Future plans for Paddington station

[Surreyman]

Crossrail & GW Electrification will be in place by 2020.
Platforms 3 - 11 already have OHLE.
I believe platforms 1 & 2 will have OHLE installed.
What are the future plans for the short platforms P12/13/14?
If platforms 12 & 13 can only take 3 car units, can they be extended or will they not be needed when Crossrail opens? (Greenford trains no longer running into Paddington, 'Inner-Suburban' services run by Crossrail via new underground platforms etc.
How long is platform 12 - i.e what max length units can it accomodate?

 

[YorkshireBear]

There will still be other services that only run a 4 car EMUs i believe. So if they can be extended for them they will be usable.

 

[mister-sparky]

There will still be other services that only run a 4 car EMUs i believe. So if they can be extended for them they will be usable.

I thought that was one of the main problems with the Greenford's, they're too short and use up valuable paths?

 

[tbtc]

I thought that was one of the main problems with the Greenford's, they're too short and use up valuable paths?

I think that the flat crossing would mess up the "frequent" Crossrail services - plus the Greenford services wouldn't justify the length of a Crossrail EMU.

 

[cjp]

Crossrail & GW Electrification will be in place by 2020.
Platforms 3 - 11 already have OHLE.
I believe platforms 1 & 2 will have OHLE installed.
What are the future plans for the short platforms P12/13/14?
If platforms 12 & 13 can only take 3 car units, can they be extended or will they not be needed when Crossrail opens? (Greenford trains no longer running into Paddington, 'Inner-Suburban' services run by Crossrail via new underground platforms etc.
How long is platform 12 - i.e what max length units can it accomodate?

12 presently takes 5 carriage Heathrow Connect and took 6 carriages DMU whilst Reading was shut over Easter by using the entire length up to the buffer stops
13 & 14 can comfortable take 6/7 carriage trains (and possibly longer ones but in regular use have 6 carriage trains going into them in the morning and at night teh odd through train out to the Thames Valley Branches. Are these going to be reduced to shuttles with no through trains when Crossrail gets going??

 

[cle]

I understand that the branches' direct trains are to be kept - these branches will be wired too now, so I suppose either 4 car 319s or 5 car Connect units would run them. Some platforms would be problematic.

I'd imagine they wouldn't be as express as today, as they'd need to skip stop to fall in with Crossrail.

 

[JamesRowden]

12 presently takes 5 carriage Heathrow Connect and took 6 carriages DMU whilst Reading was shut over Easter by using the entire length up to the buffer stops
13 & 14 can comfortable take 6/7 carriage trains (and possibly longer ones but in regular use have 6 carriage trains going into them in the morning and at night teh odd through train out to the Thames Valley Branches. Are these going to be reduced to shuttles with no through trains when Crossrail gets going??

The Crossrail Website shows what they expect to be the Great Western suburban services into Paddington (http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/surface/western-section/#.UYtlHUrx9LM).

It assumes a 2tph all day semi-fast service between Paddington and Reading plus one train per peak to Henley and one train per peak to Bourne End (I guess that this means a 4tph GW peak along the relief lines into Paddington). This service pattern would probably only require one platform off-peak and two platforms during the peak.

 

[Harlesden]

This might be a naive question - due to my lack of route knowledge- but would a London Marylebone-Greenford service be possible?

 

[anthony263]

This might be a naive question - due to my lack of route knowledge- but would a London Marylebone-Greenford service be possible?

It would be difficult since the service would have to reverse at South Ruislip coming from Marylebone. I dont think its possible to do it in the opposite direction i.e. Greenford - Marylebone.

 

[NSE]

It would have to reverse twice, as it would have to reverse at Greenford (LUL Bay Junction) to then travel northbound, which would also cut out the service on the stations on the branch, South Greenford, Castle Bar Park and Drayton Green.

Without looking at passenger usage figures I reckon more people would use those stations as most Greenford passengers would probably use the Central line for anywhere other than the Paddington area itself.

 

[cle]

The Crossrail Website shows what they expect to be the Great Western suburban services into Paddington (http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/surface/western-section/#.UYtlHUrx9LM).

It assumes a 2tph all day semi-fast service between Paddington and Reading plus one train per peak to Henley and one train per peak to Bourne End (I guess that this means a 4tph GW peak along the relief lines into Paddington). This service pattern would probably only require one platform off-peak and two platforms during the peak.

Debate still rages, but if we are to see Crossrail to Reading, at presumably 2-4tph, this would not only free up platforms at Paddington (too short to be used for anything else with Greenford gone too?) - but would mean only the peaks to Henley and Bourne End would be needed.

Would the 5 car 180s fit in platforms 12-14?

If those platforms aren't needed - much more worthwhile would be losing one and passing the space over to London Underground.

A two island/three track arrangement could be built for the Hammersmith & City line - allowing turnbacks in the central line, as per White City. This could then run shuttles to Hammersmith.

Would be much more useful than the future use. It'd only require a new island and one track. The current westbound track could become the terminating track - with the island built up to the train edge so doors could open both sides.

 

[JamesRowden]

Debate still rages, but if we are to see Crossrail to Reading, at presumably 2-4tph, this would not only free up platforms at Paddington (too short to be used for anything else with Greenford gone too?) - but would mean only the peaks to Henley and Bourne End would be needed.

The only justification that I know of for Crossrail not running to Reading that has not been completely removed (e.g. electrification) is the extra stock required.

But when one looks at the proposed timetable involving a peak Reading to Slough stopping service it seems obviously more efficient to merge it with Maidenhead Crossrail services considering:

• Extra Great Western stock required for the Reading to Slough shuttle
• Congestion caused at Slough and Maidenhead by terminating services
• Congestion caused by future Reading to Heathrow services
• The convinience of a direct service between Reading/Twyford and all of the stations to the east of Maidenhead

It would also make sense to make the planned semi-fast between Reading and Paddington a Crossrail service because it would not need to cross the Crossrail paths approaching Paddington and would offer a faster route to Central London. The only disadvantage is the potential impractability of exending it further West than Reading but with the soon to be built viaduct to the West of Reading station, trains will be able to switch from the Oxford reliefs to the Paddington mains without crossing mainline paths. I think that a service that runs non-stop between Paddington and Reading and then all stops to Oxford would be more useful than a merger of the present Paddington to Oxford stopper with the proposed Reading to Paddington semi-fast services.

I think that semi-fast Crossrail services for Twyford and Maidenhead would remove the need for direct services from Paddington to Henley and Bourne End.

 

[edwin_m]

The problem with all that is that anything that runs onto Crossrail really needs to be a 10-car set with a very "short distance" interior layout so as to maximise capacity on the central sectoin. On some routes that would be impossible, inappropriate or unacceptable!

 

[JamesRowden]

The problem with all that is that anything that runs onto Crossrail really needs to be a 10-car set with a very "short distance" interior layout so as to maximise capacity on the central sectoin. On some routes that would be impossible, inappropriate or unacceptable!

I think you have misread my suggestion. By taking Crossrail services as far as Reading but no further it would only take 45 minutes to get from Twyford to Paddington on the stopping service (it takes 47 minutes to get from Elm Park [Zone 6] to Embankment on the District line and so quite similar). The Oxford services that I was suggesting would run fast from Reading to Paddington (NOT CROSSRAIL).

 

[Surreyman]

12 presently takes 5 carriage Heathrow Connect and took 6 carriages DMU whilst Reading was shut over Easter by using the entire length up to the buffer stops
13 & 14 can comfortable take 6/7 carriage trains (and possibly longer ones but in regular use have 6 carriage trains going into them in the morning and at night teh odd through train out to the Thames Valley Branches. Are these going to be reduced to shuttles with no through trains when Crossrail gets going??

I assume platform 12 must be electrified?