GA class 156 to EMR

[Failed Unit]

Clearly the new GA 'rural' stock is a little later than planned into full service.
The reasons for that are somewhat muddied and lie between and within DfT, GA, Stadler, NR to name but 4.
If Abellio GA were naive in their Franchise plans, then perhaps Abellio EMR were equally so? Perhaps the latter should have relied on stock from elsewhere? But of course there is/was none from elsewhere.
With just a little forbearance the current situation should soon pass and then be forgotten.
As far as I can tell, GA pax have suffered far more than those of EMR. And I am not for giving one set of pax particular preference over any other.

As the ROSCO owned the stock the shouldn’t have offered it if it was not available. This may have resulted in no-one getting the East Midlands franchise but at least it was all in the open. Now we have a Franchise failing its commitment to bail out another. This should not happen and didn’t happen following the CT split up. Stagecoach were left to sink.

However Albello have form. They returned 8x 170s to the ROSCO once they took over ScotRail. Everyone expected this to backfire. 4 of them went to GTR. The other 4 were subleased back. Performance nose dived. They had spread things too thinly. We know the rest. This was before the 385s and delayed electrification. The parent group didn’t learn lessons from this.

But I still can’t see why one franchise should suffer because of the bad choices of another. Greater Anglia passengers will be compensated. EMRs will get nothing - from a problem not caused by their management.

 

[43096]

As the ROSCO owned the stock the shouldn’t have offered it if it was not available.

Never ceases to amaze me how people are so ignorant of the basics of contracts.

If you rent a house on a 12 month lease, then tell the owner with a month to go that you don't want to extend it, what do you expect the owner to do? Sit tight and do nothing just in case you change your mind? Or do they go out and look for a new tenant? Pretty obviously they are going to do the latter. That is no different to what has happened with the GA fleet.

 

[Failed Unit]

Never ceases to amaze me how people are so ignorant of the basics of contracts.

If you rent a house on a 12 month lease, then tell the owner with a month to go that you don't want to extend it, what do you expect the owner to do? Sit tight and do nothing just in case you change your mind? Or do they go out and look for a new tenant? Pretty obviously they are going to do the latter. That is no different to what has happened with the GA fleet.

i know perfectly well about how contracts work which is why a so annoyed we are stuck with single carriages. I couldn’t agree more with your post. So why are the ROSCO not supplying EMR the trains as per contract?

Greater Anglia gave them up. The Rosco leased them to someone else. But Greater Anglia are still using them to the determinate of EMR. Why are EMR not enforcing this. It was Greater Anglia after all that set the return date. They could have kept the 156s until 2021 if they wanted to and EMR at this point (well during the bid) would have either.

1. ordered new builds.
2. Find alternative stock (not that we have any)
3. Walked away from the bid.

But the present situation seems to be. We have them at crown point. You can’t take them EMR. We don’t care you have a contract for them. We ordered new trains - we can’t use them so it is now your problem. In your housing analogy it is like me squatting in the house you now legally own because my new build house isn’t finished.

 

[43096]

i know perfectly well about how contracts work which is why a so annoyed we are stuck with single carriages. I couldn’t agree more with your post. So why are the ROSCO not supplying EMR the trains as per contract?

Greater Anglia gave them up. The Rosco leased them to someone else. But Greater Anglia are still using them to the determinate of EMR. Why are EMR not enforcing this. It was Greater Anglia after all that set the return date. They could have kept the 156s until 2021 if they wanted to and EMR at this point would have either.

1. ordered new builds.
2. Find alternative stock (not that we have any)
3. Walked away from the bid.

But the present situation seems to be. We have them a crown point. You can’t take them EMR. We don’t care you have a contract for them. We ordered new trains - we can’t use them so it is now your problem.

I would expect that the leases are all now with EMR, but they are being sub-leased back. Whilst the ROSCO would have to agree any sub-lease this has likely either been driven by Abellio UK or by DfT - certainly DfT would have to approve any sub-lease (yes, really!).

There may also be a question of how many sets Etches Park can take on at a time as each will need some changes when it transfers e.g. internal notices to be EMR, PIS database needs to be updated (Skegness not Sheringham!).

 

[Failed Unit]

It certainly shows how bad the state of the industry is. Greater Anglia took a risk without mitigation of ordering new stock. EMR took the safe option of taking on proved, existing and available stock.

Greater Anglia risk backfires - they keep the trains.
EMR - get shafted.

When you look around.
Stagecoach but in a sensible bid for Southwest - they list. The current owner is in trouble but no sanctions.
TPE - win a bid on a plan based on extraction of revenue from other operating companies (LNER and XC) they can’t deliver - no sanction.
GTR - old ground on their failures - no sanctions.
Northern- you could say network rail are to blame for their problems but CAF are not helping no sanctions.

it sends the message bid risky. If it backfires nothing will happen.

oh well more overcrowding in the new year. Thanks DFT for not enforcing another franchise agreement.

 

[eastdyke]

...
But I still can’t see why one franchise should suffer because of the bad choices of another. Greater Anglia passengers will be compensated. EMRs will get nothing - from a problem not caused by their management.

We are where we are, so ignoring the 'sins of the fathers' and looking at the current issues, exactly the same compensations will be/are available to the pax of both Franchises. I see no difference.

From my POV it is most definitely about the passengers.
[And to repeat] as far as I can tell, GA pax have suffered far more than those of EMR.

 

[Failed Unit]

We are where we are, so ignoring the 'sins of the fathers' and looking at the current issues, exactly the same compensations will be/are available to the pax of both Franchises. I see no difference.

From my POV it is most definitely about the passengers.
[And to repeat] as far as I can tell, GA pax have suffered far more than those of EMR.

I don’t dispute that. But EMR passengers need not suffer at all. West Midlands passengers are not, TfW passengers are not and have their stock.

but as you say we are where we are. Ranting on here won’t make any difference.

 

[Bikeman78]

They can couple to class 153 but not 156/8 apparently. They have class 170 PA and call for aid interfaces which aren't compatible with the ex EMT fleet.

Are there any plans to fix this? It will be a complete pain for control to keep them apart from the other fleets.

 

[hooverboy]

Are there any plans to fix this? It will be a complete pain for control to keep them apart from the other fleets.

I doubt it.

the 156's in question were brought in to replace single/double 153's
it's not very often you see the 156's coupled together on EMR routes.

the 158's do as a routine, and 156+153 on summer nott-skeg, but not so many others run coupled up

 

[Andy Pacer]

I doubt it.

the 156's in question were brought in to replace single/double 153's
it's not very often you see the 156's coupled together on EMR routes.

the 158's do as a routine, and 156+153 on summer nott-skeg, but not so many others run coupled up

Amusingly I have been on 153319+156470 on the Worksop line this afternoon!

 

[153375]

156909 has had another new paint job overnight, been heavily tagged after being left in the sidings at Boston. Hope they can removed it without damaging the vinyl wrap as travelled on this twice yesterday and looked really smart.

 

[LowLevel]

Happens everytime something with a new livery stables at Boston (though it's not the only location). You would have thought they would have learned by now - a good tactic would be to put one there as bait and then find some way of causing the perps to have an 'accident' or at least have some police on hand hiding. I suspect the success rate would be pretty swift!

 

[153375]

Happens everytime something with a new livery stables at Boston (though it's not the only location). You would have thought they would have learned by now - a good tactic would be to put one there as bait and then find some way of causing the perps to have an 'accident' or at least have some police on hand hiding. I suspect the success rate would be pretty swift!

Yes it’s a shame we’re not in third rail land as they’d quite literally get a shock. It’s not the most secure of sidings though as you can walk straight off the edge of the platform. Is there cctv covering the trains or is it just the platforms? Hopefully if there is it will have picked up the person/s and they can be dealt with by the police. As EMR are already short of units it’s not like they can swap it out and get it cleaned off, I would imagine it’s not a quick job either.

 

[hooverboy]

Happens everytime something with a new livery stables at Boston (though it's not the only location). You would have thought they would have learned by now - a good tactic would be to put one there as bait and then find some way of causing the perps to have an 'accident' or at least have some police on hand hiding. I suspect the success rate would be pretty swift!

that would be a bit harsh in my opinion.creating a home-alone style booby trap for said offenders would not be taken kindly in court.

you could probably justify having your own "graffitti team" to spray paint the perpatrators though.
Ideally with a can of holts duplicolour or some similar procurement from halfords.
-good luck explaining that to your parents/classmates/general populace milling around shopping malls etc.

poetic justice to be "tagged" very visibly as a miscreant

paintballing the little buggers with smart water pellets would probably be within the bounds of legality as well.

 

[LowLevel]

I was being a little facetious there hence following it up with my actual point about setting up a police sting. Anyone who knows the network could have said the first new livery train to stable at Boston would be done over and getting hold of this particular group has been on the agenda for a while.

I am not particularly fussed if graffiti artists come to harm while conducting their offences however I am certainly not advocating that train operators go out of their way to harm them!

Little buggers is not an accurate description by the way - they can be very nasty if cornered. A WMR driver and guards manager at Bournville were quite badly assaulted by a gang of them when they interrupted them a few months back.

 

[djpontrack]

Have all the GA 156’s moved to EMR now and have they all been renumbered in 1569xx series?

 

[43055]

Have all the GA 156’s moved to EMR now and have they all been renumbered in 1569xx series?

All have moved across and renumberd. All but 902 are now in EMR livery.

 

[djpontrack]

All have moved across and renumberd. All but 902 are now in EMR livery.

Thanks for that 43055. Do you know if any have made it to Liverpool on the Norwich services or are they restricted to other duties?

 

[dk1]

Thanks for that 43055. Do you know if any have made it to Liverpool on the Norwich services or are they restricted to other duties?

Deleted.

 

[43055]

Thanks for that 43055. Do you know if any have made it to Liverpool on the Norwich services or are they restricted to other duties?

Not sure. They have different CIS system to the other 156 and 158 so it is unlikely they have made it to Liverpool. 1 or 2 are normally on the Derby - Crewe per day.

 

[LowLevel]

They have been to Liverpool.

 

[Murray J]

Thanks for that 43055. Do you know if any have made it to Liverpool on the Norwich services or are they restricted to other duties?

i'm pretty sure i've seen new livery 156s on the route before on railcam, definitely seen the EMR livery 158.