GA Diverts

[chris11256]

Forgive what might be a very stupid question.

Currently c2c divert to Liverpool street on occasion and during emergencies.

Has the reverse ever happened where GA or previously NEXA run a train into Fenchurch street?

Thanks

 

[306024]

You are forgiven.

None of the GA crews sign the route from Bow Jn to Fenchurch St so it doesn't happen, but frankly there is little point anyway. Providing you can get to Stratford you have all the connections you need. Fenchurch St is not as well connected as Liverpool St so while there is benefit in c2c coming to Liverpool St the reverse is not true, especially as capacity is limited over the single line from Bow to Gas Factory.

 

[Class 170101]

Also the issue of Track Access Rights. I would suggest GA do not have access rights to Fenchurch Street unlike c2c with Liverpool Street.

 

[bb21]

I would imagine the capacity at Fenchurch Street may also be an issue.

 

[glbotu]

Who does sign Bow Junction to Gas Factory Junction and what is its purpose?

 

[ryan125hst]

Also the issue of Track Access Rights. I would suggest GA do not have access rights to Fenchurch Street unlike c2c with Liverpool Street.

I doubt Track Access Rights would be a problem in an emergency or during engineering works though. I wouldn't imagine that East Coast have Track Access Rights to run from Edinburgh to Newcastle via Carlisle, yet they have done on several occasions during engineering work, and have called at Carlisle for passengers as well.

 

[Searle]

Who does sign Bow Junction to Gas Factory Junction and what is its purpose?

c2c drivers sign it, and around busy shopping periods, c2c run a few services going Barking - Stratford - Fenchurch Street and in reverse, so the people of Essex can get to Westfield easier.

 

[dk1]

Who does sign Bow Junction to Gas Factory Junction and what is its purpose?

Most days you can see c2c running to/from Liverpool St with route learning trips during the day & often arriving via Forest Gate Jn then off again at Gas Factory.

 

[chris11256]

My sole thinking was during Signalling faults or other problems, for example the signalling issues at Liverpool Street today, GA could have dumped some trains out at Fenchurch Street.

 

[dk1]

My sole thinking was during Signalling faults or other problems, for example the signalling issues at Liverpool Street today, GA could have dumped some trains out at Fenchurch Street.

I dont think you will find there is much spare capacity there & the single line would cause more chaos than it solves. Best to just tip them out at Stratford for the Tube, mind you just not tommorow or Wednesday

 

[chris11256]

Maybe it's one of those ideas that works better in theory than in real life

 

[dk1]

Most definatley.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wouldn't imagine that East Coast have Track Access Rights to run from Edinburgh to Newcastle via Carlisle, yet they have done on several occasions during engineering work, and have called at Carlisle for passengers as well.

Altogether now "oh yes they do!"

Schedule 2, Section 3, bullet (cc) of the track access contract to be precise
http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/3924/consolidated-agreement-ecml.pdf

(Track access contracts have 'diversionary rights' for all sorts of weird and wonderful potential diversions.)

edit:

Having checked now, it can be said that GA do have access rights into Fenchurch St, as their track access contract allows them to use any reasonable route for diversionary purposes, subject to obtaining route clearance for the rolling stock used. Although I'm glad I don't have to have the argument about what is defined as a reasonable route in this context.

 

[Muzer]

Maybe the definition should be changed to any route defined by the National Routeing Guide

Then, of course, ATOC could change the Routeing Guide to require TOCs to check the journey on National Rail Enquiries first

 

[ryan125hst]

Altogether now "oh yes they do!"

Schedule 2, Section 3, bullet (cc) of the track access contract to be precise
http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/3924/consolidated-agreement-ecml.pdf

(Track access contracts have 'diversionary rights' for all sorts of weird and wonderful potential diversions.)

edit:

Having checked now, it can be said that GA do have access rights into Fenchurch St, as their track access contract allows them to use any reasonable route for diversionary purposes, subject to obtaining route clearance for the rolling stock used. Although I'm glad I don't have to have the argument about what is defined as a reasonable route in this context.

"oh no they...do" OK, I was wrong.

I was only assuming to be honest. I didn't realise that diversionary routes were subject to track access rights as well. You learn something new every day!

 

[Bald Rick]

I was only assuming to be honest. I didn't realise that diversionary routes were subject to track access rights as well. You learn something new every day!

Here to help
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe the definition should be changed to any route defined by the National Routeing Guide

Then, of course, ATOC could change the Routeing Guide to require TOCs to check the journey on National Rail Enquiries first

As I wrote the post I did wonder how long it would be before someone made that gag.

Less than 3 hours, impressive.

 

[samuelmorris]

c2c drivers sign it, and around busy shopping periods, c2c run a few services going Barking - Stratford - Fenchurch Street and in reverse, so the people of Essex can get to Westfield easier.

I thought 'for busy shopping days' was just a way of putting a positive spin on Fenchurch Street being closed for engineering work?

On another topic, GA stock (i.e. 321s) has been seen on the Fenchurch Street line, and 357s have been on the line to Southend Victoria, but not under their respective "owner"'s services.