Future Metrolink Expansion

[miami]

Closing those three stations would make the CLC route fast plus plenty of frieght paths, the money saved will make the trams scheme more feasible' the stopping trains spend a lot of time in the glazebrook loop, and I have stood inside a pacer for nearly 15 mins there, stoppers and express do not seem to work at all well together on that line

Perhaps Chassen Road and Flixton could be closed, but Urmston is a fairly major station. Would you also close Trafford Park and Humphrey Park in your quest?

You could close all the halts, and just have Warrington-Birchwood-Irlam-Urmstom-Deansgate. Or indeed just shut down the stopper completely and run fast from Warrington to Oxford Road.

 

[spargazer]

Yes I would, Urmston would be replaced by metrolink, I have never thought of Urmston as a major station, I lived there for 40 years and never used it once, metrolink link seems to reach passengers better than heavy rail.

 

[edwin_m]

Closing those three stations would make the CLC route fast plus plenty of frieght paths, the money saved will make the trams scheme more feasible' the stopping trains spend a lot of time in the glazebrook loop, and I have stood inside a pacer for nearly 15 mins there, stoppers and express do not seem to work at all well together on that line

There is zero scope for freight on the CLC west of Trafford. Westbound there is no WCML connection so the only place it can go is the Liverpool area. Eastwards it would have to get through the Castlefield-Piccadilly bottleneck where Trafford trains use all available freight paths.

The CLC has the problem of needing a fast service but also having many intermediate stations, most of which have reasonable passenger numbers. Hopefully in time it will be electrified and better-accelerating EMUs should ease the capacity situation somewhat.

 

[Ianno87]

Closing those three stations would make the CLC route fast plus plenty of frieght paths, the money saved will make the trams scheme more feasible' the stopping trains spend a lot of time in the glazebrook loop, and I have stood inside a pacer for nearly 15 mins there, stoppers and express do not seem to work at all well together on that line

Surely it would make more sense to close the quieter stations like Trafford Park and Humphrey Park to free up space in the timetable for fast trains, not close the busier ones for whom the alternative would be a very elongated tram ride to the city centre?

 

[spargazer]

I recollect frieghtliners passing during the night, where were they going?

 

[miami]

Surely it would make more sense to close the quieter stations like Trafford Park and Humphrey Park to free up space in the timetable for fast trains, not close the busier ones for whom the alternative would be a very elongated tram ride to the city centre?

Those stations (and chassen road) get 1tp2h.

On that line, I wonder if a station at Pomona, for MUFC, and intechange with the Trafford Centre and Eccles lines, would be frequented. A 10 car platform would allow Pendilinos to be extended there on match days like last night.

 

[edwin_m]

I recollect frieghtliners passing during the night, where were they going?

Like most of your posts on here, it would help if you gave more information - in this case where did you see them? If east of Trafford Park they would be going to or from there. If west then probably the same ones being diverted due to the route east being unavailable, with a long detour and a reversal in Liverpool.

 

[miami]

Like most of your posts on here, it would help if you gave more information - in this case where did you see them? If east of Trafford Park they would be going to or from there. If west then probably the same ones being diverted due to the route east being unavailable, with a long detour and a reversal in Liverpool.

There is a train in the timetable tomorrow

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H64732/2016/03/15/advanced

Edge Hill Gullet Sdgs 0454, through Warrington Central at 0533, Urmston at 0548, Oxford Road at 0607, then reversing departing 0614 back through Urmston at 0624, Warrington at 0646, Lime Street at 0729, then reversing to Earlestown, Victoria, Denton, Stockport, Altrincham, to Chester at 1030.

I have no idea why these paths exist.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Closing those three stations would make the CLC route fast plus plenty of frieght paths, the money saved will make the trams scheme more feasible' the stopping trains spend a lot of time in the glazebrook loop, and I have stood inside a pacer for nearly 15 mins there, stoppers and express do not seem to work at all well together on that line

I would be most interested if the matter of those three railway stations losing their heavy rail connections to the three destinations (to be replaced by your proposal) that I cited in my posting was something that could form part of the debate in the next council elections.

Look at the average time of journeys made by the existing heavy rail in the central Manchester core from those three stations and then compare them to the journey time that a Metrolink service that would use your route would actually take.
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Yes I would, Urmston would be replaced by metrolink, I have never thought of Urmston as a major station, I lived there for 40 years and never used it once, metrolink link seems to reach passengers better than heavy rail.

The 2014/5 Annual Rail Passenger Loadings figure shows a total of 302,000 for Urmston, so whilst you did not use that particular railway station, obviously there are many who actually do so.

 

[daodao]

You obviously don't know much about local buses in Trafford. Hale gets the following services to/from Altrincham:
14 half-hourly. First bus to Altrincham 09:05, last bus from Altrincham 14:10
21 roughly hourly. First bus to Altrincham 09:02, last bus from Altrincham 14:40
18 hourly. First bus to Altrincham 05:30, last bus from Altrincham 23:15
88 half-hourly. First bus to Altrincham 06:00, last bus from Altrincham 19:20
283 every 35-45 minutes. First bus to Altrincham 15:42, last bus from Altrincham 18:35
285 two early morning circular journeys only.

Only the 21 and 283/5 serve Hale Village, where the railway station is sited. The other routes run to Hale Barns, a different locality entirely and which is sufficiently far from Altrincham for there to be some demand for buses.

 

[northwichcat]

Only the 21 and 283/5 serve Hale Village, where the railway station is sited. The other routes run to Hale Barns, a different locality entirely and which is sufficiently far from Altrincham for there to be some demand for buses.

There's a bus stop which the 19 and 88 stop at which is 0.2 miles north of Hale station. That bus stop can't be in Hale Barnes, it's either Hale or Altrincham. Unless Hale Village is Ashley Road and the side roads off it only (which can't be right otherwise Hale's census population can't be 15,000), all the services I mentioned are of use to people who live in Hale. Also the 5 and 35 stop only a short walk from some houses in Hale. It's no wonder there isn't much demand for the 21, 283 and 285 given so many other buses stop only a short distance away, presumably TfGM subside those routes because they think 0.2 miles is too far for some pensioners to walk for a bus.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is a train in the timetable tomorrow

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H64732/2016/03/15/advanced

Edge Hill Gullet Sdgs 0454, through Warrington Central at 0533, Urmston at 0548, Oxford Road at 0607, then reversing departing 0614 back through Urmston at 0624, Warrington at 0646, Lime Street at 0729, then reversing to Earlestown, Victoria, Denton, Stockport, Altrincham, to Chester at 1030.

I have no idea why these paths exist.

Probably one of the ones where a freight company has secured paths and puts in a pretend service which never ones to keep their paths, in case they ever need the paths.

I notice there's one running today from Wigan to East Lancs Railway via Hartford, Knutsford and Denton, which seems an extremely long way around but presumably they didn't have a spare path via Victoria or Piccadilly so that was the only option!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes I would, Urmston would be replaced by metrolink, I have never thought of Urmston as a major station, I lived there for 40 years and never used it once, metrolink link seems to reach passengers better than heavy rail.

I would like to return once more to what you say above. If Metrolink were to replace heavy rail at Urmston, Chassen Road and Flixton stations, you would not then see Liverpool to Manchester trains being able to use the former CLC route.

Whilst admittedly the route could logically terminate at Warrington Central, what then is to become of Birchwood, Padgate, Glazebrook and Irlam stations, which all lie on the other side of the Manchester Ship Canal to Urmston and Flixton, as none of these four seem a logical termination point for trains from Liverpool?

 

[miami]

I would like to return once more to what you say above. If Metrolink were to replace heavy rail at Urmston, Chassen Road and Flixton stations, you would not then see Liverpool to Manchester trains being able to use the former CLC route.

Whilst admittedly the route could logically terminate at Warrington Central, what then is to become of Birchwood, Padgate, Glazebrook and Irlam stations, which all lie on the other side of the Manchester Ship Canal to Urmston and Flixton, as none of these four seem a logical termination point for trains from Liverpool?

I got the impression that this would be an extension from the Trafford Centre rather than reusing the C2C lines.

A more sensible extention would be from Port Salford to Irlam Proper, then Irlam Station. I don't think the old viaduct is in a salvagable condition to go further to Partitington, but extending from Port Salford to the northern edge of Irlam, even if you don't go for street running into the town centre, looks relativly easy

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A more sensible extention would be from Port Salford to Irlam Proper, then Irlam Station. I don't think the old viaduct is in a salvagable condition to go further to Partington, but extending from Port Salford to the northern edge of Irlam, even if you don't go for street running into the town centre, looks relativly easy

If that be so, what would be the envisaged passenger demand seem like from that extended stretch from Port Salford to the northern edge of Irlam? Where is the funding for this extension to an extension? Is it to be a funding addition onto the Port Salford addition from the Trafford Centre?

 

[northwichcat]

what would be the envisaged passenger demand seem like from that extended stretch from Port Sunlight to the northern edge of Irlam?

I don't think you meant Port Sunlight (Wirral)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't think you meant Port Sunlight (Wirral)

Indeed so, that latest faux pas now reads correctly...

 

[spargazer]

There is a train in the timetable tomorrow

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H64732/2016/03/15/advanced

Edge Hill Gullet Sdgs 0454, through Warrington Central at 0533, Urmston at 0548, Oxford Road at 0607, then reversing departing 0614 back through Urmston at 0624, Warrington at 0646, Lime Street at 0729, then reversing to Earlestown, Victoria, Denton, Stockport, Altrincham, to Chester at 1030.

I have no idea why these paths exist.

Did this run? and anyone know what it was ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Did this run? and anyone know what it was ?

I thought this was the Future Metrolink Expansion thread?

 

[spargazer]

Out of interest has any start date be given for the construction/build date of Metrolink line into the Trafford Centre (intu)?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Out of interest has any start date be given for the construction/build date of Metrolink line into the Trafford Centre (intu)?

Is it still awaiting the required approval from "on high"?

 

[spargazer]

Is it ITV or Peel Holding whose nod we await? sometimes this "dragging on" can result in a project being shelved and another one going ahead.

 

[snowball]

Is it ITV or Peel Holding whose nod we await? sometimes this "dragging on" can result in a project being shelved and another one going ahead.

Neither. It's the Secretary of State for Transport, who is considering the inspector's report on the public inquiry.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Neither. It's the Secretary of State for Transport, who is considering the inspector's report on the public inquiry.

Hopefully, not much chance of a certain Mr Whitby making an impassioned plea, having found "something" known to no-one else to complain about...:roll:

 

[snowball]

From a TfGM committee paper:

4. Trafford Park Line

4.1 On the basis of the DfT guidance and on the understanding that the Inspector’s Report reached the DfT in January 2016, it was assumed that the Secretary of State would announce his decision on the TPL application in July 2016. This is a significant time as Parliament rises in July and does not sit again until the Autumn. However, this is unlikely due to the number of Transport and Works Act Orders (TWAO) applications having grown as a result of recent investment in national infrastructure. Accordingly, Autumn would appear to be a more realistic time frame for the determination of the Trafford Park Line TWAO.

4.2 Following award of the TWAO construction could start during 2016 and be completed in 2020.

4.3 The Main Works contractor design is ongoing, in advance of awarding the main contract. This includes the development of functional specifications, and a planning design guide, in conjunction with Trafford Council Planning and highways departments. A further report will be brought back to GMCA following the finalisation of the delivery arrangements for the scheme; in advance of formally releasing the remaining funding for the scheme.

 

[Greybeard33]

From a TfGM committee paper:

See the June Metrolink Capital Update, which can be downloaded from https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/meetings/meeting/277/capital_projects_and_policy_sub-committee

 

[snowball]

Of course, one of the other TWAO applications competing for the minister's time is for the extra platforms at Piccadilly and alterations at Oxford Road.

 

[spargazer]

Is there any news of a start date? or is the project still on hold? or whatever. see item 204 above about this

 

[nerd]

Is there any news of a start date? or is the project still on hold? or whatever. see item 204 above about this

Nothing can be done, and no date can be announced, without a TWA Order.

These things take time; in its effects, and Order amounts to a Parliamentary Statute; so all possible legal implications have to be thoroughly explored.

 

[spargazer]

Nothing can be done, and no date can be announced, without a TWA Order.

These things take time; in its effects, and Order amounts to a Parliamentary Statute; so all possible legal implications have to be thoroughly explored.

so the start will be about 18 to 24 months away, the Metrolink to Manchester Airport was constructed from start to finish in less time.

 

[nerd]

so the start will be about 18 to 24 months away, the Metrolink to Manchester Airport was constructed from start to finish in less time.

Maybe so; but minsters and civil servants no doubt have had other things on their minds just recently.