Future of Operational Steam Locomotives

[Wyrleybart]

The odd thing about the Festiniog is, I understand, that when they went from oil back to coal around 2006 after 30+ years all of the oil-burning equipment (tanks, valves, burners, pan plates, etc.) removed from the locos was not retained for future use. If they go down this road they will, I believe, be starting again from scscratch.

I was a teenager in the 1970s and remember the oil firing conversions on the FR. I believe they had a lorry which went around various locations mostly in England, collecting waste oil to ship to Boston Lodge presumably for mixing / filtering. Back then the Festiniog absolutely had to go down the oil firing route to be allowed to survive, due to running through such flammable territory on their way to Dduallt. For me though oil firing took away much of the character of the railway. Gone was the sulphur smell of coal burning steam locos, as well as the roar from the firebox bedplate replacing the traditional hisses of Steam locos.

 

[railfan99]

Most of the spark problem is not from the chimney, it's from the ashpan. Most, if not all, locos in Britain have retained their original pattern ashpans (noting that early Bulleid locos have a later design to fall back on). Some have water fed to the ashes to cool them, but nothing radical. I read on the Puffing Billy website a few years descriptions of their ashpans - hopper emptying, drenching water, and air intake through airboxes which would force a ember to fly uphill against the airflow to escape. Given Australia's understandable concern about wildfires I assume that they are an answer.
Pat

Puffing Billy usually has a fire patrol (in a special rail self-propelled vehicle) follow the train on hot and dry days that may not reach the "catastrophic" threshold of a Total Fire Ban.

Minor point: in Oz we call them bushfires, reflecting the Australian bush.

 

[Poolie]

It always intrigues me as to what happened in the past. In the late 50's early 60's I was out every summer Saturday spotting in glorious sun shining all day weather. I guess lineside fires must have occurred, but I don't recall any incidents at Northwick Park/South Kenton. The only sources of information elsewhere around the country would be Railway Magazine, Railway World etc. I'll have to dig them out and see if it was a major problem back then.

 

[JKF]

Wouldn't be too keen on shovelling that into the firebox!

As any Boy Scout will know, dried out cowpats actually burn quite well (since they are mostly compacted dry grass), though I suspect they might not have the calorific value to raise steam!

 

[52290]

It always intrigues me as to what happened in the past. In the late 50's early 60's I was out every summer Saturday spotting in glorious sun shining all day weather. I guess lineside fires must have occurred, but I don't recall any incidents at Northwick Park/South Kenton. The only sources of information elsewhere around the country would be Railway Magazine, Railway World etc. I'll have to dig them out and see if it was a major problem back then.

I did the same on the WCML between Leyland and Preston. I do recall the track gangs themselves setting fire to the embankments in the early summer. These controlled fires prevented unexpected ones later on.

 

[JKF]

It always intrigues me as to what happened in the past. In the late 50's early 60's I was out every summer Saturday spotting in glorious sun shining all day weather. I guess lineside fires must have occurred, but I don't recall any incidents at Northwick Park/South Kenton. The only sources of information elsewhere around the country would be Railway Magazine, Railway World etc. I'll have to dig them out and see if it was a major problem back then.

Back then they used to maintain vegetation, look at old photos and it almost looks like a mown lawn on some of the embankments and cuttings. Small fires were frequent but would burn off small areas of vegetation such that larger fires wouldn’t take hold during very dry periods as there wasn’t enough left to cause an uncontrolled big fire.

 

[Calthrop]

As any Boy Scout will know, dried out cowpats actually burn quite well (since they are mostly compacted dry grass), though I suspect they might not have the calorific value to raise steam!

There was a narrow-gauge mineral line in the Andes whose regular-everyday loco fuel, was reputedly a mixture of dried moss and dried llama dung.

 

[Tetragon213]

As any Boy Scout will know, dried out cowpats actually burn quite well (since they are mostly compacted dry grass), though I suspect they might not have the calorific value to raise steam!

There was a narrow-gauge mineral line in the Andes whose regular-everyday loco fuel, was reputedly a mixture of dried moss and dried llama dung.

Christ, I can only imagine the smell!

 

[Flying Phil]

Back then they used to maintain vegetation, look at old photos and it almost looks like a mown lawn on some of the embankments and cuttings. Small fires were frequent but would burn off small areas of vegetation such that larger fires wouldn’t take hold during very dry periods as there wasn’t enough left to cause an uncontrolled big fire.

Another factor might be that BR was running every day on most lines and so there would not have been so much dry vegetation, as there would have been more frequent, much smaller localised fires. Many heritage lines only run at weekends and not at all for some winter months -apart from Santa Specials!

 

[MikeFromLFE]

It always intrigues me as to what happened in the past. In the late 50's early 60's I was out every summer Saturday spotting in glorious sun shining all day weather. I guess lineside fires must have occurred, but I don't recall any incidents at Northwick Park/South Kenton. The only sources of information elsewhere around the country would be Railway Magazine, Railway World etc. I'll have to dig them out and see if it was a major problem back then.

It's not in the same league but I distinctly remember a lineside fire at the back of my grandmother's crossing keeper's cottage on the Leighton Buzzard - Dunstable branch. I seem to recall it wasn't an uncommon thing - there was a heck of a gradient up to the WCML from about that point, so maybe that was the reason that sparks flew.
I can't even guess at a date, but I remember that I thought my gran was mad suggesting I beat it out with a shovel, when there was plenty of water to put it out. I got soaked, the fire burned on!
This was a field behind the house opposite Ledburn Crossing in the direction of Wing Crossing, my grandmother (and grandfather before her) was the crossing keeper.

 

[MarkyT]

Increases in atmospheric CO2 have boosted plant growth and leaf area. The difference in cover shown in photos from the 1950 compared to today is not only down to different railway maintenance practices and the effects of regular steam passing. There is simply more vegetation today, growing faster. This is not a benefit for rail, with fast growth affecting sighting and adhesion etc. Accelerated plant growth also uses up nutrients and water in the soil more quickly, which could contribute to earthworks drying out and becoming unstable, especially with the root networks breaking up the soil as they search for water.

 

[michaelh]

Puffing Billy usually has a fire patrol (in a special rail self-propelled vehicle) follow the train on hot and dry days that may not reach the "catastrophic" threshold of a Total Fire Ban.

Minor point: in Oz we call them bushfires, reflecting the Australian bush.

In 1976 on the Talyllyn Railway we had a trolley following the steam trains in case of lineside fires. There was even a special bell code for it. Most of the fires were in between the rails due to cinders falling from the ashpans.

 

[JKF]

Increases in atmospheric CO2 have boosted plant growth and leaf area. The difference in cover shown in photos from the 1950 compared to today is not only down to different railway maintenance practices and the effects of regular steam passing. There is simply more vegetation today, growing faster. This is not a benefit for rail, with fast growth affecting sighting and adhesion etc. Accelerated plant growth also uses up nutrients and water in the soil more quickly, which could contribute to earthworks drying out and becoming unstable, especially with the root networks breaking up the soil as they search for water.

Weed growth has been incredible this year. I’m a site manager and returned from a three-week holiday earlier this week to find a 70cm tomato plant growing out of one of the car park drains that wasn’t there when I left! Plus loads of general weeds everywhere. Some of the smaller trees have shot up this year and fruit trees have been extremely productive. I can only hope the carbon sequested does a little to help the crisis we’re facing.

 

[railfan99]

In 1976 on the Talyllyn Railway we had a trolley following the steam trains in case of lineside fires. There was even a special bell code for it. Most of the fires were in between the rails due to cinders falling from the ashpans.

How many rain-free days and/or at what temeprature (i.e. 32 degrees Celsius) does it typically take for ideal conditions for lineside fires in the UK?