Future Eurostar timetable

[Gadget88]

I worry with airlines being cut back and I read larger planes could be axed could we see a much reduced Eurostar timetable if people travel less? I hope not as I feel we need a full timetable for climate change we need a proper alternative to flying.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I worry with airlines being cut back and I read larger planes could be axed could we see a much reduced Eurostar timetable if people travel less? I hope not as I feel we need a full timetable for climate change we need a proper alternative to flying.

Eurostar is a commercial business. They will adjust their timetables in order to remain profitable. Any reductions in timetables will almost certainly be temporary due to reduced demand- this is just an economical and ecological decision.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I wonder if the new return Dutch service will still happen, I think it was meant to start at the end of this month, I am booked on it in June, I wonder if that trip will happen or be postponed. Stay well and safe everyone.

 

[StephenHunter]

People might be more inclined to travel by train than aircraft because it's more 'open' i.e. you get 'fresh' air come in.

 

[edwin_m]

There may be some quarantine restriction on travel between countries where the level of Covid is low and they are relying on track and trace, and those where it is higher and they are more reliant on managing hospitalization within their capacity. I think UK, France, Belgium and the Netherlands have fairly similar approaches (different from that of Germany), so it may be that travel between those countries remains fairly unrestricted once more general lockdowns cease. However if there is a pan-EU policy or even multiple policies sponsored by the EU for different groups of members, then I suspect Boris would refuse to have anything to do with them and travel to/from the UK might then be subject to quarantine. That would pretty much kill Euorstar travel for as long as it went on.

 

[Chester1]

People might be more inclined to travel by train than aircraft because it's more 'open' i.e. you get 'fresh' air come in.

I think you are right, despite air on a plane actually being cleaner (goes through a HEPA filter and is mixed with fresh air extracted from outside and heated)! Most people think its the same air the whole flight.

There may be some quarantine restriction on travel between countries where the level of Covid is low and they are relying on track and trace, and those where it is higher and they are more reliant on managing hospitalization within their capacity. I think UK, France, Belgium and the Netherlands have fairly similar approaches (different from that of Germany), so it may be that travel between those countries remains fairly unrestricted once more general lockdowns cease. However if there is a pan-EU policy or even multiple policies sponsored by the EU for different groups of members, then I suspect Boris would refuse to have anything to do with them and travel to/from the UK might then be subject to quarantine. That would pretty much kill Euorstar travel for as long as it went on.

I don't think he will simply because allowing British tourists to visit Europe is a useful bargaining chip. British tourists contribute 1.5% of Portugal's GDP for instance! I think the government would refuse to participate though if the price was a near total ban on travel from the rest of the world.

In terms of Eurostar and Amsterdam, I think they definitely will start direct return services. In a shrunken market it will help to fill Brussels services. I doubt the frequency will increase to 5tpd as planned next year, they might find 2tpd is sufficient for the rest of this year.

 

[StephenHunter]

The EU's closure of the Schengen Area border to external visitors, currently running to 15 May, does not extend to those from Ireland or the United Kingdom. However, the domestic border closures currently trump that. The EU Commission and EU Parliament want to see a coordinated lifting of the internal controls before opening the external borders to people. I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of declaration required that you don't have any Covid-19 symptoms and possibly even evidence of a recent negative test.

 

[edwin_m]

I think you are right, despite air on a plane actually being cleaner (goes through a HEPA filter and is mixed with fresh air extracted from outside and heated)! Most people think its the same air the whole flight.

The spacing between seats is a bit more on a train, and if someone nearby is coughing there are often vacant seats you can move to - or in extremis go and stand in the vestibule.

I don't think he will simply because allowing British tourists to visit Europe is a useful bargaining chip. British tourists contribute 1.5% of Portugal's GDP for instance! I think the government would refuse to participate though if the price was a near total ban on travel from the rest of the world.

Going by their behavior since 2016, I don't believe the extreme Brexiters that now run our government will let any consideration of disbenefit to the UK get in the way of their objective.

 

[D1062]

The EU's closure of the Schengen Area border to external visitors, currently running to 15 May, does not extend to those from Ireland or the United Kingdom. However, the domestic border closures currently trump that. The EU Commission and EU Parliament want to see a coordinated lifting of the internal controls before opening the external borders to people. I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of declaration required that you don't have any Covid-19 symptoms and possibly even evidence of a recent negative test.

A negative test only proves you were negative at time of testing, not necessarily your current status.

 

[StephenHunter]

Exactly, so you'd have to have it within a week or so of travel. It could be done at the station.

 

[edwin_m]

Exactly, so you'd have to have it within a week or so of travel. It could be done at the station.

If it gives you an instant result. As far as I'm aware the current ones have to be sent away to a lab. Apparently antibody tests are likely to be instant, but they aren't available yet.

 

[matt_world2004]

I can see the government being more willing to bail out Eurostar than the airlines. Keeping eurostar running continues to help finance the maintenance and operation of the Eurotunnel which is a key piece of international infrastructure .

It would also be easier to fold Eurostar into existing emergency measures for railways including public ownership or franchising it's operation out.

 

[StephenHunter]

The government that would be doing the bailing out is the French one who own a majority stake via SNCF... also there's the planned Thalys/Eurostar merger.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

The government that would be doing the bailing out is the French one who own a majority stake via SNCF... also there's the planned Thalys/Eurostar merger.

Are Thalys and Eurostar planning to merge, could be interesting?

 

[30907]

Are Thalys and Eurostar planning to merge, could be interesting?

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eurostar-thalys-merger.192742/

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eurostar-thalys-merger.192742/

Ok, thank you.

 

[Gadget88]

Anyone flying into the UK will have to self-isolate for 14 days

The move follows growing pressure for tighter border controls during the coronavirus crisis and would include UK citizens returning from abroad.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Would this also apply to trains? Also if they test every passenger this could put people off going on holiday atall? Perhaps the timetable won’t return to normal for some time

 

[EAD]

Anyone flying into the UK will have to self-isolate for 14 days

The move follows growing pressure for tighter border controls during the coronavirus crisis and would include UK citizens returning from abroad.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Would this also apply to trains? Also if they test every passenger this could put people off going on holiday atall? Perhaps the timetable won’t return to normal for some time

Yes it would apply to any entry into the country. Just a couple of points here. 1) This quarantine was the policy throughout February by the UK which kept a list of affected areas from which those entering the UK had to isolate from and those less affected where you had to look out for symptoms (though it relied on people following it). This was then quietly ripped up and everyone moved to simply isolate if you have symptoms. 2) Other countries have maintained this approach for arrivals to cover those who themselves are asymptomatic but may be carrying. This has also included internal movement (e.g. in Italy, Austria for declared areas) where say person has moved from where they work to be back with family, to limit the spread from more affected to less affected areas. In most of those countries, your details are logged on arrival and you declare you are isolating with details passed to the relevant local health authority.

 

[StephenHunter]

Suspect that might end up being changed to the requirement to produce a negative test result dated within a couple of days of arrival or get one pretty quickly when you do. The swabbing can be done pretty easily at a hotel; doing the actual test is the harder bit.

 

[Gadget88]

Suspect that might end up being changed to the requirement to produce a negative test result dated within a couple of days of arrival or get one pretty quickly when you do. The swabbing can be done pretty easily at a hotel; doing the actual test is the harder bit.

Yes my worry is not many will travel if there is testing and quarantining required just to visit Lille for the day from London!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes my worry is not many will travel if there is testing and quarantining required just to visit Lille for the day from London!

If there is a need for 14 day quarantine on re-entering the country, I will not travel abroad, no trip is important enough for that (unless I had family abroad, perhaps) - certainly not a holiday and I wouldn't agree to travel on business. There are plenty of places to go in the UK once lockdown is lifted.

 

[StephenHunter]

If there is a need for 14 day quarantine on re-entering the country, I will not travel abroad, no trip is important enough for that (unless I had family abroad, perhaps) - certainly not a holiday and I wouldn't agree to travel on business. There are plenty of places to go in the UK once lockdown is lifted.

Ditto on my part. I would have to activate my Plan B for September.

 

[Meerkat]

Do we know yet how long the time between infection and failing a test are?
ie there are four obvious options, and x is the number I am after....
1) quarantine in a hotel
2)trust people to self quarantine for 14 days (I have little faith in this)
3) test on entry and follow up in case one gets through and is symptomatic.
4) quarantine for x days then test when sure test will catch infections.

Personally I would go Australian now (quarantined in hotel), then a mix of 1 and 2 depending on where they are coming from, hoping to get testing capacity to a state where we can do 3 or 4.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have a feeling it's about 3 days from symptoms appearing, but I might be wrong.

I'd agree (2) is unworkable - it has to be 100% containment to work, so only a "luxury prison" style approach will work, like the initial cruise-ship passengers who were returned. (Did I mention I loosely know one of the original 12? )

(4) is probably the only one that will be effectively impenetrable, and to work it has to be. Shame we didn't do that in the first place and it'd never have got in!

 

[Meerkat]

4) is probably the only one that will be effectively impenetrable, and to work it has to be. Shame we didn't do that in the first place and it'd never have got in!

We are still nowhere near having that many tests available!

 

[edwin_m]

At the moment the results for antigen tests seem to be taking at least a day to come back. So people would probably have to quarantine until their result came back, then potentially for 7 days if positive.

If a Eurostar trip included a free night in the St Pancras Grand, maybe people would be tempted

 

[Meerkat]

At the moment the results for antigen tests seem to be taking at least a day to come back. So people would probably have to quarantine until their result came back, then potentially for 7 days if positive.

If a Eurostar trip included a free night in the St Pancras Grand, maybe people would be tempted

It wouldn’t be a free night!
If you did temperature checks at the same time would the fail rate be low enough that you rely on people to self quarantine for a day as long as they gave a phone number and location? The concern would be if they used public transport to get there.....(but then they could have infected people on the plane/train they arrived on....)
The travel industry really needs tests they can do on check in, so fails don’t travel in the first place.
Does the Test actually take a day or is that just the logistics of getting to the lab and back (ie can you have a lab at the airport?!)
I guess the first question is whether there is any prospect of having enough test kits to test all arrivals......or even just those who fail a temperature check?

 

[StephenHunter]

I have a feeling it's about 3 days from symptoms appearing, but I might be wrong.

I'd agree (2) is unworkable - it has to be 100% containment to work, so only a "luxury prison" style approach will work, like the initial cruise-ship passengers who were returned. (Did I mention I loosely know one of the original 12? )

(4) is probably the only one that will be effectively impenetrable, and to work it has to be. Shame we didn't do that in the first place and it'd never have got in!

There were plenty of flights from Wuhan to the UK before the Chinese lockdown. Also, we didn't know about asymptomatic spread...

The swab is pretty quick; the logistics are getting to the lab then running the test. You can probably set up a testing machine at the airport.

Anyway, Czechia is requiring you to provide a negative test before entry to the country, basically: file:///C:/Users/adamc/Downloads/Conditions_for_entry_to_CZ_and_quarantine_measures_from_April_27th_2020_-_02200426.pdf Getting one a day or two before departure from a testing centre isn't unfeasible.

 

[Meerkat]

Also, we didn't know about asymptomatic spread...

We still don’t know do we? I have read they think it has happened, but it sounded like the cases were few enough to possibly be errors, and it still could be very unlikely.

 

[Gadget88]

So where do we go from here? France only allowing essential travel at the moment. Only one train per day what happens next? How long before we return to normal?