Future of Ticket Office Consultations launched

[Gloster]

I have not had time to read the whole thread, so apologies if the following either repeats others or has been answered.

I wonder if the idea is put such a drastic series of cuts forward and then row back a bit later. Having said they will close 95% (or whatever) of offices, they then say that they have listened to the users and will only close 90%. Everybody (except the passengers) will then claim the railway is responsive and reacting to the passengers’ wishes.

On the Isle of Wight they are going to close both ticket offices, but for a period (length unspecified) there will be staff floating about, described as an ‘interim full retail capability’. I find the idea of trying to buy a ticket off someone on the concourse at Ryde in a north-easterly gale a less than appetising prospect.

In typical Isle of Wight fashion, they only opened the new ticket office at Ryde a few weeks ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not really sure Island Line patrons can complain. The service is so incredibly uneconomic that having it at all is a bonus.

Ticketing is so simple everyone should really be able to cope with TVMs or if not then pay the guard. As there's no intention to go DOO on these services, it's probably best for everyone to even bin the TVMs off and just go fully Paytrain. That way nobody gets away without paying (rural guards tend to be rather good at getting everyone - they always were on North West Pacer services, even busy ones) and it's more convenient because there's no need to turn up at the station an arbitrary amount of time before departure, just turn up for departure and pay on board.

 

[12LDA28C]

Yes - that's exactly it. Unless the 10% who want a much more costly service to be maintained for their convenience are prepared to cover the additional cost of it.

Try paying in any high street store with a cheque now - virtually none will accept it.

Again, plenty of examples given on this thread of stations that sell 30 or 40% of their tickets at the ticket office. And exactly how 'costly' is it to keep ticket offices open? No reduction in staff numbers is being proposed (allegedly) unless it's a thinly-veiled way of imposing redundancies somewhere down the line, which is entirely possible of course.

 

[156421]

Hello from Sweden, population, 10.42 million, 15,000km of railway... and zero staffed ticket offices. Soon, all of SJ's remaining ticket machines will also be gone, since most tickets are bought on the web or by smartphone app.

...and once again a thread has descended into "name random country and describe how everything there is better than here, and also anywhere other than here automatically is the land of milk and honey".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, plenty of examples given on this thread of stations that sell 30 or 40% of their tickets at the ticket office. And exactly how 'costly' is it to keep ticket offices open? No reduction in staff numbers is being proposed (allegedly) unless it's a thinly-veiled way of imposing redundancies somewhere down the line, which is entirely possible of course.

While this didn't happen with Southern OBSs, I'd expect a recruitment freeze and a slow diminishing of these staff as they retire or leave without replacement. Ticketing isn't going to move away from online - more people are going to move towards that.

It's now common for instance for car parks to be RingGo only, which requires possessing a phone and payment card at a minimum (there's a phone number to call so a dumbphone is OK). And I'd suggest far more poorer people use car parks than long distance trains.

 

[A0]

...and once again a thread has descended into "name random country and describe how everything there is better than here, and also anywhere other than here automatically is the land of milk and honey".

I don't think that's a fair comment - it's perfectly reasonable to give an example of a country which has already made such a move. Particularly where the country in question is often held up by those who demand "high quality public services" as the template they'd like the UK to follow.

 

[MattRat]

Totally agree. Rail ticketing is a minefield of complexity. I think every time they try to simplify it they just add more on and don't remove any of the previous options that have been superseded.

I'm probably butchering this, but what seems to happen is, say you have 4 standards, and someone wants to simplify everything so creates their own standard that they tell everyone to follow. Now you have 5 standards.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Will WHSmith or Costa decide to go into ticket retailing?! Or should I!?!?

If it wasn't so horribly complex there'd be a case for PayPoint/PayZone doing it. That's open up every single corner shop (pretty much) as a booking office.

Northern seem to be heading that way

 

[DMckduck]

Likelihood of ticket office staff being replaced with more cardboard cutouts with an addeco rail/ontrak high vis on them?

 

[Russel]

I don't have an issue with ticket office closures, the staff should be on the concourse assisting passengers, rather than sitting behind a sheet of glass doing a crossword, as per the LU approach.

The issue with the UK rail network is there is very little appetite to change anything, the way things were done 50 years ago is perhaps not the way things should be done now, ticket offices and guards faffing around with doors are just two examples...

 

[12LDA28C]

It's now common for instance for car parks to be RingGo only, which requires possessing a phone and payment card at a minimum (there's a phone number to call so a dumbphone is OK). And I'd suggest far more poorer people use car parks than long distance trains.

Which is hardly convenient when you turn up at an unfamiliar location to park before catching a train. Instead of just paying for car parking quickly with cash or card and heading to the platform, you have to use your smartphone to go on the App store, download an app and then navigate around it, all before your train arrives. Isn't technology wonderful.

 

[duncanp]

Northern seem to be heading that way

What about the bit down the bottom of that attachment which says

"..customers who can only pay with cash and do not have access to a ticket office should obtain a Promise to Pay from a ticket machine,.."

How is a customer then supposed to get a ticket when they arrive at their destination, given that it is unlikely that the destination station will have a ticket office, and/or the "..journey makers,," will not be able to accept cash?

Methinks there is a perfect opportunity for a bit of fare evasion here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is hardly convenient when you turn up at an unfamiliar location to park before catching a train. Instead of just paying for car parking quickly with cash or card and heading to the platform, you have to use your smartphone to go on the App store, download an app and then navigate around it, all before your train arrives. Isn't technology wonderful.

There are only a few common parking apps, maybe 4. Most people who drive a lot will have them all installed by now. RingGo is by far the most common.

For a railway station I'd always research how it works first anyway. What, after all, if it's coins only and £9? I'd have to go out of my way to obtain that, even when I did frequently use cash I didn't keep a lot of change as it's heavy, I'd spend it.

 

[A0]

Which is hardly convenient when you turn up at an unfamiliar location to park before catching a train. Instead of just paying for car parking quickly with cash or card and heading to the platform, you have to use your smartphone to go on the App store, download an app and then navigate around it, all before your train arrives. Isn't technology wonderful.

Or if it's an unfamiliar location, surely you'd investigate where you're going the day before and potentially even pay for your parking online ahead of arriving at the car park ?

 

[MikeWM]

Which is hardly convenient when you turn up at an unfamiliar location to park before catching a train. Instead of just paying for car parking quickly with cash or card and heading to the platform, you have to use your smartphone to go on the App store, download an app and then navigate around it, all before your train arrives. Isn't technology wonderful.

'Progress'. Otherwise known as shifting the cost and the liability from the provider to the customer, while excluding some people who don't have the relevant tech entirely - but who cares about those?

--

What about the bit down the bottom of that attachment which says

I note it also says 'can only pay in cash', not 'prefer to pay in cash' as per the current NRCoT. Creep, creep.

 

[Spamcan81]

Or if it's an unfamiliar location, surely you'd investigate where you're going the day before and potentially even pay for your parking online ahead of arriving at the car park ?

What? Investigate the car parking before you go is nonsense. Why make things more difficult when it would be much easier to have the parking ticket macing accept card? A universal system that doesn't need apps or phone calls.

 

[bramling]

Or if it's an unfamiliar location, surely you'd investigate where you're going the day before and potentially even pay for your parking online ahead of arriving at the car park ?

This vision of life sounds really wonderful. It’s bad enough having had to pre-book attractions down to the minute during Covid, let alone having to do the same for stuff like parking. Notwithstanding that all this puts a massive amount of power in the hands of institutions like Apple.

I don’t mind paying for parking by card (though this can cause problems when something goes wrong with the system for whatever reason), but doing it through an app is just making things more complex than necessary.

 

[12LDA28C]

Or if it's an unfamiliar location, surely you'd investigate where you're going the day before and potentially even pay for your parking online ahead of arriving at the car park ?

Because I'd expect to be able to pay for parking using cash or card. Also, certain car parks can get full quite quickly these days. Imagine paying online the day before for parking and then you turn up and can't get a space? If we are at the stage when you have to spend valuable time 'researching' parking options in advance I would question how much 'more convenient' that is than just turning up and paying at a machine.

 

[Edsmith]

I don't think that's a fair comment - it's perfectly reasonable to give an example of a country which has already made such a move. Particularly where the country in question is often held up by those who demand "high quality public services" as the template they'd like the UK to follow.

I agree completely, some comparison needs to be made with other countries and certainly in my experience of travelling in Europe there noticeably fewer station staff than here in the UK.

 

[A0]

'Progress'. Otherwise known as shifting the cost and the liability from the provider to the customer, while excluding some people who don't have the relevant tech entirely - but who cares about those?

The majority of *all* age groups now have Smart Phones https://www.statista.com/statistics/300402/smartphone-usage-in-the-uk-by-age/

And that will increase as the 55-64 age group get older, as they won't stop using their smartphones as they get older.

Out of interest at what point do you say it's OK to discontinue something due to low usage ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What? Investigate the car parking before you go is nonsense.

I've literally always done that, even back in the day when everything was cash only and you'd have to phone the TOC to find out. If for instance it's coins only and you don't have enough coins you'd be stuffed and miss your train having to drive somewhere and break a note. And yes, that was the case even recently at a good many stations.

Some people did I suppose keep a big bag of change, but then that's vulnerable to getting nicked, and station car parks have never been cheap.

 

[12LDA28C]

What? Investigate the car parking before you go is nonsense. Why make things more difficult when it would be much easier to have the parking ticket macing accept card? A universal system that doesn't need apps or phone calls.

Exactly.

 

[Mamorin]

So Hadfeild keeps its ticket office, but my local station (which has a use figure extremely close to Hadfeild) loses its ticket office.

Such a shame to see the ticket office at my station go, staff have always been super helpful.

 

[156421]

What about the bit down the bottom of that attachment which says



How is a customer then supposed to get a ticket when they arrive at their destination, given that it is unlikely that the destination station will have a ticket office, and/or the "..journey makers,," will not be able to accept cash?

Methinks there is a perfect opportunity for a bit of fare evasion here.

Don't forget that at Whitehaven which has a ticket office, when the ticket office is closed, the TVMs don't have a "promise to pay" printout option, despite the ticket office being closed. Very poor form from Northern.

 

[A0]

What? Investigate the car parking before you go is nonsense. Why make things more difficult when it would be much easier to have the parking ticket macing accept card? A universal system that doesn't need apps or phone calls.

If you're going to somewhere "unfamiliar" which was the case cited, wouldn't you check out the parking options on line before setting out ? I would.

And if there's an option to pay for the parking whilst I'm doing that, why wouldn't I ? Then it's all done - all I need to do is park and walk to the station.

 

[Titfield]

I don't have an issue with ticket office closures, the staff should be on the concourse assisting passengers, rather than sitting behind a sheet of glass doing a crossword, as per the LU approach.

The issue with the UK rail network is there is very little appetite to change anything, the way things were done 50 years ago is perhaps not the way things should be done now, ticket offices and guards faffing around with doors are just two examples...

I think there is appetite by the DoT, the TOCS and The Treasury. It is the trade unions who appear to resist every move unless their members are well compensated for any change and if they do not want to change they do not have to.

Those of us who work in non unionised environments seem to be subject to constant change and we just have to like it or lump it.

 

[sor]

Or if it's an unfamiliar location, surely you'd investigate where you're going the day before and potentially even pay for your parking online ahead of arriving at the car park ?

nothing says technological progress like having to pre-plan how long you think you might stay and rehearsing the payment process, lol.

(I am not a luddite in this regard, but I don't think car parking should have middlemen. If cash has to go, at least replace it with a machine capable of taking contactless payments, as some councils have done. Or make it free.)

 

[A0]

Because I'd expect to be able to pay for parking using cash or card. Also, certain car parks can get full quite quickly these days. Imagine paying online the day before for parking and then you turn up and can't get a space? If we are at the stage when you have to spend valuable time 'researching' parking options in advance I would question how much 'more convenient' that is than just turning up and paying at a machine.

Well in that case it's simple - go on the app and request a refund. What do you do if you turn up and there isn't a space now ? You'd have to go and seek out an alternative car park - so surely you'd do your research on line the day before rather than randomly driving around an unfamiliar town looking for somewhere else to park.

 

[pdeaves]

I haven't read the whole of this thread, so sorry if this has come up before.

I see the thing about roving staff. It will be up to the customer to find them. At busy places (say, Birmingham New Street), how does one know where to look? Once found, the chances are it will be a busy, noisy environment, which can be a very stressful way to carry out transactions. It might be worthwhile putting (some of) said staff in a consistent place. Put it out of the way where it's a bit quieter. Provide the staff with seats so they don't have to stand all day long. Call it, I dunno, a ticket office or something!

Slightly, but not entirely, tongue in cheek. I count amongst those daunted by the changes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

nothing says technological progress like having to pre-plan how long you think you might stay and rehearsing the payment process, lol.

Railway station parking is charged by the day. The number of people who don't know how many days they're travelling for is small, and RingGo actually makes it easier for those who don't as they can extend the number of days without being physically there. Unless your partner pops down with the keys, you cannot extend a cash paid parking session at all without going back to the car.