Future Map Of London

[tbtc]

How do you see the future of London's railways?

There's certain things we know will happen (East London Line to Clapham/ Highbury, the core Crossrail service) and various things that "might" happen (or might not)

Looking at this map (http://www.flickr.com/photos/darrenlewis/1579718338/sizes/o/in/photostream/) there are some things I wasn't sure would happen:

* - Tramlink takes over the "Wimbledon Loop" from Thameslink/ FCC
* - Wimbledon to Epping "Chelsea/Hackney" line
* - East London/ Grenwich Waterfront Transit

Obviously not everything is guaranteed, and a few things are "wrong" or have since changed (there's no Blackfriars on Thameslink? The Moorgate Thameslink branch is there. The Circle line doesn't serve Hammersmith), but wondered what everyone thought about what's realistic in future and what might not work (a tram from Camden to Brixton?)...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

My God thats a good map. I know that something about Crystal Palace joining the Croydon Tram will go ahead should that idiot Livingstone regains the Mayor of London post...

 

[tbtc]

My God thats a good map

It's brilliant; I've spent most of the afternoon looking at it

Not sure if it'll all happen, of course, but really interesting

I know that something about Crystal Palace joining the Croydon Tram will go ahead should that idiot Livingstone regains the Mayor of London post...

Beckenham Junction to Crystal Palace being converted to tram would at least allow the Southern services to be extended further out of London, into Surrey, to be fair.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Bit confused by the Croydon Tramlink, I can't tell whether all the extensions are over heavy rail, or not! The West London Tram looks good (Earl's Court-Hayes (W London)-Ickenham), strange how that other one they wanted isn't in (I believe it was Surbiton-Brentford-Wembley - on a tram))

EDIT - here's the Surbiton tram thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_London_Orbital

The other one (Hayes/Earl's Court tram) was strongly opposed by all three Borough concerned - it was postponed (and made in doubt) August 2007 Good

 

[tbtc]

I'd never even heard of the West London Orbital - that looks a really good way of linking up various lines, so providing connections (without needing to go into central London).

With this and the Clapham - Whitechapel East London Line extension, the orbital is looking good

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'd never even heard of the West London Orbital - that looks a really good way of linking up various lines, so providing connections (without needing to go into central London).

Just one problem - it's a tram, it would look relatively slow (going off the route map on Wiki). I'm no bus expert, but surely one bus service must do Surbiton-Brentford and Brentford-Brent X quicker?

 

[tbtc]

I've used the 65 a few times for getting around western London, between main lines -
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/?r=65 - there may be existing bus services that do the routes you suggest.

A tram would work better I guess, as long as it can be segregated from other traffic in places.

 

[Any Permitted]

This map has been hanging around for years now, it's from pre-Boris and a lot of the schemes have been cancelled and were only pipe dreams when it was published.

Crossrail, ELL to Clapham Junction, Bakerloo to Watford Junction, DLR to Stratford Intl and Tramlink to Crystal Palace are the only schemes on there that I think have got serious potential.

 

[tbtc]

Bakerloo to Watford Junction

Is there any reason why this doesn't happen already? If it wasn't for South Hampstead/ Kilburn High Road, you could remove the Euston DC lines and free up a couple of platforms at Euston (plus make things a lot more flexible)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Is there any reason why this doesn't happen already? If it wasn't for South Hampstead/ Kilburn High Road,

That's a pretty big problem, I remember reading something, can't quite remember, to reinstate Primrose hill stn, have Watford going exclusively along there to Stratford, and culling the Queens Pk-Euston DC line. Strange.

you could remove the Euston DC lines and free up a couple of platforms at Euston (plus make things a lot more flexible)

It would only really help LM Desiros (VT stock cannot use it), and they seem to cope pretty OK atm

 

[Any Permitted]

Is there any reason why this doesn't happen already? If it wasn't for South Hampstead/ Kilburn High Road, you could remove the Euston DC lines and free up a couple of platforms at Euston (plus make things a lot more flexible)

That's the plan I think. They want to hand it over to Bakerloo-only op by 2026. I think the idea is to keep South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road open by re-opening the Primrose Hill link with the NLL.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ground_second.png/664px-Overground_second.png

http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/43

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Is there any reason why this doesn't happen already? If it wasn't for South Hampstead/ Kilburn High Road, you could remove the Euston DC lines and free up a couple of platforms at Euston (plus make things a lot more flexible)

That's the plan I think. They want to hand it over to Bakerloo-only op by 2026. I think the idea is to keep South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road open by re-opening the Primrose Hill link with the NLL.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ground_second.png/664px-Overground_second.png

http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/43

That's the stuff - I learnt have of the things I know before I knew this Forum existed, so can't remeber links/resources etc

 

[Aictos]

No 12 car trains for Farringdon passengers then!

 

[tripleseis]

That's the plan I think. They want to hand it over to Bakerloo-only op by 2026. I think the idea is to keep South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road open by re-opening the Primrose Hill link with the NLL.

One possibility would be to terminate Overground services at Queens Park, re-open Primrose Hill and have Bakerloo run all the way to Watford Jcn (along with the Met line extension). You could have Queens Park - Stratford services.


Wimbledon loop I would split between Tramlink and the Northern Line allowing it to run to Sutton as intended all those years ago.

 

[tbtc]

Wimbledon loop I would split between Tramlink and the Northern Line allowing it to run to Sutton as intended all those years ago.

Do you have any more information on the Northern Line running to Sutton?

It's an interesting idea, but I'd not heard anything about this before

 

[317653]

would there be a quicker way to get to the cambridge line from victoria other than the victoria line to tottenham hale

 

[LE Greys]

Now this is fascinating. I'm currently working on a project to backdate the Beck design to show development of the network (well into the 1920s now) and I'm not sure if I would be allowed to publish it. I've also had an idea for working the 1964 Beck design forwards into the present day (it's clearer than the Garbutt-based designs we use today). This might be interesting in terms of moving the idea into the future.

I'd be interested to know if there are any restrictions on publishing/posting designs based on the Diagram. It's certainly copyrighted, but is this 'fair use', 'derivative work' or what?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

This is useless, but Beck let the Tube use his design FREE, had he charged even minimal costs, he would have been a millionaire