Future of Island Line

[reddragon]

Smallbrook junction only serves as an interchange between the Island line and the steam railway. On a recent visit staff I spoke to were of the opinion that extention of the steam railway was not likely to happen for the foreseeable future. They were concerned with cost and H&S and other issues regarding operating a heritage line under a LRO alongside a line part of the national network without any physical seperation

Which line is the Heritage Railway again?

I am sure the IOWSR has the newest stock & laid track!

 

[HH]

The weight is a red herring a Class 483 is quoted as 55 tons, a 2 car D78 in LT form was about 56 tons - a transit engine doesn't weigh that much.

It's not so much the weight as to how that weight transfers onto the tracks. I don't know the characteristics of either class, but it could be an issue on the infrastructure in its current state.

 

[birchesgreen]

Which line is the Heritage Railway again?

I am sure the IOWSR has the newest stock & laid track!

Yes some of the IOWSR locos are younger than the 483s.

 

[fandroid]

Um last time I checked through ticketing is available on the SWT website via both Wightlink (Harbour - Ryde Pier Head) and Hovertravel (Southsea - Southsea Hoverport - Ryde Hoverport - Ryde Esplanade). You can also buy tickets to East and West Cowes (via Southampton Central and on with Red Funnel) and to Yarmouth (via Lymington Pier and cross with Wightlink).

Now unless the detail is going to offer something radical with fares/ticket types I'm bemused by this being a big announcement.

Interesting to see what they plan to do with the actual Island Line though.

Until a short while ago, I was a regular visitor to the IOW. What is said above is entirely true, there are plenty of through ticketing opportunities. Via Southampton, the ticket also allowed free travel on the connecting bus operated on behalf of Red Funnel. What was missing was through ticketing onto IOW buses. A PlusBus arrangement at Cowes, Ryde and Yarmouth would help encourage visits from the mainland. At West Cowes the bus service to Newport was very frequent and fairly quick. It seems daft to be able to set foot on the island there with a ticket from (Thurso?), but not get any further without handing over more cash. None of this helps the Island Line tho. It really does need a facelift. The trains are cranky rattly things and the 'welcome' stations at Ryde Pier and Esplanade are truly awful.

 

[Chris125]

If it's not going to close, it's going to need many millions invested in it. When i was on holiday over there a few years ago, you could feel how bumpy the ride was. Virtually all the track must be due for renewal

Mark Brinton's recent report goes into some depth about the track and ride quality (page 3+) - I've posted some excerpts below:

With regard to the track, this has been a source of general concern certainly all of my “railway life” and has to date never been adequately addressed. The cause as I understand it goes right back to when the lines were constructed in 1864.

The “ballast” used was shingle, originally it was dredged from Bembridge Harbour, but this was later not found adequate for the heavier locos so a change was made to quarried gravel from St. Georges Down.

In 1967 following electrification the first underground stock (Class 485) was introduced.... however after a few years the track staff noticed that issues were appearing at the rail joints which were being “hammered” and becoming dipped... due to the significant increase in un-sprung weight passing over the joints and a general increase in average speed due to the more rapid acceleration of the electric trains.

In the 1990s the Class 483 vehicles were introduced... however as soon as the vehicles arrived on the Island ride quality issues emerged and very quickly became an issue. It was established that this was due to the extensive use of second hand rail causing frequent and rapid lateral displacement of the wheels leading to a phenomena called “cyclic side wear”.

On the stock the bogies were modified to allow greater lateral movement [and] vehicle bounce hydraulic dampers (shock absorbers) were fitted to the bogies. The track engineers meanwhile started a programme of enhanced joint maintenance and also removing alternate joints by welding two rails together. Granite ballast would also be used in place of the gravel to support the joints.

Unfortunately no attention was given to the to the damaged formation, as this would require extensive work to be effective, and the use of granite ballast was considered to be an adequate “fix” at the time. These elements, at the time, whilst they improved the ride significantly, they were not considered the final answer to the problem.

What has happened since privatisation is that the experienced track engineers have retired or left the industry and most of the original documentation, reports, studies etc. lost. So with the advent of contractor style maintenance there is no knowledge or experience in local issues and their significance. This has allowed the track’s line and level to deteriorate due to there being a lack in investment in the necessary enhanced maintenance required.

In my experience the ride quality can vary quite a lot, it had been quite rough but my last journey was fine - perhaps it was the unit but they do bring a tamper over from time to time.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How long would the line need to shut for, to have (at some point) all ballast, sleepers and rail replaced (inc any works to the ground under the ballast)?

 

[LBSCR Times]

How long would the line need to shut for, to have (at some point) all ballast, sleepers and rail replaced (inc any works to the ground under the ballast)?

By tarmac for a cycle path......Not long!

 

[341o2]

Yes some of the IOWSR locos are younger than the 483s.

Indeed, the Ivatt in operation when I last visitied the steam railway was constructed in 1951 and was at one time a candidate for replacing the 02's

 

[Chester1]

I know its not politically viable but Isle of Wight would be a good place for a guided busway and bus priority system. Ryde to Wotton Bridge using a bus priority system and guided busway on the old trackbed from Wootton Bridge - Newport - West Cowes. The Island line could be converted from St Johns to Shanklin with bus priority through Ryde and some sort of people mover on Ryde pier. As a transport solution it would be cheaper and probably only slightly slower. Polticial suicide though!

 

[emil]

Considering the Cambridge busway costs nearly tripled from £64 million to £181 million I don't think it would represent value for money. Distance being 16 miles. Additionally more carparks along the route would need to built to make it feasible. Would the locals want this ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not convinced a *guided* busway would be sensible, but a dedicated bus-only road could well be a good idea. And proper bus priority around the Island.

 

[Chris125]

I'm not convinced a *guided* busway would be sensible, but a dedicated bus-only road could well be a good idea. And proper bus priority around the Island.

IMO it's a terrible idea - the 3 mile Gosport busway cost £20m! Ryde-Shanklin is 8 miles long and through much more difficult terrain with lengthy single line sections, high embankments and deep cuttings all to be brought up to a required standard for vehicles which can't even go up the pier.

Not only could you completely renew the railway for that kind of money, but extend it too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How did it cost that much to build a single carriageway road?!

 

[A0]

No you couldn't - Borders Rail cost about £10m / mile, so if you reckon you could renew the Island Line and extend it for £20m, you're way off the mark.

 

[Chris125]

No you couldn't - Borders Rail cost about £10m / mile, so if you reckon you could renew the Island Line and extend it for £20m, you're way off the mark.

£20m merely refers to the cost of the relatively simple 3-mile Gosport scheme - I think it's safe to assume rebuilding the 8 miles between Ryde and Shanklin in a similar manner would cost many times that figure.

 

[swt_passenger]

How did it cost that much to build a single carriageway road?!

There were at least a couple of relatively high cost items, the busway now crosses under a fairly busy road (Newgate Lane - B3385 towards Lee on Solent) that was previously a rail level crossing, so the embankment was regraded over quite a significant length, and a new bridge built; then another long section of rail embankment was removed a mile or so further south to provide a junction with the busway for buses to join or leave it at Wych Lane, formerly a single carriage low bridge, now a large crossroads.

I expect those two items together swamped the plain single carriageway road, but even then, a two track road on an embankment is probably a lot wider than the single track railway that was there beforehand, it was in a fairly heavily overgrown tree lined corridor.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Considering the Cambridge busway costs nearly tripled from £64 million to £181 million I don't think it would represent value for money. Distance being 16 miles. Additionally more carparks along the route would need to built to make it feasible. Would the locals want this ?

Albeit a much shorter distance, how did the actual Leigh Guided Busway cost per mile? I believe it has exceeded its original estimated passenger carrying capacity. There is a dedicated park and ride area in the Tyldesley area of this line.

 

[Chris125]

Albeit a much shorter distance, how did the actual Leigh Guided Busway cost per mile? I believe it has exceeded its original estimated passenger carrying capacity. There is a dedicated park and ride area in the Tyldesley area of this line.

Happy to be corrected but I read somewhere that the busway itself (5 miles-ish?) cost £68m.

 

[paul1609]

There were at least a couple of relatively high cost items, the busway now crosses under a fairly busy road (Newgate Lane - B3385 towards Lee on Solent) that was previously a rail level crossing, so the embankment was regraded over quite a significant length, and a new bridge built; then another long section of rail embankment was removed a mile or so further south to provide a junction with the busway for buses to join or leave it at Wych Lane, formerly a single carriage low bridge, now a large crossroads.

I expect those two items together swamped the plain single carriageway road, but even then, a two track road on an embankment is probably a lot wider than the single track railway that was there beforehand, it was in a fairly heavily overgrown tree lined corridor.

The Gosport branch was built as double track throughout and was only singled as an economy measure in 1934

 

[Chester1]

Happy to be corrected but I read somewhere that the busway itself (5 miles-ish?) cost £68m.

4.5 miles of guided busway, facilities and also alterations to the East Lancs road to replace a lane with a bus lane. It will be interesting to see its first years profit / loss because it originally looked like a failure but has since thrived.

 

[Chris125]

4.5 miles of guided busway, facilities and also alterations to the East Lancs road to replace a lane with a bus lane. It will be interesting to see its first years profit / loss because it originally looked like a failure but has since thrived.

If I understand this article correctly that sum refers only to that 4.5 mile section of guided busway; the entire scheme cost £122m.

"Transport for Greater Manchester says the guided section of the busway package has cost the public body £68 million"

 

[swt_passenger]

The Gosport branch was built as double track throughout and was only singled as an economy measure in 1934

But it wouldn't have been maintained as a full width embankment once it was singled. This has been a problem with some redoublings, where the embankments were reported to have deteriorated since singling, such as on the Chiltern route.

 

[fandroid]

The problem with any reinstatement of closed lines or even guided busways on the IOW is the inescapable fact that the closed lines did not go through much in the way of population, and the island is not exactly heavily populated anyway. The Ryde-Newport line avoids just about all settlements between the two towns. The Cowes branch was just as bad. Look instead at the roads that the direct buses currently use and you will see that they go where the people are. The Cowes -Newport bus service was excellent when I last used it and any attempt to shift it on to the old railway would be a total waste of money and give the public a worse service.

Any spend has to be on making the existing island line more attractive, and possibly on providing more buses in the summer on the routes that are worst affected by traffic.

 

[paul1609]

But it wouldn't have been maintained as a full width embankment once it was singled. This has been a problem with some redoublings, where the embankments were reported to have deteriorated since singling, such as on the Chiltern route.

I believe that the problem on the Chiltern Route was that the line had lost it Grandfather rights to operate as a double track railwayso when doubled had to meet the current specs including walking routes etc.