Future of Ticket Office Consultations launched

[davews]

I can't answer for @davews but for me because buying from the ticket office takes under a minute. Even if the ticket is one click on a TVM, so not have to work through a journey planner with date, outbound time, return time then have to select peak or off-peak, @davews had a railcard, this would take longer.
A website is much longer starting with logging in and after adding ticket to basket entering payment card details followed by security e.g. text code to phone.

Indeed, that is what I wanted to say. Most of my day walking trips up to London are decided on the day. I may have planned my walking route and how I am going to get there on the train but the actual decision is made that morning depending on weather and whether my train is actually running, I have been known to decide not to go during the five minute walk to the station when it starts raining. Instantaneous ticket from a ticket office suits that fine. Buying online to collect at the TVM needs time (not sure how long, they used to say leave a couple of hours for the ticket to be there) - and longer to go through the rigmorole at the TVM. I have never used anything on my mobile phone and 'being an old fuddy' have no desire to go that route. And I certainly can't read my mobile phone in sunlight.

 

[yorksrob]

It's nice to see the Government with a certain amount of egg over its face over this.

 

[Turtle]

Indeed, that is what I wanted to say. Most of my day walking trips up to London are decided on the day. I may have planned my walking route and how I am going to get there on the train but the actual decision is made that morning depending on weather and whether my train is actually running, I have been known to decide not to go during the five minute walk to the station when it starts raining. Instantaneous ticket from a ticket office suits that fine. Buying online to collect at the TVM needs time (not sure how long, they used to say leave a couple of hours for the ticket to be there) - and longer to go through the rigmorole at the TVM. I have never used anything on my mobile phone and 'being an old fuddy' have no desire to go that route. And I certainly can't read my mobile phone in sunlight.

Good points very well made.

 

[MikeWM]

Are you trying to search for e.g. Ely to Cambridge+Bus? That doesn't work. You have to set the origin and destination to the same train station, one of them with the +Bus variant, e.g. Cambridge to Cambridge+Bus: https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=CBG&dest=J096&period=20230703

Ah, yes, that's the issue Working fine when I do that.

I probably should have guessed that, given that's how the ticket is printed. Thanks for clearing my mental block!

 

[nr758123]

Quite. Opposing ticket office closures is not the stuff leadership bids are made of. It is however the stuff a constituency MP would worry about making sure that their next leaflet/newsletter/Facebook Post can say:

"I tried to stop the nasty train companies closing our local ticket offices*

*Please ignore that as chancellor my department was one of the major driving forces behind the closure. "

Conservative MP supports government policy whilst opposing its local effects.

Nothing new about that.

 

[bleeder4]

It would be interesting at some point to see ticket office usage during this last month since the consultation was announced. At Worcester Foregate St and Worcestershire Parkway, there has been a queue of around 4 or 5 people at the ticket office in the half dozen times I've been there. Prior to this month, I have never seen a queue of any more than 1 or 2 people, and that was very rarely. I would be curious to know if this behaviour is being reproduced nationally.

 

[Krokodil]

Conservative MP supports government policy whilst opposing its local effects.

Nothing new about that.

Anyone remember the Yes, Minister episode where Hacker was made "Transport Supremo"? He managed to kill off the plan by highlighting the effects upon the PM's constituency and leaking it to the press.

 

[py_megapixel]

It would be interesting at some point to see ticket office usage during this last month since the consultation was announced. At Worcester Foregate St and Worcestershire Parkway, there has been a queue of around 4 or 5 people at the ticket office in the half dozen times I've been there. Prior to this month, I have never seen a queue of any more than 1 or 2 people, and that was very rarely. I would be curious to know if this behaviour is being reproduced nationally.

That's interesting - I'd have thought ticket office usage would increase as a result of such proposals, as people who support the principle of ticket offices, but are used to buying online, start supporting their local ticket office again.

Edit: I misread your post as suggesting that there had been queues of 4 or 5 people in the past and you now saw only 1 or 2. Having read it again I understand you now meant the opposite, which is in line with what I'd have thought would happen.

 

[MikeWM]

It would be interesting at some point to see ticket office usage during this last month since the consultation was announced. At Worcester Foregate St and Worcestershire Parkway, there has been a queue of around 4 or 5 people at the ticket office in the half dozen times I've been there. Prior to this month, I have never seen a queue of any more than 1 or 2 people, and that was very rarely. I would be curious to know if this behaviour is being reproduced nationally.

Ely appears to be broadly similar to before, usually having a queue at the ticket office when it is open. It really shouldn't be on the closure list.

Cambridge ticket office is *always* busy, but at least that one isn't going to close (yet).

It would certainly be interesting to see a breakdown of ticket office/TVM/etc. and card/cash/etc. transactions for my local stations. Have GA produced the same level of detail as we've seen from GWR and Northern?

 

[Krokodil]

It would certainly be interesting to see a breakdown of ticket office/TVM/etc. and card/cash/etc. transactions for my local stations. Have GA produced the same level of detail as we've seen from GWR and Northern?

I've seem the GWR document but haven't seen anything from Northern that goes into the sales figures.

 

[Killingworth]

I've seem the GWR document but haven't seen anything from Northern that goes into the sales figures.

Is this what you're looking for? Changes to NTL Ticket Retailing July 23

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2023-07/Station Reform 120723.pdf

It's a pity they haven't produced the figures for all the currently unstaffed stations for comparison, but assume that would have been too much work.

 

[Mabs]

Or the staff could always be at the TVM, helping customers with their purchases. Perhaps the customer could tell the member of staff what they want and the staff could enter the details and sell the ticket.

The TVM interface could be redesigned to be more efficient for staff with appropriate training.

Of course, it would be desirable to provide a building at stations with somewhere for the staff to sit down and somewhere for customers to stand while being served, probably with some sort of counter type arrangement.

Hmmm....

I spoke to my manager yesterday. There will be nowhere to sit, no heater or shade. Just directly under the sun/cloud sky.

During your 30 minutes break you may use the mess room if you like.

I don't like the sound of that. I'm gonna make a run and never look back.

 

[Krokodil]

Is this what you're looking for? Changes to NTL Ticket Retailing July 23

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2023-07/Station Reform 120723.pdf

It's a pity they haven't produced the figures for all the currently unstaffed stations for comparison, but assume that would have been too much work.

Thanks. Interesting to see that despite the consultation document quoting the 12% national figure, the document you linked says 16% for Northern. Picking and choosing statistics to suit an agenda, well I never...

 

[geoffk]

A point I've not seen mentioned is that some ticket offices are actually inside the gateline. Rochdale and Blackburn come to mind. Are there others? This must have an impact on usage of the ticket office, particularly for enquiries as the gateline staff are unlikely to have the right training.

 

[Krokodil]

I don't like the sound of that. I'm gonna make a run and never look back.

Which is exactly the plan, it's cheaper than paying redundancy.

 

[tomuk]

Indeed, that is what I wanted to say. Most of my day walking trips up to London are decided on the day. I may have planned my walking route and how I am going to get there on the train but the actual decision is made that morning depending on weather and whether my train is actually running, I have been known to decide not to go during the five minute walk to the station when it starts raining. Instantaneous ticket from a ticket office suits that fine. Buying online to collect at the TVM needs time (not sure how long, they used to say leave a couple of hours for the ticket to be there) - and longer to go through the rigmorole at the TVM. I have never used anything on my mobile phone and 'being an old fuddy' have no desire to go that route. And I certainly can't read my mobile phone in sunlight.

What will you do when they shortly extend contactless to Bracknell\Martin Heron?

 

[Mabs]

Which is exactly the plan, it's cheaper than paying redundancy.

I forgot to mention il stick around until I'm paid then run.

 

[tomuk]

I've seem the GWR document but haven't seen anything from Northern that goes into the sales figures.

Here is the link to the Northern version. Very similar format to the GWR one.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/sites/default/files/2023-07/Retailing%20Summary%20Document.pdf

 

[py_megapixel]

I spoke to my manager yesterday. There will be nowhere to sit, no heater or shade. Just directly under the sun/cloud sky.

During your 30 minutes break you may use the mess room if you like.

I don't like the sound of that. I'm gonna make a run and never look back.

Yes - the point of my previous post is that if you want staff to be assisting customers at TVMs then it would surely be a good idea to make some modifications to the working environment to make that more efficient and more comfortable for staff - and if you do that, you end up with something that looks suspiciously like a ticket office. In other words, there's a reason ticket offices exist!

I don't blame you for not wanting to transfer to the new role. I can't imagine many people want a job where they spend several hours standing around on an unsheltered platform. If these proposals go ahead I imagine a some stations will be left completely unstaffed, with the excuse from the TOCs being "We can't get anyone to fill the Journey Maker position".

I wonder what will happen to the actual ticket office buildings. Presumably either left derelict or converted to retail space. In lots of places the chance of actually getting someone who wants to rent the retail space would be small, so the best thing would probably be conversion to a waiting room with appropriate vandal resistance to be left open when the station is unstaffed, but I can't imagine that happening under the current "screw the passengers" attitude of this government.

 

[urbophile]

Ah, yes, that's the issue Working fine when I do that.

I probably should have guessed that, given that's how the ticket is printed. Thanks for clearing my mental block!

But it's not exactly intuitive. How would anybody know that?

 

[infobleep]

Some stations will be destaffed completely, others will gradually have the "journeymaker" floor walkers run down

Where is the document outlining this or is it speculation?

 

[Krokodil]

Where is the document outlining this or is it speculation?

Well the Northern documents have stated that journeymakers will in most cases be available for only 2 hours per day (or per week in some locations). That much has been confirmed. The rest will logically follow once it is obvious that having someone turn up for a couple of hours is pointless.

 

[Killingworth]

Well the Northern documents have stated that journeymakers will in most cases be available for only 2 hours per day (or per week in some locations). That much has been confirmed. The rest will logically follow once it is often that having someone turn up for a couple of hours is pointless.

That has been the pattern for bank closures. Reduced opeming ours; reduced numbe of opening days, each cut explained by lower use. Chicken and egg. Reduce availability and we find other ways to do what we need.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I have not had time to read the whole thread, so apologies if the following either repeats others or has been answered.

I wonder if the idea is put such a drastic series of cuts forward and then row back a bit later. Having said they will close 95% (or whatever) of offices, they then say that they have listened to the users and will only close 90%. Everybody (except the passengers) will then claim the railway is responsive and reacting to the passengers’ wishes.

On the Isle of Wight they are going to close both ticket offices, but for a period (length unspecified) there will be staff floating about, described as an ‘interim full retail capability’. I find the idea of trying to buy a ticket off someone on the concourse at Ryde in a north-easterly gale a less than appetising prospect.

In typical Isle of Wight fashion, they only opened the new ticket office at Ryde a few weeks ago.

Frustration over new train ticket office closure plan after £10 million upgrade

The Isle of Wight Council's member for transport has expressed his frustration over the potential close of Ryde Esplanade's new train ticket office.

uk.news.yahoo.com

The Isle of Wight’s cabinet member for transport has expressed his frustration following the announcement that Ryde’s new train ticket office, included in the £10 million Interchange upgrade, could close as part of proposed plans. It was confirmed on Thursday (July 6) that South Western Railway (SWR) plan to shut all ticket offices across its network, including at Island Line’s Ryde Esplanade and Shanklin stations. Ryde Esplanade’s ticket office has only recently opened after a major Ryde Interchange scheme aimed at ‘providing better travel connectivity and a much-improved public space’ in the town.
The scheme has cost £10 million and has been primarily funded by a Government grant, with the new ticket office included in that figure.
The new Ryde Esplanade Station ticket office is complete and opened currently.
Cllr Phil Jordan, IW Council’s cabinet member for transport and infrastructure, highways PFI and transport strategy, said: “I am deeply saddened and upset at this latest approach to running services on our Island by SWR. It was nearly two years ago we questioned the requirements for a ticket office, and on being assured that it had to be provided in the upgraded station, we undertook to design the ticket office in the overall scheme. To hear now it is no longer required and so soon after opening is more than frustrating.”

 

[Gloster]

Frustration over new train ticket office closure plan after £10 million upgrade

The Isle of Wight Council's member for transport has expressed his frustration over the potential close of Ryde Esplanade's new train ticket office.

uk.news.yahoo.com

The Isle of Wight’s cabinet member for transport has expressed his frustration following the announcement that Ryde’s new train ticket office, included in the £10 million Interchange upgrade, could close as part of proposed plans. It was confirmed on Thursday (July 6) that South Western Railway (SWR) plan to shut all ticket offices across its network, including at Island Line’s Ryde Esplanade and Shanklin stations. Ryde Esplanade’s ticket office has only recently opened after a major Ryde Interchange scheme aimed at ‘providing better travel connectivity and a much-improved public space’ in the town.
The scheme has cost £10 million and has been primarily funded by a Government grant, with the new ticket office included in that figure.
The new Ryde Esplanade Station ticket office is complete and opened currently.
Cllr Phil Jordan, IW Council’s cabinet member for transport and infrastructure, highways PFI and transport strategy, said: “I am deeply saddened and upset at this latest approach to running services on our Island by SWR. It was nearly two years ago we questioned the requirements for a ticket office, and on being assured that it had to be provided in the upgraded station, we undertook to design the ticket office in the overall scheme. To hear now it is no longer required and so soon after opening is more than frustrating.”

I trust that he is using ‘requirements’ correctly, i.e. they were asking what equipment and facilities were needed in the new ticket office and does not mean that two years ago they were wondering/hoping if the ticket office should or would be closed. I do not expect much from the local council: few of them seem to have much interest in the railway except as an occasional photo opportunity.

 

[ainsworth74]

Small piece of housekeeping, I've added copies of consultation documents to new posts #2 and #3 on this thread. Mostly for posterity as I have no confidence that it will be easy to find these documents once the consultation concludes and felt it might be helpful to have them to refer back to in the future from time to time!

 

[jon0844]

I trust that he is using ‘requirements’ correctly, i.e. they were asking what equipment and facilities were needed in the new ticket office and does not mean that two years ago they were wondering/hoping if the ticket office should or would be closed. I do not expect much from the local council: few of them seem to have much interest in the railway except as an occasional photo opportunity.

I read it as meaning that if they'd known it was going to close, they wouldn't have built it - and only built it because they were told they had to have one.

Sadly, that doesn't mean they're going to necessarily fight to keep it.

 

[LUYMun]

To some people who suggest that ticket office closures would lead to uncertainty among passengers over purchasing fares, and that some may feel unsafe in certain situations. A few stations along my local line have Gateline Assistants at most times of the week, who would be prepared to answer enquiries by the public. Surely the roles of safety and monitoring could be delegated to these staff members, given that the closure of ticket offices does not necessarily mean destaffing of those stations affected?

 

[Geeves]

A point I've not seen mentioned is that some ticket offices are actually inside the gateline. Rochdale and Blackburn come to mind. Are there others? This must have an impact on usage of the ticket office, particularly for enquiries as the gateline staff are unlikely to have the right training.

The ticket machines at Rochdale and Blackburn only take cards and the majority of people are still paying cash, they have to be waved through. Its still busy upstairs as the numbers show

132 thousand tickets from the office vs 52 thousand for the TVMs at Rochdale and Blackburn is 99 thousand at the office vs 47 at the machine

 

[weeklycommuter]

I read it as meaning that if they'd known it was going to close, they wouldn't have built it - and only built it because they were told they had to have one.

Sadly, that doesn't mean they're going to necessarily fight to keep it.

SWR has declared Ryde Esplanade one of the 24 category one stations and states
"At category 1 stations, there will be multiple South Western Railway colleagues available to help customers every day of the week."
"At these stations, customers will be able to buy standard walk up tickets, all season tickets, warrants and rail vouchers, buy and replace Railcards,
and get ticket refunds. Category 1 stations will have interim additional retailing facilities that will be able to provide the ticket types that customers
are unable to purchase online or via ticket vending machines."
I have visited Ryde Esplanade Station this month and I cannot see how SWR can provide this service anywhere at this station except in the room which has just been built as a ticket office with two ticket windows. They may as well keep this ticket office open so the staff can use the space behind the ticket windows and provide the service through the ticket windows as they do now. Southern Vectis has a travel shop in the same building selling bus tickets and providing information and printed bus timetables.