GA Class 321 Refresh

[Goldfish62]

Why do they let the Mk3's get into such a state? They look absolutely disgusting - and no doubt the condition is blamed on 'old trains' when the Mk3 coaches run by, say, FGW or Chiltern are all in far far better condition and look nothing like that.

If it makes you feel any better, GA are not alone - SWT, among others, don't do much better with some of their trains - interior of 458 attached.

 

[Goatboy]

The fault started with NX, firstly with their pathetic refurbishment of the trains then the rebranding of from ONE to NXEA, resulting in a tatty interim livery. Then came the interim franchise where there's been no incentive for GA to do anything, apart from manage services during the Olympics. The problem now is that, apart from the 379s and small fleet of refurbished 321s, the whole fleet needs smartening up, which is going to take years and much investment.

And the worst thing is that this sort of unacceptable sloppyness just gets blamed on 'old trains' leading the fallacy that 'new trains' is the answer to everything.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure I read somewhere that the seats have to be easy to take apart so the staff can grab a seat cushion for defence if a deranged passenger is coming at them with a knife. This would seem to make Velcro perfect for the job.

Yes, it was me that posted that and it was something RPIs were/are told when it was National Express (and when NX ran Wagn too). A good tip for anyone else too, should a very unlikely situation like this arise.

I wouldn't say the seats must be designed to be easily removed though, it's just a useful tip for people who might stand a higher chance of being attacked. I wonder if 379 seats are also easily removed?

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, it was me that posted that and it was something RPIs were/are told when it was National Express (and when NX ran Wagn too). A good tip for anyone else too, should a very unlikely situation like this arise.

I wouldn't say the seats must be designed to be easily removed though, it's just a useful tip for people who might stand a higher chance of being attacked. I wonder if 379 seats are also easily removed?

No - modern seats are designed to be vandal proof. The type on the 379s and other modern stock require special tools to remove the seat cushions. In fact the cushions ate an integral part of the back and base.

 

[Wivenswold]

Some of the negativity towards GA does surprise me. As a commuter I have found them to be far superior to NX. Anyone remember having to travel in those damp, disgusting cl322's that initially replaced the last of the 312's?

GA have done small things that make a difference. Trains have cleaners walking through them on stop-overs at Liverpool Street. The now frequent deep cleaning of seat covers. The improved customer service. Most of all, they seem to have taught their staff how to treat customers: remember NX taking a woman in crouches to court because she stood in the vestibule in a 1st class carriage because she needed somewhere to lean. GA wouldn't stoop that low.

Considering the short-term nature of the contract they have done well.

 

[Skimble19]

The negativity is mainly by one particular user who seems to have a particular grudge against GA.. Ignore him like everyone else does - don't feed the troll as they say. No matter what GA do he'll still appear posting his usual mis-informed rants.

 

[moogal]

The other ones never had been refurbished and still had their NSE interiors :P
The FGE units are not being done with new interiors, as FGE refurbished them in 2000ish, Silverlink never refurbsihed the 17 with the NSE interiors.

Adam

I seem to remember Silverlink painting the grab poles yellow and replacing the grey flooring with purple carpets, plus some minor changes to the lighting. Other than that there didn't seem a lot done to them.

 

[bronzeonion]

I don't understand why you'd put carpet in a commuter EMU, it's gonna become stained with all kinds of crap within 6 months!

 

[jon0844]

They must use pretty good vacuum cleaners as I am always quite impressed with how clean the carpets are on trains. Putting vinyl flooring in the vestibules is, however, a very good idea and if the whole train gets vinyl (and is properly sealed) then you can probably hose the floor down every now and then to remove gum and other stains.

 

[Pugwash]

I don't understand why you'd put carpet in a commuter EMU, it's gonna become stained with all kinds of crap within 6 months!

The carpet on the 360's has lasted better than the seats.

I was on a refurbished 321 this morning and I have to say it looked grubby already. The light coloured floor was a mistake imo.

 

[jon0844]

The FCC 313 flooring is light and seems okay. Is it merely dirty or actually marked?

At this time of the year, the floor on any train is likely to be grubby simply because passengers are carrying on the salt from platforms. At Hatfield yesterday, the whole platform and some of the ticket hall was light grey from all the excess salt/grit put down because of the cold weather, that hadn't been washed away or used due to the lack of any more snow.

Even our own driveway (and therefore our hallway) was like this, but after the rain last night I am happy to see that our driveway is no longer looking like it has had paint thrown over it!

 

[klewer]

Some of the negativity towards GA does surprise me. As a commuter I have found them to be far superior to NX. Anyone remember having to travel in those damp, disgusting cl322's that initially replaced the last of the 312's?

GA have done small things that make a difference. Trains have cleaners walking through them on stop-overs at Liverpool Street. The now frequent deep cleaning of seat covers. The improved customer service. Most of all, they seem to have taught their staff how to treat customers: remember NX taking a woman in crouches to court because she stood in the vestibule in a 1st class carriage because she needed somewhere to lean. GA wouldn't stoop that low.

Considering the short-term nature of the contract they have done well.

Totally agree, GA are doing brilliantly considering the shambles they took over from NXEA. (I liked the 322's though - 2+2 seating felt like luxury on the morning commute!)

Given time I think they'd do a great job of tidying up the entire fleet, and their customer service is streets ahead.

The carpet on the 360's has lasted better than the seats.

I wouldn't say that the seats have done too badly - some of them have done 10 years! I think NX re-upholstered a couple of the worst units (in the same material) but generally they've held up well.

They are due a good clean and refresh though.

 

[jon0844]

Most of the wear does seem to be from feet on seats, which isn't really the fault of any TOC but rather dirty passengers showing contempt for other passengers (and ironically themselves when they have to sit on the same damaged and dirty seats).

 

[43074]

Yes, I thought GA were excellent when I was in the region last week. The 170/2s which had gained a reputation for lack of care and dirtyness are now spotless. And there was not even a 156 I travelled on that had a missing seat cushion. So as far as I'm concerned, all is good.

If Anglia were to improve though, they could promote their Anglia Plus range of tickets more enthusiastically as they represent excellent value for money - even better since GA took over.

Fingers crossed Abellio win the long term franchise so they can make some even bigger improvements.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I must say GA are leaps and bounds better than NXEA.

 

[SprinterMan]

I must say GA are leaps and bounds better than NXEA.

They certainly are NXEA, for example, put aside £10mil for complete 321 refurbishment, then immediately decided to take the £10mil for profit, and left the 321s alone. GA immediately gave the NSE interior examples new interiors. It is nice to see

Adam

 

[317666]

I must say GA are leaps and bounds better than NXEA.

I can't agree. The Saturday trains on my local line were 8 cars in the latter days of NXEA, they are now 4 cars and full and standing. I've now noticed that the Saturday Stansted Expresses are also now 4 cars, also full and standing.

I would personally prefer a seat on an unrefurbished train, rather than have to stand on a refurbished one!

 

[bronzeonion]

I can't agree. The Saturday trains on my local line were 8 cars in the latter days of NXEA, they are now 4 cars and full and standing. I've now noticed that the Saturday Stansted Expresses are also now 4 cars, also full and standing.

I would personally prefer a seat on an unrefurbished train, rather than have to stand on a refurbished one!

Shortening trains off peak and at weekends is purely money saving, it's ridiculous

 

[jopsuk]

When I was wiating for a train back to Cambridge on Saturday at Bishops Stortford (my train was an eight crriage 379, I just missed an eight carriage 317) the Stansted Express services I saw were eight carriage 379s...

 

[317666]

When I was wiating for a train back to Cambridge on Saturday at Bishops Stortford (my train was an eight crriage 379, I just missed an eight carriage 317) the Stansted Express services I saw were eight carriage 379s...

That's interesting, recently I've only seen four-car Stansted Expresses on Saturdays. What sort of time was it? I should add that there are a few eight-car Cambridge trains in the middle of the day (after half 10), but this is when less people use them!

 

[306024]

Shortening trains off peak and at weekends is purely money saving, it's ridiculous

Not sure that was quite what you meant to say.

Shortening trains off peak and at weekends is ridiculous if it makes people stand (after all the seats have been taken). And even then load factors of say over 70% are likely to make families think twice about travelling by train if they can't all sit together.

Saving money (or rather not wasting money) is not so ridiculous.

And if THFC are at home all bets are off regarding planned formations as the diagrams are always modified.

Quite what all that has to do in a thread on 321 refurb I'm not sure, so bringing us back on topic having travelled on a refurb 321 today they are not such a bad job. The problem is it is just 17 units out of a fleet of 94, so naturally the others now look shabby by comparison.

 

[bronzeonion]

Not sure that was quite what you meant to say.

Shortening trains off peak and at weekends is ridiculous if it makes people stand (after all the seats have been taken). And even then load factors of say over 70% are likely to make families think twice about travelling by train if they can't all sit together.

Saving money (or rather not wasting money) is not so ridiculous.

And if THFC are at home all bets are off regarding planned formations as the diagrams are always modified.

Quite what all that has to do in a thread on 321 refurb I'm not sure, so bringing us back on topic having travelled on a refurb 321 today they are not such a bad job. The problem is it is just 17 units out of a fleet of 94, so naturally the others now look shabby by comparison.

What I mean by that is when you're on a packed 4 car train and passing loads of idle units in depots it takes the mick abit...

I was just replying to someone who was talking about short formed trains so that's what this is doing in a 321 refurb thread.

 

[306024]

What I mean by that is when you're on a packed 4 car train and passing loads of idle units in depots it takes the mick abit...

I was just replying to someone who was talking about short formed trains so that's what this is doing in a 321 refurb thread.

Yes I do agree, but it is a fact that unit mileage is one of the biggest costs for a TOC. It does depend on the unit and drivers diagrams whether it is easy to strengthen just one or two specific trains, or whether you have to run around as a 8 car all day. The latter is very expensive.

And I meant my waffle about short forming, not your post - so please don't think I was having a dig, it is just amusing to see how threads get diverted from time to time.

 

[Wivenswold]

Well, if you're left standing complain. See what they will do about it.

 

[badassunicorn]

Theres at least one 317 knocking about with this same kind of refresh/seat covers, looks okay- for a 317.

 

[317666]

Theres at least one 317 knocking about with this same kind of refresh/seat covers, looks okay- for a 317.

Yep, 317653, 655 and 658. The other /6s have kept their WAGN seat covers for some reason.

 

[klewer]

Slightly off-topic I know, but does anyone know what's happening to 321448 (The one being refurbed by Eversholt)

 

[nxea321446]

321448 is at wabtec rail doncaster being used as a demonstrator similar to 317722 at ilford with new seats,a disabled toilet, air conditioning, sockets in first class, energy efficient led lighting and new traction motors.

 

[jon0844]

I really, really want to see this 317. It may well give a hint of what can/will be done to the 319s before they're eventually cascaded - and prove that these trains have plenty of life left in them.

In fact, while many people outside of the south east are moaning about being given our cast offs when we get new stock, I suspect these trains might well be far better than the cheaper plastic jobs we get here - and a lot of people will wish we'd kept and refurbished them ourselves.

 

[Skimble19]

321448 is at wabtec rail doncaster being used as a demonstrator similar to 317722 at ilford with new seats,a disabled toilet, air conditioning, sockets in first class, energy efficient led lighting and new traction motors.

Wow, they're STILL only putting sockets in First Class?! If they're gutting the entire trains and starting from scratch, why not go the full hog and do the entire train? It's not like people are going to buy First Class tickets just for sockets!