Future Operator Branding Names

[Up_Tilt_390]

Now there's been a recent trend lately among Train Operating Companies of branding themselves in a particular way that is reminiscent of the olden railway days. For example, First Great Western in 2015 changed it's branding name to Great Western Railway. When they won the bid in 2016 to continue the running of First TransPennine Express, they simply removed the "First" from their branding (a little bit strange if you ask me given they now own 100% of the shares in contrast to the previous bid).

Outside of FirstGroup, when Govia won the franchise for Thameslink and Great Northern, they named the respective operations after themselves (Thameslink services were branded Thameslink, and Great Northern services we branded as Great Northern, as you all know). Govia have always done this with Merseyside Trains being known as Merseyrail, and the previous West Midlands franchise being called London Midland. Speaking of which, the new operator now split the operation names into both West Midlands Railway, and London Northwestern Railway.

I know it isn't really so much a trend given stuff like that has happened for a while, but it does seem to be happening more often with new operations. So given that, I do wonder what you all think will be the names of future operators when new franchises are awarded. I imagine that if First/Trenitalia or MTR/Guangshen win West Coast Partnership that the names might either be one of several names I can think of.

• West Coast Railway
• London West Coast Railway
• London and West Coast Railway
• London and Scottish Railway
• London Midland and Scottish Railway

That's just a few names I can think of. I wouldn't be surprised if the HS2 operations were named in a separate manner, and in fact I'm kind of expecting it. If Virgin/Stagecoach/SNCF win I imagine it will still be named Virgin Trains. With other franchises, I imagine operations currently done in Wales will be named something of a similar nature. CrossCountry might be named slightly differently or could stay the same. Not many operators are really like Virgin in their branding.

But basically, just for fun, I would like you all to tell me what you think would be the names of any future train operating companies and their respective franchises. As a bonus, maybe you could even say what you would name it in the hypothetical scenario that you ran it. I do look forward to some ideas and suggestions. Also, why not take the poll above as well? Have fun...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As I just posted on the West Coast thread, the WCP prospectus says the branding has to be able to be passed on to another operator.
So that rules out owners' names in the brand.
There's already a "West Coast Railways" based at Carnforth.
LNWR has already been taken by Abellio, although not quite in that form.
"Midland" wouldn't work once HS2b is open to the north-east (though the Midland did reach Leeds).
The WCP network in Scotland is small (much smaller than the LMS was).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Voted for option 2, although I DO know why: it's because if it isn't called British Rail I'd rather the name have a regional geographical component. More importantly though, absolutely NO MEANINGLESS CORPORATE BRANDING! No First (confusing at best), no Stagecoach (it's not a bus or something that might get held up by bandits, hopefully), no Virgin (Standedge would be scary if it was the first run ever!), and no Arriva/Serco/Abellio/whoever especially, as these names are meaningless terms, presumably thought up by someone who did an advertising degree but unfortunately didn't take any linguistics modules as electives!

Specifically on the WCML, I'd be avoiding any reference to the Coast as I've always had a pedant's twitch when it comes to the name for that route: only about 500m of it is actually on the coast!
As LNWR is currently in use, maybe not starting with the L is the way forward- it'd avoid confusion at Euston. Something along the lines of Glasgow Lancashire and Birmingham Railway maybe? But not actually that, because it's terrible!

 

[700007]

I quite liked the nostalgic idea at first but after a while when everyone started doing it, it lost its touch again. Bit disappointed to say that and TOCs should try for other creative names whilst reflecting the main region they go to. c2c I think has to be the best name we've seen to date.

London Northwestern Railway is just so long and tedious to say compared to the former 'London Midland'. The branding was also nicer.

 

[wipers]

Nothing beats the GWR rebrand - an absolute masterstroke in my opinion.

 

[whhistle]

The problem though, comes to when new companies take over.

People don't like Cross Country because of their lousy service. When a new company takes over, the people still won't like Cross Country. Not many seem to know it's currently run by Arriva.

But then I suppose if nobody knows what company is running it, the people would just see it as Cross Country.

 

[DarloRich]

it is meaningless other than to offer some warm feeling about how everything was ok in the past when trains were red and chuffed a bit like Thomas and to give the owning company a bit of brand PR by saying things like building on a heritage of nearly 200 years we at ( Insert operating company name here) are proud to continue the tradition of offering first class service to all of our customer on the (insert route name here) in the finest traditions of ( insert old trains company form 1920/30/40 here). It is all about branding not about service.

They can call the train company princess pinkie pie rainbow dash railways for all I ( and most normal passengers) care as long as the trains run on time and there are enough seats to go a round. However I am not a sentimentalist!

 

[Clip]

They can call the train company princess pinkie pie rainbow dash railways for all I

I like the sound of this

( and most normal passengers) care as long as the trains run on time and there are enough seats to go a round. However I am a mentalist!

fixed that for you

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Nothing beats the GWR rebrand - an absolute masterstroke in my opinion.

Except for when they had to be told they couldn't say "The railway belongs to the people it serves" because it suggested nationalisation. That was hilarious.

 

[SEClass375]

I love all the non-corporate branding although there are 3 franchises that are letting the side down currently (cannot possibly think which ones they are) and how Arriva has slapped on 'by Arriva' on all of its operators apart from XC (I wonder why).

I cannot wait for the dredded day when Stagecoach take over SE and let their 5 yr olds loose with blue, red and orange paint on our nicely branded trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I love all the non-corporate branding although there are 3 franchises that are letting the side down currently (cannot possibly think which ones they are) and how Arriva has slapped on 'by Arriva' on all of its operators apart from XC (I wonder why).

Almost certain XC has now got "Arriva - a DB company" on it.

 

[GatwickDepress]

it is meaningless other than to offer some warm feeling about how everything was ok in the past when trains were red and chuffed a bit like Thomas and to give the owning company a bit of brand PR by saying things like building on a heritage of nearly 200 years we at ( Insert operating company name here) are proud to continue the tradition of offering first class service to all of our customer on the (insert route name here) in the finest traditions of ( insert old trains company form 1920/30/40 here). It is all about branding not about service.

They can call the train company princess pinkie pie rainbow dash railways for all I ( and most normal passengers) care as long as the trains run on time and there are enough seats to go a round. However I am not a sentimentalist!

Hasbro might have something to say about that name though. My Little Pony: Friendship is ma-jor delays due to a points failure...

I agree with you though, nostalgic platitudes mean nothing to passengers when they're playing sardines in a packed carriage or waiting for replacement buses in the pouring rain.

 

[Mathew S]

Almost certain XC has now got "Arriva - a DB company" on it.

Has had for quite a while.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The problem though, comes to when new companies take over.

People don't like Cross Country because of their lousy service. When a new company takes over, the people still won't like Cross Country. Not many seem to know it's currently run by Arriva.

But then I suppose if nobody knows what company is running it, the people would just see it as Cross Country.

Most people seem to think XC is still Virgin, though perhaps less so round here since Virgin got ICEC...

You make a good point though: generic branding that can be transferred between franchise holders is all well and good until someone runs it so bad that the image becomes toxic:- the incumbent will hopefully lose the franchise at the next renewal but whoever comes in then has to rebuild a reputation from the ground up.
It doesn't help that certain companies in the past seemed to love getting the paints out every few years (looking at YOU, National Express and First) even between franchise changes.

 

[mallard]

The only problem I have with it is that it can create confusion (e.g. the fact that many "GWR" and "Great Western" artifacts, many well preserved at major stations, exist outside of First GWR's operating area; I also worry that the fact that "GWR" is now another operator may encourage other TOCs to cover or remove these historic features) and that the poor performance of a modern operator can besmerch the historic name that they've taken (as in the case of "Southern").

 

[ess]

What was the heritage name of services in Yorkshire?

 

[MG11]

I like train operators to be location neutral, so I don't like names that favour a particular region. Alphaline and Virgin Trains are the sort of names I like. Perhaps we could have:

East Midlands Trains - Stagecoach Express
Northern - Metro Travel
Arriva Trains Wales - Arriva Travel

things like that.

A problem with naming trains after areas is they get mixed up i.e. EMT used to recieve tweets from London Midland passengers and I've noticed a few people get South Eastern and Southern mixed up, one person was an enthusiast!

 

[Mathew S]

I like train operators to be location neutral, so I don't like names that favour a particular region. Alphaline and Virgin Trains are the sort of names I like. Perhaps we could have:

East Midlands Trains - Stagecoach Express
Northern - Metro Travel
Arriva Trains Wales - Arriva Travel

things like that.

A problem with naming trains after areas is they get mixed up i.e. EMT used to recieve tweets from London Midland passengers and I've noticed a few people get South Eastern and Southern mixed up, one person was an enthusiast!

I'm minded to agree with that. London Midland & EMT running to/from Liverpool being a prime example of why it's daft.
Cross Country works because that's what it is, and Scotrail of course, as well as Northern up to a point. But I can't think of many others which aren't either vague, confusing, or downright inaccurate.
And the amount of time that VTEC/VTWC spend forwarding people to each others social media is ridiculous.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What was the heritage name of services in Yorkshire?

North Eastern, Midland, Great Central (Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire), Great Northern, Lancashire & Yorkshire, London & North Western, Hull & Barnsley.
Plus various joint lines (combinations of the above).
Most of these were amalgamations around 1850 of the original railways.
The NE, GC, GN and H&B merged into the LNER.
The Midland, LNWR and L&Y merged into the LMS.
At nationalisation (or soon after), east of the Pennines became BR Eastern Region (there was a short-lived North Eastern Region which excluded Sheffield).
West of the Pennines became the London Midland Region.
This actually fragmented the old railway structure, as many lines were now under divided management - notably the Midland and GC.
Most railways today still carry evidence of their original construction and ownership (eg 19th century signal boxes, mileposts etc), whatever the branding on the trains.

 

[goblinuser]

I think location based brand names are clearer for people to understand. It registers as the railway company that runs the train better than brand names which people have not understood well since privatisation.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I can't imagine Lancashire & Yorkshire ever being resurected unless its used for branding routes between York and Blackpool, Leeds - Man Vic, Leeds - Man Picc and Leeds - Huddersfield.

I could imagine that a 21st century L&Y livery would be quite similar to that of GWR, black instead of green.

 

[KashmireHawker]

West Coast Railway would be just perfect (despite possible clash with the West Coast Railway Company) - it's sounds historic, reflects the UK's geology and can have a brand not 1 London Centric and 2 shows off the whole network.

WCR by MTR/Guangshen sounds a decent proposition

 

[Mathew S]

West Coast Railway would be just perfect (despite possible clash with the West Coast Railway Company) - it's sounds historic, reflects the UK's geology and can have a brand not 1 London Centric and 2 shows off the whole network.

WCR by MTR/Guangshen sounds a decent proposition

Except for the fact that next to none of the 'west coast' route goes anywhere near the west coast, or any other coast for that matter.

 

[CeeJ]

Would reverting to the old 'InterCity' branding (presumably with a bit more gloss) count as a neutral brand?

 

[goblinuser]

Would reverting to the old 'InterCity' branding (presumably with a bit more gloss) count as a neutral brand?

Depends how it is set up. If it is used as a brand for a certain type of service as it was under BR, and continues between different operators (like TfL Overground, operated by Arriva but not advertised) then it would be a 'neutral brand'.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm minded to agree with that. London Midland & EMT running to/from Liverpool being a prime example of why it's daft.
Cross Country works because that's what it is, and Scotrail of course, as well as Northern up to a point. But I can't think of many others which aren't either vague, confusing, or downright inaccurate.
And the amount of time that VTEC/VTWC spend forwarding people to each others social media is ridiculous.

So giving no information is better than giving some? Not sure I follow your logic there...

As for the VTEC/VTWC confusion, the problem there is the first two words rather than the last two, surely?

 

[Mathew S]

So giving no information is better than giving some? Not sure I follow your logic there...

As for the VTEC/VTWC confusion, the problem there is the first two words rather than the last two, surely?

I'm not suggesting giving no information, just that it's pointless to give confusing information (eg. East Midlands in Liverpool). I agree re: Virgin.
The important thing, I think, is that names need to be distinctive for all TOCs to avoid confusion, especially over ticket validity. But they also need to be accurate. There's no need at all for a TOC to have any kind of geographical reference in its name, any distinctive branding will do as long as it's easily recognised and not confusing.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not suggesting giving no information, just that it's pointless to give confusing information (eg. East Midlands in Liverpool). I agree re: Virgin.
The important thing, I think, is that names need to be distinctive for all TOCs to avoid confusion, especially over ticket validity. But they also need to be accurate. There's no need at all for a TOC to have any kind of geographical reference in its name, any distinctive branding will do as long as it's easily recognised and not confusing.

But the East Midlands Trains service from Liverpool runs to the East Midlands, just as the Northern service from Nottingham runs to the North. They really aren't that confusing at all. The only ways to avoid these anomalies are to either stop running inter-regional services, or to tender routes out individually so that Liverpool to Norwich is branded as "The Mersey Trent and Norfolk Railway" or something.

Perhaps the best solution is to call everything British Railways... that way there's no inaccuracies, and as everything would be blue people would have to pay attention when they're at the station!

 

[IainG81]

I must say that working on the western Region it's nicer to say I work for "Great Western Railway" got more history to it. I like it as it's not British Rail they may as well be "regional companies" even though they aren't.

 

[Mathew S]

But the East Midlands Trains service from Liverpool runs to the East Midlands, just as the Northern service from Nottingham runs to the North. They really aren't that confusing at all. The only ways to avoid these anomalies are to either stop running inter-regional services, or to tender routes out individually so that Liverpool to Norwich is branded as "The Mersey Trent and Norfolk Railway" or something.

Perhaps the best solution is to call everything British Railways... that way there's no inaccuracies, and as everything would be blue people would have to pay attention when they're at the station!

Or just let the train companies use brand names like Arriva, or Virgin, or Stagecoach, or Metro, or Cocked Hat Railways... as long as it's clear, not confusing, and you can tell the difference between one TOC and another, why on earth does it matter.
I agree that saying 'I work for GWR' feels and sounds better than 'I work for First', but I also think that's a 'nice to have', not an essential.