Does anyone know if the takeover by National Express of some Rhineland RE services will result in any frequency or timing changes? I and my colleagues regularly use RE1 and RE5 between Koeln Hbf and Duesseldorf Flughafen. At present they each run hourly at the awkward spacing of 20/40 mins apart. I read that NE are only taking over RE 1, so I predict some confusion on this route after 2017! By the way, these trains can be absolutely stuffed at peak periods now, despite being longish double-deck trains.
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Future Rhineland RE services
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I doubt it. Like the UK these "franchises" have interavailabile ticketing. It's only the open access operators in Germany that often don't use the DB ticketing system (but I believe HKX have not long joined it by choice).
Edit: talking of HKX they seem to be retrenching substantially - down to Thursday-Sunday, one train pair per day, but two days a week extending to Frankfurt. I guess it's not working out for them.
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duesselmartin
Established Member
the idea is a 15 min interval on the main Rhine-Ruhr corridor. This will be achieved by combining RE1/2/5/6 on that route. I suspect its more reshuffling than a large amount of extra trains. The transformation period to full operating RXX is 15 years. Much can change until then.
RE1 and 5 are constantly overcrowded dispite having 6 double deckers. I dont have any hope for any improvement here.
RE1 and 5 are constantly overcrowded dispite having 6 double deckers. I dont have any hope for any improvement here.
I wonder how they will fit more RE trains in. They use the fast tracks between Koeln-Duesseldorf-Duisburg and these are also used by DB IC and ICE trains plus the odd interloper like Thalys and HKX. The parallel S-Bahn tracks are busy with stoppers, so not many useful paths there. I guess the only way around the overcrowding is yet longer trains.
WestCoast
Established Member
They all have interavailable ticketing, but it's fairly common for them to offer their own slightly cheaper 'special offer' tickets. For example BOB/Meridian in Bavaria offer their Guten Tag Ticket which undercuts the Bayern Ticket by 2 euros with the same conditions, but only travel on BOB/Meridian services is permitted.
ODEG in Berlin, Brandenburg etc also offer day excursions on their trains, at Christmas they are going to the Nuremberg Market.
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gordonthemoron
Established Member
The ODEG Christkindlmarkt excursion to Nuremburg looks fun, 5 hours there, 5 hours in Nuremburg and 5 hours back in a 4 coach double decker
WestCoast
Established Member
The RE1 was RAMMED today with Karneval in Cologne, there wouldn't have been enough seats on a 12 car double Decker!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
While I know the UK is hardly the pinnacle of avoiding overcrowding, should Germany perhaps consider adopting some UK principles like skip-stopping and higher frequencies (but with German-style long double decker trains rather than our silly little short ones) in order to solve this?
maxiboy
Member
Higher frequencies are a great idea, but it's a chicken and egg kind of problem.
The infrastructure is not exactly up to today's standards and there is a shortage of staff, and to some extent rolling stock as well. Rolling stock financing is a huge issue, especially smaller operators that are not DB owned struggle to receive competitive funding unless the local transport authorities operate their own rolling stock financing/rental scheme (which is still rather uncommon). On top of that the public transport funding provided by the federal level is quite erratic.
However in German political culture, the railway is considered firstly an instrument of public employment, not an instrument of regional economic development, or a service to the tax paying public. (Whereas fairly detailed punctuality and reliability data is displayed at railway stations in Britain, VBB the Berlin/Brandenburg local transport authority does not release detailed data "owing to legal restrictions" :roll: (Quality Report Sep 2015, p 7).)
There was a lot of scaremongering both in Nuremberg and Berlin when the local S-Bahn networks were put to tender, and at least in Berlin these campaigns apparently have been successful, with politicians backing down to the demands of a certain clientele. So even the funds that are available are spent quite irresponsibly.
The infrastructure is not exactly up to today's standards and there is a shortage of staff, and to some extent rolling stock as well. Rolling stock financing is a huge issue, especially smaller operators that are not DB owned struggle to receive competitive funding unless the local transport authorities operate their own rolling stock financing/rental scheme (which is still rather uncommon). On top of that the public transport funding provided by the federal level is quite erratic.
However in German political culture, the railway is considered firstly an instrument of public employment, not an instrument of regional economic development, or a service to the tax paying public. (Whereas fairly detailed punctuality and reliability data is displayed at railway stations in Britain, VBB the Berlin/Brandenburg local transport authority does not release detailed data "owing to legal restrictions" :roll: (Quality Report Sep 2015, p 7).)
There was a lot of scaremongering both in Nuremberg and Berlin when the local S-Bahn networks were put to tender, and at least in Berlin these campaigns apparently have been successful, with politicians backing down to the demands of a certain clientele. So even the funds that are available are spent quite irresponsibly.
WestCoast
Established Member
The Rhein-Ruhr seems like a difficult area to cater for in general. You've got 11 million people living in 7 medium to large cities or in towns/villages near them, all within a relatively small area of 2,750 square miles. There generally isn't the capacity for expansion of "fast" services and the area is already extensively covered within and between some cities by everything from tramways to suspended monorails. The Cologne and Bonn tram networks merge into each other for example.
To give that scale, the so called "London Metropolitan Area" which is Greater London plus a defined Commuter Belt is similar at 14 million for 3,236 square miles, of which London itself (with a dense transport network) covers only 671.0 square miles. In the Rhein-Ruhr's case it's heavily polycentric, there isn't a distinct flow to a city and people don't travel in a set direction in the peak making strengthening more difficult.
A remarkable area really. The Randstad in the Netherlands and Flemish Diamond are similar, but just don't have the scale that the Rhein-Ruhr does.
To give that scale, the so called "London Metropolitan Area" which is Greater London plus a defined Commuter Belt is similar at 14 million for 3,236 square miles, of which London itself (with a dense transport network) covers only 671.0 square miles. In the Rhein-Ruhr's case it's heavily polycentric, there isn't a distinct flow to a city and people don't travel in a set direction in the peak making strengthening more difficult.
A remarkable area really. The Randstad in the Netherlands and Flemish Diamond are similar, but just don't have the scale that the Rhein-Ruhr does.
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Using part of it fairly regularly, I find the Rhein-Ruhr system fascinating. Some could say that the polycentric nature of the region is an advantage from the transport point of view, as the loadings are not as heavily asymmetrical as London's. That seems to work for Germany's inter-city network, as the whole country is a lot more polycentric than GB. There are plenty of fast services between the main cities in the region. The problem is that the fares vary depending on the train. You can pay top whack for an ICE, middle-whack for an IC or bottom whack for RE, RB and S-Bahn. The latter fares are very attractive because they also include local transport at each end, whereas the DB fares for shortish routes do not. And for my journeys from Flughafen Duesseldorf, even with ICE/IC I would generally have to do the Duesseldorf end of the journeys on a slower mode, but still pay the top prices! For me it's super annoying that the best value trains for my journey, RE1 and RE5, have this 20/40 min split every hour. If they just prised another path in so that they could be at regular 20 min intervals, I would be a contented bunny!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Rhein-Ruhr is arguably more similar to the North West conurbation than London and the South East - but is much busier.
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