Future Railway Lines

[RobShipway]

I was wondering, other than high speed lines such as HS2 is there ever going to be any new local lines being built in the future?

To me it seems silly when you have many towns within the UK, where there is a lot of housing and industry that has been built in those areas, but the nearest railway station to those is a good few miles away. Many of these places certainly around rush hour peak road traffic times, have large amounts of traffic.

I know, currently the budgets are not within the DFT for building railway lines, but it does struck me as odd that there is finances within the DFT for building new roads or restructuring existing roads such as the work going on at the A27 in Lancing, West Sussex.

Towns such as Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean within the last 30 years have had an almost doubling of properties within the last 30 years, but very little changes to the A259 other than providing a bus lane. I suspect that there is many similar areas around the country where you have just as much, if not more growth in properties than say Peacehaven, but still have no station either because the town is not nearby an existing railway line or if close to a railway line, no thought has been given about providing that town with a railway station as councils believe that providing roads and local bus services is enough.

Apologies, if this question has been asked before in any thread.

 

[A0]

I know, currently the budgets are not within the DFT for building railway lines, but it does struck me as odd that there is finances within the DFT for building new roads or restructuring existing roads such as the work going on at the A27 in Lancing, West Sussex.

It's not "odd" at all - the reality is roads are far more flexible and are multi use e.g. emergency services, goods delivery and even for passenger - multi mode i.e. car, bike, pedestrian. Railways simply can't offer that level of flexibility.

Then there's a matter of cost - dualling an existing road varies according to local conditions (i.e. geology etc) but you're starting at ~£15m / mile whereas new rail lines are triple that and add some more.

And to take one of the places you've cited - Peacehaven - that's 2.5 miles away from Newhaven station, Saltdean is 4 miles to Newhaven station - there are many large towns where the station is further away than that - where I live in Northampton there are several areas of the town which are 4 miles or more from the station, same is true of places like Hemel Hempstead, Swindon among others.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's not "odd" at all - the reality is roads are far more flexible and are multi use e.g. emergency services, goods delivery and even for passenger - multi mode i.e. car, bike, pedestrian. Railways simply can't offer that level of flexibility.

Then there's a matter of cost - dualling an existing road varies according to local conditions (i.e. geology etc) but you're starting at ~£15m / mile whereas new rail lines are triple that and add some more.

And to take one of the places you've cited - Peacehaven - that's 2.5 miles away from Newhaven station, Saltdean is 4 miles to Newhaven station - there are many large towns where the station is further away than that - where I live in Northampton there are several areas of the town which are 4 miles or more from the station, same is true of places like Hemel Hempstead, Swindon among others.

Its not just the proximity of the existing line, where would such a line even go? I don't particularly know the area in question but looking at the maps these towns are sufficiently built up so as not to allow a direct line through their centres, and the surrounding landscape to the north is probably going to lead to some serious challenges. I can't honestly say that there would ever be a case given the relatively low populations, proximity to an existing line as well as (I assume) bus alternatives.

Perhaps the OP's question should be the other way around. Instead of should existing new towns and expanding ones retrospectively be connected, should it be a consideration before planning is granted? And perhaps even more pertinent is should future developments be focused around where existing infrastructure would allow new stations to be built as part of and new or expansion of existing towns?

 

[devon_belle]

Forever is a long time, my bets would be that ther almost certainly will be brand new railway lines in the future. In the short to mid term I suspect public transport connections to the nearest railway station, or new stations as close as possible on existing railway lines will be far more common. Purely to save cost and the issue of acquiring people's land.

Are you including the reopening of old railway lines? If so the chances are probably higher, given the right business case and area. I wonder if we will see more and more freight lines get a passenger service soon...

 

[A0]

Forever is a long time, my bets would be that ther almost certainly will be brand new railway lines in the future. In the short to mid term I suspect public transport connections to the nearest railway station, or new stations as close as possible on existing railway lines will be far more common. Purely to save cost and the issue of acquiring people's land.

Are you including the reopening of old railway lines? If so the chances are probably higher, given the right business case and area. I wonder if we will see more and more freight lines get a passenger service soon...

Bit in bold - I wouldn't be so sure - unless it's a rebuild of an existing freight line or something very specific within a major city e.g. Barking Riverside - which is an easily accommodated extension of an existing service - then I very much doubt we'll see any new passenger lines. Freight, yes, that's possible because it will be tied up with the development of a freight terminal or similar.

Its not just the proximity of the existing line, where would such a line even go? I don't particularly know the area in question but looking at the maps these towns are sufficiently built up so as not to allow a direct line through their centres, and the surrounding landscape to the north is probably going to lead to some serious challenges. I can't honestly say that there would ever be a case given the relatively low populations, proximity to an existing line as well as (I assume) bus alternatives.

And there are lines in reasonable proximity - building a line through Peacehaven et al would be running in parallel to the line from Newhaven to Brighton via Falmer and Lewes. Now I know here on RF that makes all sorts of interesting 'diversion' options (a forum favourite) but the reality is that doesn't even come close to making a viable business case - that's before you look at the points you make.

 

[Irascible]

I can see two scenarios for new "local" lines ( rather than rebuilt existing little or dis-used oens )
* Other local infrastructure can't cope & can't sensibly be upgraded - I would think there's very few places where a completely new rail alignment would be the solution of choice, but maybe there's something somewhere.
* A poorly connected location is growing fast, which is more likely. Are there any locations slated for large expansion ( other than around Cambridge ) which aren't already connected?

I think we're more likely to see rebuilds of trunk routes which is what rail is better at. Maybe changes in transport ( self drive pay as you go hire cars, for instance ) will change rails attractiveness for iintermediate travel upwards again. You could say "well why not hire the car to drive all the way", but rail *is* quicker over a certain distance, and perhaps rentals for long distance are going to cost more ( could well unbalance inventory, etc ).

 

[MarkyT]

And there are lines in reasonable proximity - building a line through Peacehaven et al would be running in parallel to the line from Newhaven to Brighton via Falmer and Lewes. Now I know here on RF that makes all sorts of interesting 'diversion' options (a forum favourite) but the reality is that doesn't even come close to making a viable business case - that's before you look at the points you make.

The biggest problem with the suggested line in particular is the terrain, and the extent of development blocking any viable alignment today. It's not surprising LBSCR chose an inland route to get to Newhaven via Lewes rather than following the coast more closely, even when development was much sparser. The A259 is a good fast road and it would be difficult for any notional rail service to outperform current bus services. The bus lane presumably tackles any morning Brighton-bound traffic tailbacks effectively, ensuring reliable journey times. I suppose in the longer term it's plausible rails might be laid in or beside the road for a tram/light rail route along the corridor but I can't see that beating bus journey times, and longer bendy-buses might be an alternative means of providing more capacity per service. Electrification via overhead trolley wires could be an option for the buses, perhaps partial wiring with traction batteries and en-route charging along the main trunk only.

 

[RobShipway]

Its not just the proximity of the existing line, where would such a line even go? I don't particularly know the area in question but looking at the maps these towns are sufficiently built up so as not to allow a direct line through their centres, and the surrounding landscape to the north is probably going to lead to some serious challenges. I can't honestly say that there would ever be a case given the relatively low populations, proximity to an existing line as well as (I assume) bus alternatives.

Perhaps the OP's question should be the other way around. Instead of should existing new towns and expanding ones retrospectively be connected, should it be a consideration before planning is granted? And perhaps even more pertinent is should future developments be focused around where existing infrastructure would allow new stations to be built as part of and new or expansion of existing towns?

That is perhaps more the way I should have worded indeed. I believe consideration before build should be considered as to transport needs.

Forever is a long time, my bets would be that ther almost certainly will be brand new railway lines in the future. In the short to mid term I suspect public transport connections to the nearest railway station, or new stations as close as possible on existing railway lines will be far more common. Purely to save cost and the issue of acquiring people's land.

Are you including the reopening of old railway lines? If so the chances are probably higher, given the right business case and area. I wonder if we will see more and more freight lines get a passenger service soon...

I am not including the re-opening of old railway lines, these would be railway built new from scratch, which is what is happening for the most part with building HS2.

Bit in bold - I wouldn't be so sure - unless it's a rebuild of an existing freight line or something very specific within a major city e.g. Barking Riverside - which is an easily accommodated extension of an existing service - then I very much doubt we'll see any new passenger lines. Freight, yes, that's possible because it will be tied up with the development of a freight terminal or similar.



And there are lines in reasonable proximity - building a line through Peacehaven et al would be running in parallel to the line from Newhaven to Brighton via Falmer and Lewes. Now I know here on RF that makes all sorts of interesting 'diversion' options (a forum favourite) but the reality is that doesn't even come close to making a viable business case - that's before you look at the points you make.

Thing is in the original plans of how Peacehaven would develop which where drawn up in the 1930's, it was actually thought that by now there would be either a tramline or railway line through or by Peacehaven in some form.

I can see two scenarios for new "local" lines ( rather than rebuilt existing little or dis-used oens )
* Other local infrastructure can't cope & can't sensibly be upgraded - I would think there's very few places where a completely new rail alignment would be the solution of choice, but maybe there's something somewhere.
* A poorly connected location is growing fast, which is more likely. Are there any locations slated for large expansion ( other than around Cambridge ) which aren't already connected?

I think we're more likely to see rebuilds of trunk routes which is what rail is better at. Maybe changes in transport ( self drive pay as you go hire cars, for instance ) will change rails attractiveness for iintermediate travel upwards again.

The above is part of my point with regards Peacehaven - Rottingdean area. The A259 runs near to the cliff edge from Telescombe Cliffs area of Peacehaven, through westwards to Rottingdean, then on into Brighton. There is no telling as to what part the A259 road will be such that the area it is on may fall into the Sea. So at some point a road that goes round the back of Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean would likely need to be built, possibly with connections to the A27 where possible. But this also means that you could also build a tramline or railway line alongside that new road.

The biggest problem with the suggested line in particular is the terrain, and the extent of development blocking any viable alignment today. It's not surprising LBSCR chose an inland route to get to Newhaven via Lewes rather than following the coast more closely, even when development was much sparser. The A259 is a good fast road and it would be difficult for any notional rail service to outperform current bus services. The bus lane presumably tackles any morning Brighton-bound traffic tailbacks effectively, ensuring reliable journey times. I suppose in the longer term it's plausible rails might be laid in or beside the road for a tram/light rail route along the corridor but I can't see that beating bus journey times, and longer bendy-buses might be an alternative means of providing more capacity per service. Electrification via overhead trolley wires could be an option for the buses, perhaps partial wiring with traction batteries and en-route charging along the main trunk only.

See my comment above.

 

[MattRat]

Multiple factors to contend with, from the DaFT to NIMBY's. The only thing I see getting the go ahead is tram lines, due to the popularity of trams, but even that could be a stretch.

 

[stuu]

That is perhaps more the way I should have worded indeed. I believe consideration before build should be considered as to transport needs.


I am not including the re-opening of old railway lines, these would be railway built new from scratch, which is what is happening for the most part with building HS2.


Thing is in the original plans of how Peacehaven would develop which where drawn up in the 1930's, it was actually thought that by now there would be either a tramline or railway line through or by Peacehaven in some form.


The above is part of my point with regards Peacehaven - Rottingdean area. The A259 runs near to the cliff edge from Telescombe Cliffs area of Peacehaven, through westwards to Rottingdean, then on into Brighton. There is no telling as to what part the A259 road will be such that the area it is on may fall into the Sea. So at some point a road that goes round the back of Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean would likely need to be built, possibly with connections to the A27 where possible. But this also means that you could also build a tramline or railway line alongside that new road.

See my comment above.

There was originally an electric light railway planned in the 1920s, but obviously it never happened.

It would take a lot of engineering to build a railway through Peacehaven, it would need tunnelling and viaducts I would have thought, and then what do you do at the Brighton end? Not sure how much of the Kemp Town branch could be reused, I suspect not a lot. It would be tricky even for light rail with the gradients through Rottingdean. At the moment there is a very good 24 hour bus service and I would have thought the only realistic possibility is more bus lanes and perhaps more light rail style stops and off-bus ticketing to speed journeys

As a more general point, I would have thought that light rail with tram-trains is probably the most likely thing to built in future, there's very little local heavy rail being built anywhere across Europe these days which isn't high speed or metro

 

[JamesT]

I was wondering, other than high speed lines such as HS2 is there ever going to be any new local lines being built in the future?

To me it seems silly when you have many towns within the UK, where there is a lot of housing and industry that has been built in those areas, but the nearest railway station to those is a good few miles away. Many of these places certainly around rush hour peak road traffic times, have large amounts of traffic.

I know, currently the budgets are not within the DFT for building railway lines, but it does struck me as odd that there is finances within the DFT for building new roads or restructuring existing roads such as the work going on at the A27 in Lancing, West Sussex.

Towns such as Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean within the last 30 years have had an almost doubling of properties within the last 30 years, but very little changes to the A259 other than providing a bus lane. I suspect that there is many similar areas around the country where you have just as much, if not more growth in properties than say Peacehaven, but still have no station either because the town is not nearby an existing railway line or if close to a railway line, no thought has been given about providing that town with a railway station as councils believe that providing roads and local bus services is enough.

Apologies, if this question has been asked before in any thread.

Does East-West Rail count? Assuming it gets approval that will be new build between Bedford and Cambridge.

 

[Bartsimho]

What future railway lines?

There will be non. There is never a business case for anything beyond the London boundary and everything must feed into London itself.

Well at least some attitudes make it seem like that

 

[30907]

I am struggling to think of places of any size that were never served by railway and where one might be practicable.

Biggin Hill (population 11k) in Kent (sorry, Greater London) came to mind. It's not exactly a new idea, the gradients would be challenging but not impossible, but I can't see any possibility of reaching the main line at Orpington (as was planned 100 years ago), and even getting to Warlingham would be challenging. The route I crayoned in my teenage years from east of Bromley S no longer exists either. Sorry!

IMO any new local routes will be light rail - or re-use an existing trackbed (Ashington, Okehampton, Portishead....), or both.

 

[stevieinselby]

I was wondering, other than high speed lines such as HS2 is there ever going to be any new local lines being built in the future?
...
Towns such as Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean within the last 30 years have had an almost doubling of properties within the last 30 years, but very little changes to the A259 other than providing a bus lane. I suspect that there is many similar areas around the country where you have just as much, if not more growth in properties than say Peacehaven, but still have no station either because the town is not nearby an existing railway line or if close to a railway line, no thought has been given about providing that town with a railway station as councils believe that providing roads and local bus services is enough.

One of the biggest problems for new-build railway lines is that of urban access. The ideal railway station is at the heart of the community it's serving, but for most towns that don't have a railway, it would be challenging to build a line through them in such a way that you could get a station at that central location unless there's a disused trackbed that hasn't been encroached on by development. That would mean that stations to serve these towns would largely be parkway stations outside the main urban area, which significantly reduces the utility and attractiveness of them to most passengers.

What I think we will see more of is light rail. Trams can easily be built where heavy rail is a non-starter – they can climb steeper hills, turn sharper corners, and can run on-street if there isn't space to provide them with a dedicated right of way. The engineering challenges to running a heavy rail service to Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean would be insurmountable in practical terms, but if TPTB felt that buses were insufficient for that route then putting tram tracks along the A259 from Newhaven to Brighton would be a more realistic prospect.

 

[RobShipway]

One of the biggest problems for new-build railway lines is that of urban access. The ideal railway station is at the heart of the community it's serving, but for most towns that don't have a railway, it would be challenging to build a line through them in such a way that you could get a station at that central location unless there's a disused trackbed that hasn't been encroached on by development. That would mean that stations to serve these towns would largely be parkway stations outside the main urban area, which significantly reduces the utility and attractiveness of them to most passengers.

What I think we will see more of is light rail. Trams can easily be built where heavy rail is a non-starter – they can climb steeper hills, turn sharper corners, and can run on-street if there isn't space to provide them with a dedicated right of way. The engineering challenges to running a heavy rail service to Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean would be insurmountable in practical terms, but if TPTB felt that buses were insufficient for that route then putting tram tracks along the A259 from Newhaven to Brighton would be a more realistic prospect.

Many places that have stations are not always at the heart of the town where they are located. From memory, a few of the stations on the heart of Wales line, are in fact 2 - 3 miles away from the towns or villages that they actually serve.

With regards to tram tracks that serves Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean, I would personally place it in fields where possible, to the north of these places, which would be as far away from the clifftop area of the A259 road as much as possible. The reason for this, is down to the fact that the cliff area on this section is getting less and less, due to cliff fall, which seems to be happening at larger amounts than was anticipated 5 or more years ago.

 

[stevieinselby]

Many places that have stations are not always at the heart of the town where they are located. From memory, a few of the stations on the heart of Wales line, are in fact 2 - 3 miles away from the towns or villages that they actually serve.

Yes. And the consequence is that they are not well used.
Many stations on the HOW serve very small communities and so passenger numbers and local resident numbers are sketchy, but looking at the actual towns that are outside the immediate pull of Swansea, there is a clear outlier.
You can draw a pretty straight line through Llanwrtyd, Llandeilo, Llandovery, Knighton and Llandrindod, but Builth Wells is miles away. Literally, 2 miles away.
It's a similar sized town to many of the others, it is similarly remote from other major towns, and it has the same level of service, but it has about one-third the number of rail passengers that you would expect ... because the station is 2 miles away, and the other stations are in or close to the town centre. That's why we don't want to build stations that are on greenfield sites way out of town.

With regards to tram tracks that serves Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean, I would personally place it in fields where possible, to the north of these places, which would be as far away from the clifftop area of the A259 road as much as possible. The reason for this, is down to the fact that the cliff area on this section is getting less and less, due to cliff fall, which seems to be happening at larger amounts than was anticipated 5 or more years ago.

OK, I'll bow to your local knowledge on where would be best to build the tram tracks ... but the point remains that you could build tram tracks there, where you couldn't build heavy rail.

 

[zwk500]

With regards to tram tracks that serves Peacehaven, Saltdean and Rottingdean, I would personally place it in fields where possible, to the north of these places, which would be as far away from the clifftop area of the A259 road as much as possible. The reason for this, is down to the fact that the cliff area on this section is getting less and less, due to cliff fall, which seems to be happening at larger amounts than was anticipated 5 or more years ago.

(topographical map of the area)

If you stay north of the current towns, you need to go to Woodingdean to get onto a reasonable corridor into Brighton (and that will not be easy to get trams through). That's one mighty hill to climb, even for a tram system. There's a reason the road and railway between Brighton and Lewes stayed on the low ground.
It's a shame because I think there'd be a good market for a tram between Brighton and Newhaven through Woodingdean and Peacehaven, but the terrain is seriously against you. For context the straight-line distance between Brighton Station and Newhaven is 14.28km, or 8.9 miles.

 

[RobShipway]

View attachment 137765
(topographical map of the area)

If you stay north of the current towns, you need to go to Woodingdean to get onto a reasonable corridor into Brighton (and that will not be easy to get trams through). That's one mighty hill to climb, even for a tram system. There's a reason the road and railway between Brighton and Lewes stayed on the low ground.
It's a shame because I think there'd be a good market for a tram between Brighton and Newhaven through Woodingdean and Peacehaven, but the terrain is seriously against you. For context the straight-line distance between Brighton Station and Newhaven is 14.28km, or 8.9 miles.

But as I was trying to say earlier, you stay on the low ground, you have the worry of cliff erosion as was mentioned in an article by The Argus back in 2017: https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/15181043.a259-could-fall-into-the-sea-within-15-years/

Details on the cliff erosion certainly in Peacehaven, can be found within the University of Sussex PDF chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/http://www.sussex.ac.uk/geography/researchprojects/coastview/student-projects/richard-screen.pdf.

The photo in The Argus article was taken in Saltdean, which in my mind is one of the places that the A259 is likely to disappear from 2032. Hence, as I stated earlier a new road needs to be built, but I personally would also be building either a light rail system or tram line alongside that new road. I would as you state @zwk500 be including Woodingdean or possibly a station for residents of Rottingdean and Woodingdean within those plans.

Rather than climbing the hill though and it would probably be the same with the road, I would look at the possibility of a tunnel. I know my Dad once said that when a new road is built, then a railway line should be built underground beneath it, but I am not sure whether the ground within the area would be strong enough to hold an underground railway/light rail or tram line as well as a major road on top of it that would certainly need many connections off it, so that the people in the towns could be travelling to Brighton. Certainly for the road you would also want connectivity with the existing A27. But i believe you would also want an ability with the tram line/light rail to not only be travelling to Brighton, but also travelling to Lewes, so there would also need to be a connection either eastwards from the west into Lewes or be joining the existing line from Newhaven, but that would mean that Newhaven Town station would need to be moved North of the town or a new station possibly called 'Newhaven Junction' is created for the junction between the two railways.

 

[m79900]

I think if more railway lines were needed, they'd look at restoring old alignments as opposed to building brand new railways. The only trouble is, many have been converted into bike trails, heritage railways, or somethings been built on it.

 

[NoRoute]

There is something of a problem that the railway network, not just its stations, but also the routes reflecting the passenger and goods flows of the 19th century with some adjustments during the rationalisation of the 1960s.

I think the M1 corridor is a great example of this, Milton Keynes built in the 1960s just up the M1 from Luton, but no rail line or service between the two, MK and Northampton just down the M1 from Leicester but no rail route or competitive rail service.

No one would ever build the WCML or MML along their current routes if starting today, their routes reflect the urban development and industrial freight flows of Victorian England, not the needs of 2023. But the cost of changing anything involving the railways seems to be so enormous that improvement becomes impossible.

 

[stevieinselby]

There is something of a problem that the railway network, not just its stations, but also the routes reflecting the passenger and goods flows of the 19th century with some adjustments during the rationalisation of the 1960s.

I think the M1 corridor is a great example of this, Milton Keynes built in the 1960s just up the M1 from Luton, but no rail line or service between the two, MK and Northampton just down the M1 from Leicester but no rail route or competitive rail service.

No one would ever build the WCML or MML along their current routes if starting today, their routes reflect the urban development and industrial freight flows of Victorian England, not the needs of 2023. But the cost of changing anything involving the railways seems to be so enormous that improvement becomes impossible.

Northamptonshire as a whole is poorly served by rail.

Northampton itself, as the county town (historic county, seeing as they have now split the administrative county) is far and away the biggest town, but only gets about a half-hourly service to Milton Keynes and London in one direction, and Birmingham in the other ... but no other stations in the county apart from one serving the village of Long Buckby.

Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby are close contenders for 2nd, 3rd and 4th towns in the county, and have a decent half-hourly service to each other and to Bedford, Luton and London ... but nothing to Northampton itself.

Other towns in the county have no rail service at all.

A great line to have would be Daventry – Northampton – Wellingborough – Rushden (with intermediate stations), connecting the 5th and 6th towns in the county to the rail network, and providing links to the county town from those towns and from the MML. (At which point it might make more sense to have the Kettering stop replaced with a Wellingborough stop on the intercity services).

In a dream world, it could continue to Raunds, Thrapston, Oundle and Peterborough, but there we're really getting into fantasy land...

 

[NoRoute]

A great line to have would be Daventry – Northampton – Wellingborough – Rushden (with intermediate stations), connecting the 5th and 6th towns in the county to the rail network, and providing links to the county town from those towns and from the MML. (At which point it might make more sense to have the Kettering stop replaced with a Wellingborough stop on the intercity services).

In a dream world, it could continue to Raunds, Thrapston, Oundle and Peterborough, but there we're really getting into fantasy land...

Reopening Northampton to Wellingborough and so allowing journeys to Kettering and Corby and potentially Stamford and Peterborough would be good.

But that probably comes second, in terms of the total populations benefiting and potential extra journeys, from a North-South link (via Market Harborough, or Rugby-Leicester) to connect Northampton and Milton Keynes, to Leicester, Loughborough and Notts / Derby, that unlocks a lot more rail destinations by removing the need for a lengthy detour via the West Midlands.

 

[deltic08]

It's not "odd" at all - the reality is roads are far more flexible and are multi use e.g. emergency services, goods delivery and even for passenger - multi mode i.e. car, bike, pedestrian. Railways simply can't offer that level of flexibility.

Then there's a matter of cost - dualling an existing road varies according to local conditions (i.e. geology etc) but you're starting at ~£15m / mile whereas new rail lines are triple that and add some more.

The four mile long East Leeds Orbit Road dual carriageway was costed at £110m but eventually cost £120m. A double track new build normal railway (not HS) costs approximately the same but half the land take. More if there are numerous over and under bridges, viaducts and tunnels. Bald Rick will disagree.
I used this road yesterday end to end in the evening peak for the first time. It was almost empty.

 

[MarkyT]

Reopening Northampton to Wellingborough and so allowing journeys to Kettering and Corby and potentially Stamford and Peterborough would be good.

But that probably comes second, in terms of the total populations benefiting and potential extra journeys, from a North-South link (via Market Harborough, or Rugby-Leicester) to connect Northampton and Milton Keynes, to Leicester, Loughborough and Notts / Derby, that unlocks a lot more rail destinations by removing the need for a lengthy detour via the West Midlands.

Although all those MML destinations would also be available via interchange at Wellingborough or Kettering, or trains could run through from Northampton. If desired, trains could run through from further south on the WCML by reversing at Northampton. South end bays might be provided there for terminating or reversing trains.

 

[A0]

The four mile long East Leeds Orbit Road dual carriageway was costed at £110m but eventually cost £120m. A double track new build normal railway (not HS) costs approximately the same but half the land take. More if there are numerous over and under bridges, viaducts and tunnels. Bald Rick will disagree.
I used this road yesterday end to end in the evening peak for the first time. It was almost empty.

Which if that were just for a road would not be favourable - but it isn't.....

And whilst it may have been empty yesterday, it won't be in 20 years time when the council has given the green light to all the development the route is going to support. They've not built a road "in the middle of nowhere" for nothing - it's to support future development.

Balfour Beatty wins £80m Leeds road scheme

Balfour Beatty has won an £80.6m contract to deliver phase 3a of the Leeds orbital road project. The company beat five other bidders to the contract,

www.constructionnews.co.uk

"Balfour Beatty has won an £80.6m contract to deliver phase 3a of the Leeds orbital road project.

The company beat five other bidders to the contract, which had an initial estimated tender value of £75m. Phase 3a covers the main construction works for the East Leeds Orbital Route (ELOR) and will see a new 7km dual carriageway built."

It also covered rather more than 7km of road

Leeds predicts and provides with new road

Councillors in Leeds have put a green spin on the new East Leeds Orbital Route

www.highwaysmagazine.co.uk

The council said the scheme also provides 14km of dedicated cycleways, pedestrian, and equestrian pathways, as well as specially designed access points to improve connectivity to surrounding areas. Arch bridges allow walkers and cyclists to cross over the carriageways and large, wide underpasses allow passage underneath.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jun 2023 ==

Reopening Northampton to Wellingborough and so allowing journeys to Kettering and Corby and potentially Stamford and Peterborough would be good.

Quite apart from the fact there is very limited demand to travel to Stamford or Peterborough from Northampton, good luck with reinstating any line between Northampton and Wellingborough.

This one comes up every so often, and unlike many other posters I have the benefit of local knowledge on this one - where I'm sitting now, I'm less than 2 miles from where the line used to run.

Here are my previous observations on this:

When MML electrification reaches Leicester, what service patterns could operate?

A few weeks back I mentioned this as a credible idea, detailed above. While the leg to Northampton is difficult due to the terrain being rather wet, the leg from Corby to Peterboro' is easily doable. Stations north of Bedford would be better situated via Corby to Peterborough on a single...

www.railforums.co.uk

Proposals for "Northern arc": linking north Oxfordshire (Banbury) with Northampton and Peterborough

I'm sure that @Bald Rick among others as one of said professionals will be delighted that you think he and his colleagues create a "song and dance cost wise"...... I would have commented earlier, but I was top of the bill at the Palladium tonight.

www.railforums.co.uk

Proposals for "Northern arc": linking north Oxfordshire (Banbury) with Northampton and Peterborough

I'm sure that @Bald Rick among others as one of said professionals will be delighted that you think he and his colleagues create a "song and dance cost wise"...... I would have commented earlier, but I was top of the bill at the Palladium tonight.

www.railforums.co.uk

With regard to Stamford / Peterborough from Corby - you have an added problem in that you can't head south>east at Manton Junction (and never could just for the record), so either you need a new south>east chord or you head up to Oakham to reverse. And please don't go regurgitating the ridiculous "Welland Valley Railway" scheme which is an abject waste of some perfectly good crayons.

 

[eldomtom2]

Fundamentally you'd want to start such a question by examining road traffic flows and where such traffic could be redirected onto rail to achieve your goals (presumably stuff like emissions and pollution reductions etc).

 

[30907]

Although all those MML destinations would also be available via interchange at Wellingborough or Kettering, or trains could run through from Northampton. If desired, trains could run through from further south on the WCML by reversing at Northampton. South end bays might be provided there for terminating or reversing trains.

Of the two routes available, Market H looks the better bet (with a short new build over open land south of MH); via Wellingborough would add local traffic, but be a fair bit slower to Leicester.

Fundamentally you'd want to start such a question by examining road traffic flows and where such traffic could be redirected onto rail to achieve your goals (presumably stuff like emissions and pollution reductions etc).

Agreed. Hence a route aiming towards Leicester and beyond makes sense. It's a moot point which option is overall better - sadly, I fear it's academic

 

[Ken H]

I did wonder if some chord to allow Leeds - Windermere trains.something in the Cafnforth area. Not sure if enough demand
Maybe more likely would be to make a railway 4 track by building a diversion for 2 tracks. Like the Northampton loop. Wasnt there such a route for Dewsbury-Leeds long ago. And of course Aviemore - Forres.

 

[Cambus731]

In keeping with what I interpret to be the spirit of the OP, available funds permitting, I do think there would be scope for either a light rail line between Chelmsford and Braintree via Springfield and all the Beaulieu development. It could certainly be constructed alongside the river Chelmer as far as North Springfield then cross over what is now the A1016, (until recently the A130 primary route) , through Beaulieu, then extended alongside and in conjunction with the yet to be built A131 diversion to Braintree. And with a spur across the fields to Broomfield Hospital. I'll put my crayons away now.

 

[zwk500]

I was wondering, other than high speed lines such as HS2 is there ever going to be any new local lines being built in the future?

Do you mean completely new alignements? EWR is obviously one, but other than that I'm not sure of any serious proposals.

Re-openings that would involve some new/rebuilt track but on largely original alignments (at least in part) that are being actively looked at include Portishead, Fawley/Hythe Branch, and Grain branch (among others).