Future Routes that would be viable?

[Waverley125]

-Extend the Current Nottingham-Cardiff XC service to Cleethorpes via Lincoln in the north, and Swansea via Bridgend in the south.

-Second TP service for Hull going to Holyhead via Leeds, Huddersfield, Victoria, Warrington BQ, Runcorn East & Chester

-Hull to Harrogate stopping service via York

-Second TP service for Scarborough, continuing on to Shrewsbury via Leeds, Huddersfield, Victoria, Piccadilly, Manchester Airport and Crewe

-Liverpool to Newcastle 'fast' TP service calling Manchester Vic, Huddersfield, Leeds, York & Darlington only

-Assuming the Horbury-Low Moor line were reopened, Bradford to St Pancras, calling Heckmondwike, Barnsley, Sheffield, Chesterfield and St Pancras.

-St Pancras to Leeds hourly calling Bedford, Leicester, Langley Mill, Alfreton, Sheffield, Rotherham & Wakefield Westgate

 

[Lee_Again]

I was under the impression that the Hertford Loop currently extended journey times by ~20 minutes.

When mixed with the existing slow services, yes. But with the correct timetable and power upgardes it's only a few extra minutes. It's only a fraction longer than the welwyn route.

Years back, just after the Hatfield accident, the slows were removed and it was non-stop from Stevenage to Kings Cross. It was regularly done in less than 30 mins.
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I don't really agree with Zoe on much when it comes to climate change but here I do think she has a point. I'm not sure if the cause will be due to climate change concerns but I do think that the future of cheap short-haul air travel is not bright. Increasing oil prices are almost certainly going to mean that the days of being able to fly from the UK to the South of France or Cyprus or any of those other islands for fifty quid are going to come to end sometime in the next twenty years or so. It might well be that you're faced with either spending thousands on flying to Nice or hundreds on taking the train. Personally in that situation I know which I would choose

What's going to power the trains?

"Next twenty years"... Once the car problem is solved (fuel) the demand for oil will fall, along with the price. When the 'Greens' let us build Nuclear power stations cheap electricty will further reduce the demand for oil. The days of £50 returns to Nice have already long gone. If you're going on holiday with a bag or two, and in the school holidays, you'd be lucky to change out of £150.

Nobody loves train travel more than me but future development must be sensible. In the UK we must have HS lines to the West, North West, North East and Scotland as well as one going from Bristol to Birmingham joing the other lines. Once this is started I'd be looking to string wires all over the place. All bar the smallest lines should be electrified.

In terms of the trains. Let's build trains that 'work'. What I mean by that is this. A 6 coach train from Glasgow joins, in the borders somewhere, with a 6 coach train from Edinburgh, another 3 coach train from the Inverness/Stirling area and a further 3 coaches from Aberdeen/Dundee. All 18 coaches, having joined with little fuss (that's what I mean by 'work'), race to London in less than 3 hours. One stop in the midlands for thos that wish to go West. Imagine these journey times.

Ednburgh/Glasgow>London 3h15
Ednburgh/Glasgow>Midlands 2h15
Midlands>Bristol/Cardiff 1h15
Ednburgh/Glasgow>Bristol/Cardiff 3h30
Newcastle>London 1h45
Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds>London 1h20

 

[IanXC]

Personally I think a Bristol - Birmingham New Street service operated by Either LM or FGW would work using a fleet of 172s 100mph version but with tables.

Stopping at Bristol Parkway, Gloucester, Cheltenham Spa,Worcester Parkway (if it ever opens) Bromsgrove, Birmingham New Street.

Gives a Direct Link between Cheltenham Spa and Bromsgrove

I'd run it via Shrub Hill and Kidderminster.

I agree, but I'd route it via Shrub Hill and Kidderminster to a new north facing bay at Snow Hill.

What we could do, is a sleeper going from edinburgh to paris, Leaving edinburgh at about 7, then going along the ECML to retford, then turning off down the robin hood line to nottingham, down the MMl to STP, and then along HS1. With a bit of luck and 125mph stock, it could pick up from STP around midnight and then go to paris/europe for the morning.

Without specifically wanting to take it out of your backyard, I'd say there'd be a good case for going via, and calling at, Leeds on such a service.

 

[ainsworth74]

Without specifically wanting to take it out of your backyard, I'd say there'd be a good case for going via, and calling at, Leeds on such a service.

I think you'd be crazy not to do that personally then you could also hit Sheffield before running down the MML I also think missing out Leeds would pretty much sink any case for running such a service.

(Sorry Yew but I'm just saying it like I see it )

 

[MP33]

Re build the line from Braintree to Stansted Airport as the road across Essex is pretty poor between Harlow and Chelmsford.

Re build the Aswellthorpre curve from Wymondham to the GE main line as a relief route for freight workings from Felixstowe to the Midlands.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

If BAA weren't so greedy and anal over "their" Heathrow tracks then it would not take a great deal to set up an Airport-Link service between Heathrow and the other "London" airports.

Heathrow - Acton M/L - WLL - Hendon - Luton Airport Parkway

Heathrow - Acton M/L - NLL - Stratford - Stansted Airport

Heathrow - Acton M/L - North Pole - Gatwick Airport

Heathrow - Acton M/L - Stratford - London Southend Airport

Heathrow - Acton M/L - Willesden J. - London Birmingham Airport

I suppose that there North London Line is a tad crowded though.

 

[Yew]

I think you'd be crazy not to do that personally then you could also hit Sheffield before running down the MML I also think missing out Leeds would pretty much sink any case for running such a service.

(Sorry Yew but I'm just saying it like I see it )

No worries, I just chose a route near me as I knew it wouldnt need any reversing. (And also so I would be able to see it from my grans house)

Would it be possible to go from sheffield via nottingham? or would East Midlands Parkway be the closest realistically?

 

[ainsworth74]

Would it be possible to go from sheffield via nottingham? or would East Midlands Parkway be the closest realistically?

There would be reversal at Nottingham unless you then went down the ECML from Nottingham rather than the MML (though looking at it is their a link between the Nottingham - Lincoln line and the ECML?). So I would have to say that East Midlands Parkway would probably have to suffice as a link for Nottingham.

 

[Flywaver]

Judging by passenger numbers from Peterborough to Cambridge and Stansted perhaps XC heading down the ECML to York using Voyagers as the Stansted bay can now take a 4 car.
Another one would be Lincoln to either Norwich or Stansted. XC or EMT perhaps.. Obviously pathing issues and traction availability.... Why should High Speed services be heading to Kings Cross when the paths are all taken...Even Norwich to Newcastle perhaps...

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

@Lemming It's not London Birmingham yet, it's Birmingham Airport at the moment.

 

[exile]

Direct Liverpool-Newcastle services

Liverpool-Hull

(above 2 services replacing Liverpool-Scarborough)

North Wales-Manchester-Leeds

North Wales-Manchester-Sheffield

Chester-Runcorn-Liverpool S Parkway-Liverpool

 

[Class172]

I agree, but I'd route it via Shrub Hill and Kidderminster to a new north facing bay at Snow Hill.

Now of course I would be for this route.

I guess the fourth platform could come from where the metro platform is currently (when it ever gets moved).

 

[Aictos]

I don't think that diesals are allowed in the Thameslink tunnel?

I pretty sure they are allowed, City Thameslink for one has extractor fans.

As to GN services, once the upgrades to the Hertford Loop and improvements to the track layout between Langley Junction and Stevenage including a new platform at Stevenage are done then I would like to see the following services.

1 Hertford North terminator to be cut back to Gordon Hill using the reinstated Platform 4

1 Letchworth terminator to be cutback to Stevenage using the new Platform 5

1 Hertford North terminator to remain as it is.

1 Peterborough/Cambridge semi fast diverted via Hertford North with the first stop being Hertford North then all stations to Peterborough/all stations to Letchworth, Royston then Cambridge.

This would improve links from Hertford northbound as well as be a better use of resources.

 

[billio]

Mainly for coolness, and linking more towns (I would appreciate Windermere having more links)

It would be useful to have a direct, fast service from Leeds (or even York ) to Windermere in order to get to the Lakes. It's a right pig to drive to the Lake District from there and using the Morecambe train and changing at Lancaster is a real time waster, as is going via Manchester.

Alternatively let's have Windermere trains stopping at Carnforth.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Preston to Southport via Burscough curves. Also linking Ormskirk. (The curves need reinstating)

 

[exile]

It would be useful to have a direct, fast service from Leeds (or even York ) to Windermere in order to get to the Lakes. It's a right pig to drive to the Lake District from there and using the Morecambe train and changing at Lancaster is a real time waster, as is going via Manchester.

Alternatively let's have Windermere trains stopping at Carnforth.

Which would need the mainline platforms to be reinstated -still a good idea though.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Preston to Southport via Burscough curves. Also linking Ormskirk. (The curves need reinstating)

YES! (or Glasgow-Southport perhaps, by a new TPX stopper via the Cumbrian Coast and a new station at Barton Grange, also calling at Carstairs?)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

YES! (or Glasgow-Southport perhaps, by a new TPX stopper via the Cumbrian Coast and a new station at Barton Grange, also calling at Carstairs?)

Who would use an IC train via the Cumbrian Coast?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

YES! (or Glasgow-Southport perhaps, by a new TPX stopper via the Cumbrian Coast and a new station at Barton Grange, also calling at Carstairs?)

You state a "TPE stopper" via the Cumbrian Coast. What stations between Carlisle, Barrow in Furness and Lancaster would you propose on that part of the route?

Would you not feel a direct Glasgow to Blackpool WCML service would have more appeal, as many Glasgow people holiday there already, even allowing for reversal at Preston. I have always thought it would have been a good idea for the LNWR to have the foresight for a curve to have been installed north of Preston to make a connection with the Blackpool line to prevent any need to use Preston station.

 

[TheWalrus]

Bristol-birmingham semi fast and extending cardiff-nottingham to operate swansea-lincoln-cleethorpes are ideas ive had!
But the latter i posted about to the forum months ago, and most people on here said it wasnt a good idea.

 

[judethegreat]

Bristol-birmingham semi fast and extending cardiff-nottingham to operate swansea-lincoln-cleethorpes are ideas ive had!
But the latter i posted about to the forum months ago, and most people on here said it wasnt a good idea.

I think it is, and/or Swansea-NorthEast and SouthWest-Nottingham/Cleethorpes (and Hull/Scarborough?), perhaps have portions doing all this (with whatever stock).
Imagination going further, Weymouth and Salisbury via Westbury, and Swindon; and Bradford via Barnsley, Huddersfield and Halifax all onto the XC network (the latter StPancras aswell?). Or XC via Stockport, Stalybridge, Hudds, Halifax to Bradford?

 

[Tim B]

Where the Blackburn line crosses the WCML south of Preston, there used to be a loop back northwards just before the current Lostock Hall station back to rejoin the WCML northbound. Line now built over and a can see now sign of it on the groung on Google Earth. It was used for direct Newcast and Glasgow trains to reach Blackpool without reversing in Preston.
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You state a "TPE stopper" via the Cumbrian Coast. What stations between Carlisle, Barrow in Furness and Lancaster would you propose on that part of the route?

Would you not feel a direct Glasgow to Blackpool WCML service would have more appeal, as many Glasgow people holiday there already, even allowing for reversal at Preston. I have always thought it would have been a good idea for the LNWR to have the foresight for a curve to have been installed north of Preston to make a connection with the Blackpool line to prevent any need to use Preston station.

Where the Blackburn line crosses the WCML south of Preston, there used to be a loop back northwards just before the current Lostock Hall station back to rejoin the WCML northbound. Line now built over and I can see no sign of it on the ground on Google Earth. It was used for direct Newcast and Glasgow trains to reach Blackpool without reversing in Preston though passing through it twice !

 

[fairliered]

You state a "TPE stopper" via the Cumbrian Coast. What stations between Carlisle, Barrow in Furness and Lancaster would you propose on that part of the route?

Would you not feel a direct Glasgow to Blackpool WCML service would have more appeal, as many Glasgow people holiday there already, even allowing for reversal at Preston. I have always thought it would have been a good idea for the LNWR to have the foresight for a curve to have been installed north of Preston to make a connection with the Blackpool line to prevent any need to use Preston station.

There is already a direct Glasgow - Blackpool service on summer Saturdays. It's just not well advertised.

 

[ValleyLines142]

There is already a direct Glasgow - Blackpool service on summer Saturdays. It's just not well advertised.

I think it's a 1730 departure off Blackpool, attaching to another service from Manchester at Preston.

 

[billio]

Which would need the mainline platforms to be reinstated -still a good idea though.

That's true.

Thinking a bit more about Leeds services, I wonder if one TPE service to Manchester Airport from the NE could be diverted to run from Church Fenton via Castleford and Wakefield. The difference in mileage is minimal.

This would open up a new market, free an E-W path through Leeds and this particular service would not be overflowing with Huddersfield - Dewsbury - Leeds - York commuters. The track and stations are all there to be used.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think it's a 1730 departure off Blackpool, attaching to another service from Manchester at Preston.

Saturdays from 30 June-14 September only. Northbound it joins the 1300 ex-MIA (into GLC at 1630) at Preston. Southbound it is 1010 off Glasgow, splitting at Preston once again.
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That's true.

Thinking a bit more about Leeds services, I wonder if one TPE service to Manchester Airport from the NE could be diverted to run from Church Fenton via Castleford and Wakefield. The difference in mileage is minimal.

This would open up a new market, free an E-W path through Leeds and this particular service would not be overflowing with Huddersfield - Dewsbury - Leeds - York commuters. The track and stations are all there to be used.

It takes much longer though, as I recall when that last happened on diversions, working around other trains meant it took 15-20 mins longer. This would be about 2008-2009 I'm going off.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Saturdays from 30 June-14 September only. Northbound it joins the 1300 ex-MIA (into GLC at 1630) at Preston. Southbound it is 1010 off Glasgow, splitting at Preston once again.

Oh right. I do remember a 1730 Blackpool-Glasgow service last summer however.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It takes much longer though, as I recall when that last happened on diversions, working around other trains meant it took 15-20 mins longer. This would be about 2008-2009 I'm going off.

You are quite correct in this, as on the day a few years ago when a locomotive fouled the running lines when coming from Neville Hill depot and blocking all the Leeds to York lines, our First TPE service from Manchester Airport to Durham pulled into Leeds as normal, then reversed and took the route through Woodlesford and Castleford before then regaining the route northwards at Church Fenton to York. Whilst a most enjoyable diversion, it certainly added some time to the journey to Durham. Were you not coming from Blackburn to Leeds that very day?
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Saturdays from 30 June-14 September only. Northbound it joins the 1300 ex-MIA (into GLC at 1630) at Preston. Southbound it is 1010 off Glasgow, splitting at Preston once again.

Thanks for that information. It is not exactly what you would call a regular DIRECT service from Glasgow to Blackpool.

 

[Stats]

Getting in to the complete realms of fantasy I've recently been entertaining the thought of an alternative cross-country route avoiding Birmingham, although you would need to reopen an old line. My route would be Newcastle - Milton Keynes via Sheffield, Nottingham (where it would reverse) and Northampton. This would involve the rebuilding of Market Harborough - Northampton line. It could possibly continue to Oxford and Reading via the E-W Rail link. It would connect the ECML, MML, and WCML (and GWML if extended to Reading) avoiding London and Birmingham which really appeals to me.

Meanwhile back in the real world...

 

[Anvil1984]

That's true.

Thinking a bit more about Leeds services, I wonder if one TPE service to Manchester Airport from the NE could be diverted to run from Church Fenton via Castleford and Wakefield. The difference in mileage is minimal.

This would open up a new market, free an E-W path through Leeds and this particular service would not be overflowing with Huddersfield - Dewsbury - Leeds - York commuters. The track and stations are all there to be used.

It would probably take an hour to go York via Huddersfield avoiding Leeds as per this. The issue is linespeed from Church Fenton through to Cas more than anything, if this was speeded up then it would be more competitve timewise