Future of 360s

[fgwrich]

Given as a temporary solution and to aid some sort of standardisation, could the rest of the GE 360 fleet move over to Old Oak (replaced in the form of some Bombardier product given the 379s and Bombardiers involvement in Ilford) and used in conjunction with the 332 Fleet on the Thames Valley Electrified services? (26 360s or 28 if the HEC fleet were reduced to 4 car but gained 2 new driving cabs + 14 332s for the fast services).

More a pie in the sky idea but it would at the very least temporarily or permenantly solve the Thames Valley services and give the 360s a home to which there used to. The GE services could then gain either 387s or 379s.

 

[jopsuk]

If you were after "standardisation" at Ilford, there's 23 321s and 5 322s at Northern, FCC and LM. If you had a shuffling, and possibly some 360>350 conversions, then combined with a more intensive refurb of the 321 fleet (full aircon and wifi included) there would an interesting option.

 

[swt_passenger]

... used in conjunction with the 332 Fleet on the Thames Valley Electrified services? (26 360s or 28 if the HEC fleet were reduced to 4 car but gained 2 new driving cabs + 14 332s for the fast services).

There are no firm plans to stop Heathrow Express though. That might happen, but well beyond the timescales in which the 360s become 'available'; it is never going to be less than 5 years later.

 

[Domh245]

Could they not be sent up north to operate the Manchester Airport to Liverpool Airport. They could be maintained at Ardwick, as I think they are fairly similar to the 350s that are also being maintained there and they are suited to Airport work. The only problem might be that there aren't enough of them for it to work the service fully, but I'm not too sure about how many trains are needed for this service

 

[edwin_m]

The article on Heathrow in the current Modern Railways says that HEX is confident they could sell off the 360s (and by implication doesn't have any further use for them after Crossrail). I'd have thought the most likely destination would be to cope with growth on GE, probably reduced to 4-car formations, but the post about Thailand is interesting.

 

[cjmillsnun]

On the basis that the Davies Commission recommends new runways at Heathrow some form of rail link will be needed- any new terminals will be some distance from the central T1/2/3. I doubt that Crossrail or HeX will go there so the 360 units will find a home as a shuttle service.

Why wouldn't HEX or Crossrail go there? Also why would a new terminal be needed, new taxiways would cover aeroplanes getting over to the new runway. T5 IIRC still has capacity for expansion (concourse D), and with redevelopment T1, T3 and T4 could have more capacity. T2 is about to come onstream again (June). So soon we are likely to have more terminal space than the current 2 runways could comfortably handle.

 

[jw]

Perhaps BAA will hang on to them and use them for western access services to Reading? Not sure what they'd be used for between Crossrail taking over HEx services and WRATH opening (planned for 2021) though.

 

[jopsuk]

Why wouldn't HEX or Crossrail go there? Also why would a new terminal be needed, new taxiways would cover aeroplanes getting over to the new runway. T5 IIRC still has capacity for expansion (concourse D), and with redevelopment T1, T3 and T4 could have more capacity. T2 is about to come onstream again (June). So soon we are likely to have more terminal space than the current 2 runways could comfortably handle.

There's also the potential to move the servicing hangers from between the runways to outside them, and build a new terminal there?

 

[L+Y]

I suspect BAA will want to hold onto them, but here's a thought...

How about using them as a dedicated fleet to shuttle back and forth along a short but busy corridor somewhere? Being from the North West, my immediate idea is to use them to run a regular stopping Bolton-MIA working on the hour, which would be ideal for the Manchester-Bolton commuter market. It means expresses don't get loaded up with Bolton commuters and you can have Blackpool and Barrow trains skip Bolton altogether at peak times, either by reinstating the through tracks at Bolton station or having them go via Atherton.

 

[jopsuk]

any shuttle service is better served using the units from a larger local fleet.

Presumably HC only wound up with with 360s because Siemens wouldn't build more 332s, as they were keen to introduce the Desiro?

 

[Wivenswold]

It would be political dynamite if GA lost its 360s even if they were replaced with fully refurbished 321s. It would mean that all of the GEML stock would be in excess of 25 years old (and that's at today's ages). Send em to GA. We were supposed to have 24 360s anyway before the DfT got involved and cut the order. Then all 26 could be refurbished and standardised.

 

[MCR247]

any shuttle service is better served using the units from a larger local fleet.

Presumably HC only wound up with with 360s because Siemens wouldn't build more 332s, as they were keen to introduce the Desiro?

I thought it was because they were cheaper since some of the carriages were already built as 350/0s?

 

[Fudgefrog]

Hypothetically, is there anything to stop Heathrow Holdings (formerly BAA) from leasing their 360s to another operator directly, as opposed to selling the units to a ROSCO? That would surely give them the advantage of still having the units to operate any future services they'd like (including HeX) without the units sitting dormant.

 

[jopsuk]

Hypthetically no, they could set up a micro ROSCO if they wanted to, but I supect that's a complication they'd rather avoid.

 

[Lockwood]

Did someone say micro fleet?

Sell them to SWT for the Lymington link!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Did someone say micro fleet?

Sell them to SWT for the Lymington link!

Not that old chestnut again!

Assuming they can be converted to DC, SWT might be the best place for them, albeit on the Windsor lines where 5/10-car will be standard. Think 5x5-car units would be overkill at Lymington (except when the IOW Festival is on!) though.

 

[Lockwood]

Oh yeah, I forgot they were AC.

Stick OHLE on the Lymington link, then put them on it!

 

[cjmillsnun]

There's also the potential to move the servicing hangers from between the runways to outside them, and build a new terminal there?

The tech blocks are already on the eastern perimeter (outside the runways). The central area is Terminals 1, 2, 3, the western end 5 and the southern perimeter 4 and the cargo centre.

Any new terminals will invariably be between the old runways and the new or on the outside of the new, and HEX would no doubt want to connect in as they did with T5.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Maybe HEX won't want to get rid of them after all... https://www.heathrowexpress.com/new...for-heathrow-reading-express-service-unveiled

 

[jopsuk]

Very much depends if 5x5 car is deemed sufficient to run whatever service level they intend- I'd guess it would mean the fleet would get a "HEX" interior like the one running the T4 shuttle?

 

[tbtc]

5x five coach EMUs?

On a franchise that already deals with similar Siemens trains?

Well, the Walsall - Birmingham - Wolverhampton service needs five units to maintain a half hourly service (journey time of just over an hour) - that would then free up an equivalent number of 323s/ 350s for strengthening other London Midland services.

Not as grand an ambition as some, admittedly, but I don't think the Walsall - Wolves services need doubled up 323s/350s?