G M Wayfarer Concessionary Fare

[Merseysider]

The thing to do in such circumstances is always either
- to pay the fare and keep the ticket
- not travel but record details of route, time, place and bus fleet number
and the always write and complain to the operator.

Only by so doing will they become aware of an issue and have an opportunity to take steps. If it's specific to a few drivers (which is why you need the data) then they can be trained; if its generic then the company needs to do something bigger. But they need to be told, with specifics, that their staff are getting it wrong.

Spot on.

Stagecoach Manchester's inability to get their drivers to accept PlusBus without fail was the reason I gave up on getting the bus to Salford, and now pay extra for the tram. The tipping point was when two drivers in as many hours started off with 'not valid mate'. I've only ever had one problem with First and that was sorted fairly quickly.

On one occasion, the PlusBus sticker was on the bus window and I was still told 'that's just for the train' by one hopeless driver. You can't win sometimes.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I regularly attend certain meetings where members of the public can "talk" to operators' representatives. And the one common theme throughout any issue raised, is complete vagueness about which specific service. ("I think it was a Tuesday about 11am.") No operator can begin to address members of staff unless or until they know who. You must always be armed with enough data to identify an individual. A ticket will do it; failing that, other specifics are needed.

 

[HowMuch?]

The problem with tickets using special stock is that stations out of the validity area then have an excuse not to sell them. And having to pay extra to get to a ticket selling point INSIDE the area reduces the incentive to use it.

 

[sheff1]

It seems I have been luckier than many others. As I said, I have never had a problem with the GM Wayfarer but have had a few with Plusbus.

I agree, that if refused travel or forced to buy another ticket, reporting the incident to the operator (and to whatever PTEs are called nowadays, if relevant) is the thing to do, but as in the Plusbus cases I have always been able to travel on the bus I first entered without further payment, even after been told the ticket was not valid, I have not reported the incidents.

 

[AY1975]

They are definitely available to anyone over 60.

The reference in the other link to ENCT passes is incorrect as they are no longer issued to people when they become 60 and have not been for some years.

I understand that you can now only obtain a concessionary GM Wayfarer if you have an English National Concessionary Pass.

This means that visitors to Greater Manchester aged over 60 from Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland (or, for that matter, from outside the UK) can no longer claim a concessionary Wayfarer.

 

[185]

If you want a very confused driver be in possession of a ticket valid on Metrolink issued on National Rail stock when Metrolink services get suspended and they tell passengers tickets will be accepted on local bus services!

Quite an exclusive situation in your Trafford area - due to Arriva being the only one of the big three emergency Metrolink bustitutes to not have in-cab radios fitted. Drivers are expected (on their own mobiles, at expense to them, allegedly) to call depot and ask if they are being accepted.

In this day and age, how simple would it be to install some form of data system onto the ticket machines, or if not possible, in the worst case sellotape a 1990s £10 pager onto the dashboard of their buses.

 

[sheff1]

I understand that you can now only obtain a concessionary GM Wayfarer if you have an English National Concessionary Pass.

This means that visitors to Greater Manchester aged over 60 from Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland (or, for that matter, from outside the UK) can no longer claim a concessionary Wayfarer.

Where did you get that understanding ? The new 'beta' TfGM website is clear that anyone aged 60 or over is entitled to the concessionary rate:

https://beta.tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/combination-wayfarer-60+

Do you qualify?
You can buy this ticket if you're aged 60 or over. You don't need a concessionary pass, but you may need proof of your age.

 

[AY1975]

Where did you get that understanding ? The new 'beta' TfGM website is clear that anyone aged 60 or over is entitled to the concessionary rate:

https://beta.tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/combination-wayfarer-60+

I am reliably informed that the Beta version of the TfGM website is out of date, and you should go by the new Wayfarer leaflet and the main TfGM site: www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_wayfarer.aspx

 

[Deerfold]

I am reliably informed that the Beta version of the TfGM website is out of date, and you should go by the new Wayfarer leaflet and the main TfGM site: www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_wayfarer.aspx

If so, they could do with updating the linked Terms and Conditions so they agree.

 

[northwichcat]

I am reliably informed that the Beta version of the TfGM website is out of date, and you should go by the new Wayfarer leaflet and the main TfGM site: www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_wayfarer.aspx

They've finally removed Vale of Llangollen Travel and Warrington Coachways from the list of participating operators.

They've added Springfield but called them Springfield Travel when they actually called Springfield Bus & Coach.

 

[Francis]

This has only just changed. Last week I bought from Chorley ticket office two concessionary Wayfarers at £6 each to go to the airport on Tuesday 11th , and back on Wednesday 12th April. I just showed my Senior Railcard as evidence of being over 60. The change in conditions requiring the ENCP must have come in at the same time as the price increase to £8. Anyway, for the next 2 years and 5 months I will have to pay £13 if I want a Wayfarer. Not good news!

 

[Puffing Devil]

Looks like the price rise only went on the website yesterday! I still have a tab open from the morning with the lower price on. Checking on another computer last night showed the higher prices. I can't see any publication of a change in price.

 

[Harpers Tate]

If the concessionary edition now requires a ENCTS pass alongside then, in fact, there is no need for any validity on buses, since the ENCTS provides that. Thus the £8 is buying train and tram travel only.

 

[John @ home]

If the concessionary edition now requires a ENCTS pass alongside then, in fact, there is no need for any validity on buses, since the ENCTS provides that. Thus the £8 is buying train and tram travel only.

http://www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_wayfarer.aspx

TfGM have increased the price of an Adult Concessionary Wayfarer from £6 to £8, and that of a Child Concessionary Wayfarer from £6 to £6.50.

Transport for Greater Manchester

Choose a Wayfarer to suit you

Group £26 - Up to 2 adults and 2 children. Children must be aged under 16. Proof of age may be required.

Adult £13

Concession £8 – For holders of ENCTS (English National Concessionary Travel Passes for older or disables people.

Child £6.50 – For any children aged 5-15 years (inclusive).

http://www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_wayfarer.aspx

Previously, both Adult and Child TfGM Wayfarer concessionary tickets were issued as undiscounted tickets to destination GM CONC WAYFARER. How are these more expensive tickets issued?

 

[northwichcat]

Reported on another forum that D&G Bus apparently don't accept Wayfarer tickets despite being on TfGM's list of participation operators.

 

[Harpers Tate]

If the concessionary edition now requires a ENCTS pass alongside then, in fact, there is no need for any validity on buses, since the ENCTS provides that. Thus the £8 is buying train and tram travel only.

Actually, I'll correct that. It appears that Wayfarer DOES allow bus use earlier than the ENCTS 0930 start point (and that does not appear to be excluded from the concessionary edition).

So therefore it would be fair (fare?) to say that £8 buys off-peak* tram and train travel, and peak* (only) bus travel.

(* meaning reference to the morning peak 0930 weekday cut-off for Wayfarer on trams/trains, and for ENCTS bus use).

 

[Puffing Devil]

TfGM have increased the price of an Adult Concessionary Wayfarer from £6 to £8, and that of a Child Concessionary Wayfarer from £6 to £6.50.Previously

And Adult £12-> 13. Groups £23->£26

 

[sheff1]

Looks like the price rise only went on the website yesterday! I still have a tab open from the morning with the lower price on. Checking on another computer last night showed the higher prices. I can't see any publication of a change in price.

I asked in the Piccadilly Travelshop today and they said the fares increase does not take place until the end of May. They were not sure of the exact date but thought it was 28th.

I am still awaiting a response from the TfGM policy people regarding the change in eligibility.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I was surprised with the stealth rise. Also surprised that they managed to update the website in advance!

Be grateful that a national ENCTS gets a discount - only Manchester issued ENCTS passes qualify for a discount on the Metrolink. Everyone else pays full fare, including day tickets!

 

[lejog]

I was surprised with the stealth rise. Also surprised that they managed to update the website in advance!

The website seems to have reverted to the old version for the moment.

 

[sheff1]

The website seems to have reverted to the old version for the moment.

Not quite. They have reinstated the current fares but left in the eligibility change from anyone aged 60 or over to holders of ENCTS passes.

 

[185143]

First Manchester are horrendous with Wayfarers! I, and others, have been complaining for years-the genuinely seem to just not give a stuff!

 

[northwichcat]

First Manchester are horrendous with Wayfarers! I, and others, have been complaining for years-the genuinely seem to just not give a stuff!

A number of years ago I was making a return journey from Manchester to Middleton. The driver of the outbound service told me they didn't do returns and sold me a single - I later found out that if he'd sold me a day ticket I would have saved around £1.50. I complained to First Manchester and they sent me a letter in response which just simply said "Thank you for bringing this to our attention." No mention of ensuring they train the drivers to sell day tickets when they are the most appropriate ticket or no offer to refund what I overpaid for my journey.

 

[Laurencew]

So, to condense all this interesting discussion.
I assume I can still buy a Concession GM Wayfarer at an 'out of boundary' station (in my case Chester) by showing the Booking Clerk a 'non Manchester' ENCTS (in my case, Cheshire).
Can anyone confirm that this is the case?
In which case, the only losers seem to be those for whom the ENCTS pass eligibility is rapidly moving from 60 towards the State retirement age.
Laurence.

 

[ashworth]

In which case, the only losers seem to be those for whom the ENCTS pass eligibility is rapidly moving from 60 towards the State retirement age.
Laurence.

That seems to increasingly be the case with many concessions which used to be available to the over 60's. Having just recently reached 60 a few months ago, I made use of the Concessionary Wayfarer when visiting Manchester earlier this year. Now I would have to wait for my 66th birthday to be eligible.
I do sometimes wonder for how long the Senior Railcard will be available at 60. Hopefully, if they do ever decide to raise the age to state pension age those who are already registered and can now renew each year will still be able to do so.

As someone who was lucky enough to be able to retire early on a work pension, I just have to keep telling myself how fortunate I am to have enough money to do this. I have to tell myself that every time I get on the bus in the village where I live and I find myself the only one who has to pay!

 

[sheff1]

I assume I can still buy a Concession GM Wayfarer at an 'out of boundary' station (in my case Chester) ..

TfGM say no. What Chester booking office will say .. ??

 

[Harpers Tate]

I have previously successfully bought a GMPTE Concession Wayfarer
- from the conductor on a Northern train that was outside the area and not on the Hope Valley
- from Sheffield ticket office
in both cases helped by showing them a previous expired ticket.

It's also true to say, I have been refused in both these locations as well.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Any PayPoint retailer should be able to sell the ticket - though not all can find them. It's listed as TfGM Wayfarer in their ticketing menu.