indeed never use the earlier train that your ticket doesn’t allow, I would simply reply with something like “Your accusations are purely speculative and you have no reasonable basis to accuse me of any wrongdoing, let alone threaten a prosecution which we both know would not succeed. I at all times comply with the restrictions of the ticket I hold. Do not contact me again.”

Don’t do this yet, others might have other opinions including just not responding.

This is absolutely disgusting behaviour from GA.

I agree with this but op could or should wait a few days for more thoughts on here. Keep it polite but firm. ‘I do not believe at any time I have traveled without a valid ticket’.
In a way it’s a ‘take me to court if you don’t believe me’ reply but the op might not want to infer that I guess.

I note the op’s professional status tho so need to be 100% sure nothing has been done wrong before making an overt denial (which is perhaps an argument for sending no reply and ignoring them?). As no response isn’t a denial.

I’d consider stop buying tickets from trainline and switch retailers as they haven’t helped given they have shared data with GA which probably led to this.

 

[anothertyke]

On a quick look I can't see a train in between the 9.54 from Liv St to Cambridge and the 1005 to Stansted which calls at Tottenham Hale. Are you sure you have your timings right? If so, you could ask them what train they think you have caught. If actually you have gone through at say 9.48 and not 9.58, it is all a bit different and it then all depends on the exit time.

 

[z444z]

need to be 100% sure nothing has been done wrong before making an overt denial (which is perhaps an argument for sending no reply and ignoring them?). As no response isn’t a denial.

True. Also I guess sending a response means that if they did actually bring a prosecution your changes of negotiating a settlement at that stage are basically zero, whereas if you’ve simply not responded you might still have a chance.

So while responding would probably be very satisfying, cause less stress than not responding, and might mean they don’t send all the threatening follow ups, it’s definitely not advisable unless the OP is absolutely 100% sure they’ve never got on a train without a valid ticket for that train.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The first thing to realise is that you are not dealing with regulated professionals but something more akin to a rogue operation (similar to what happened at the Post Office). If you were dealing with the police, or a solicitor, you would hope to be able to take what they write at face value and at the very least as procedurally correct. But you aren't. These activities need to be reigned in and placed under proper formal oversight.

They had an obligation to check any scan out times against the service arrival times BEFORE putting any criminal allegations to you and they ought to have made it clear that they had done this as it would provide you with clear evidence of any problem.
The normal remedy for disregarding a minimum fare is a contractual one - merely to pay the difference - not prosecute. There is no admin fee involved in a matter like this.
There is an open question anyway as to the correct way to calculate a 16-25 minimum fare, as the terms and conditions say something different from the railway's normal current practice.

What they should have done, rather, is send under-cover inspectors to check tickets on that last service before 10am, or to check tickets of those alighting from that service at that station.

Sorry if this looks like picking a fight with another contributor, but for every sentence here except those in paragraph 3, you need to assume that it starts with 'In my opinion...'. For example while it might be good practice for the railway to

check any scan out times against the service arrival times BEFORE putting any criminal allegations to you and they ought to have made it clear that they had done this as it would provide you with clear evidence of any problem.

I am not aware of anything in law or the railway's rules which requires this - although in my opinion as well, the railway ought to do this.

So if you do get back to the railway, be cautious on making any of the above assertions without backing them up!

 

[duck1926]

The thing is, I was unaware of everything said on this thread and already replied prior. I asked for the data surronding when I scanned out at Tottenham Hale, or to prove I was specifically on a peak train with an off peak train - otherwise I would not pay the fine.

Slightly regretting that email but I was angry. I won’t send any further

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

Surely, if GA had proof that I was on the earlier train through when I scanned out - they would present this to me?

 

[z444z]

The thing is, I was unaware of everything said on this thread and already replied prior. I asked for the data surronding when I scanned out at Tottenham Hale, or to prove I was specifically on a peak train with an off peak train - otherwise I would not pay the fine.

Ah. Not exactly ideal but far from disastrous. Do let us know what they say!

 

[saismee]

Surely, if GA had proof that I was on the earlier train through when I scanned out - they would present this to me?

This is exactly why they aren't presenting it. They don't have any proof, and if they did, it can't be proven that you did it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

On a quick look I can't see a train in between the 9.54 from Liv St to Cambridge and the 1005 to Stansted which calls at Tottenham Hale. Are you sure you have your timings right? If so, you could ask them what train they think you have caught. If actually you have gone through at say 9.48 and not 9.58, it is all a bit different and it then all depends on the exit time.

The Stansted Express website very unhelpfully has an outdated timetable. The one found here shows an 0928 Stansted Airport to London Liverpool Street, calling at 1000 (or 1000¾ if you go by the WTT).

 

[duck1926]

This is exactly why they aren't presenting it. They don't have any proof, and if they did, it can't be proven that you did it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==


The Stansted Express website very unhelpfully has an outdated timetable. The one found here shows an 0928 Stansted Airport to London Liverpool Street, calling at 1000 (or 1000¾ if you go by the WTT).

Yes that’s the one! Usually I take this train or 10:05 if I miss it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

Yes that’s the one! Usually I take this train or 10:05 if I miss it.

Sorry I meant 10:08. I think the timetables have changed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

I agree with this but op could or should wait a few days for more thoughts on here. Keep it polite but firm. ‘I do not believe at any time I have traveled without a valid ticket’.
In a way it’s a ‘take me to court if you don’t believe me’ reply but the op might not want to infer that I guess.

I note the op’s professional status tho so need to be 100% sure nothing has been done wrong before making an overt denial (which is perhaps an argument for sending no reply and ignoring them?). As no response isn’t a denial.

I’d consider stop buying tickets from trainline and switch retailers as they haven’t helped given they have shared data with GA which probably led to this.

I agree, and I’m going to stop using Trainline as they’ve started charging booking fees

 

[anothertyke]

Sorry I am more confused now. The two journeys shown in the GA s/sheet in post 1 were to Tottenham Hale. Where were they from?

 

[furlong]

And to be clear, you were entitled to pay the difference up to the purported £12 minimum, still using your railcard and Off-Peak where appropriate, so the amounts suggested in your original post may be too high.

However I remain confused as to your actual journeys. (The fares and times suggested Harlow Town with a small rounding error.)

 

[saismee]

Sorry I am more confused now. The two journeys shown in the GA s/sheet in post 1 were to Tottenham Hale. Where were they from?

Ah we may all be mixed up, the original post is unclear whether its TOM (Tottenham Hale) to LST (London Liverpool Street), LST to TOM, or both. Seems to be LST to TOM that GA are taking issue with.

 

[duck1926]

Sorry for the confusion, I get on at Harlow town. Attached is my choice of trains hope this clears the above up

 

[Kite159]

Sorry for the confusion, I get on at Harlow town. Attached is my choice of trains hope this clears the above up

So they are claiming you buy a ticket for the 10:01 service but catch the 09:58 service where the ticket wouldn't be valid due to the £12 min fare due to being before 10am?

I guess as long as you are not exiting Tottenham Hale before 10:24 they can't prove anything (clearly if you left the station at say 10:20 before the 10:01 service would have arrived it would be a different story)

 

[z444z]

I guess as long as you are not exiting Tottenham Hale before 10:24 they can't prove anything (clearly if you left the station at say 10:20 before the 10:01 service would have arrived it would be a different story)

They still could not prosecute because there’s no evidence that the OP was the person using the ticket.

 

[anothertyke]

Post 3 suggests the OP has acknowledged that he/she is the traveller.